Curse

K Y O · Aug 29, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally posted by K Y O

Who cares about which spike is more OP.

Do i have to quote myself? Read carefully and don't be ignorant. Don't assume that I'm claiming there is no such thing as overpoweredness, broken mechanics, and such, because thats not what im saying at all. I said who cares about which build is more OP. And by that I mean each why bother arguing which spike is harder to beat / counter. The point is that it CAN be countered successfully by altering your play style.

If you can't then oh well. Blame Build Wars.

Killed u man · Aug 29, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Y O

The point is that it CAN be countered successfully by altering your play style.

If you can't then oh well. Blame Build Wars.

So Could ritspike... So Could IWAY.... So could Eurospike... So could SoMW...

Look, I see your point. And its true, Im NOT saying it isnt. BUT the tools needed TO counter it, force you to change your intire build around.

Bloodspike, Ritspike and other spikes got nerfed, and they only need 2 skills to be countered:

[Spirit Bond] ([Infuse Health]) and [Cry of Frustration] -Every spike counter

Rspike needs ALOT more to be countered... Heck, you have to rely on gimmick shit such as:

-FC snare
-Magebane Ranger -Magebane is everything a Ranger SHOULDN'T be-
-...

Yes, I CAN run 8 copies of Shields Up, 3 Cry of Frustration, a FC steam, but that prooves my intire point:

The build is OP, and simply by changing playstyle, U wont beat it. U need full skill bar, hard counters, just to stand a chance.And even then, [Distracting Shot], [savage shot] and [punishing shot] > hard counters...

shoogi · Aug 30, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

So Could ritspike... So Could IWAY.... So could Eurospike... So could SoMW...

Look, I see your point. And its true, Im NOT saying it isnt. BUT the tools needed TO counter it, force you to change your intire build around.

Bloodspike, Ritspike and other spikes got nerfed, and they only need 2 skills to be countered:

[Spirit Bond] ([Infuse Health]) and [Cry of Frustration] -Every spike counter

Rspike needs ALOT more to be countered... Heck, you have to rely on gimmick shit such as:

-FC snare
-Magebane Ranger -Magebane is everything a Ranger SHOULDN'T be-
-...

Yes, I CAN run 8 copies of Shields Up, 3 Cry of Frustration, a FC steam, but that prooves my intire point:

The build is OP, and simply by changing playstyle, U wont beat it. U need full skill bar, hard counters, just to stand a chance.And even then, [Distracting Shot], [savage shot] and [punishing shot] > hard counters...

-So you didn't understand what he said. He said rspike can be countered without buildwarsing if you know how to play against it.
-Also, fc snare and mb ranger can't be viewed as 'gimmick shit' and anti-rspike buildwars because they will help you against any team you face.
-Ritspike was a hell lot more overpowered than the current rspike.
-"magebane is everything a ranger shouldn't be"- lol? so what should rangers be? thumpers? spikers that hit 1-2 when they hear "one" on vent? Magebane is exactly what rangers should be. If a skill that requires some brain to use is a broken skill that shouldn't see play, then I don't know what to say to you.
-Borat, not everyone that disagrees with something you say is a lame rspiker protecting his only fame farm build.

Killed u man · Aug 30, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

-So you didn't understand what he said. He said rspike can be countered without buildwarsing if you know how to play against it.
-Also, fc snare and mb ranger can't be viewed as 'gimmick shit' and anti-rspike buildwars because they will help you against any team you face.
-Ritspike was a hell lot more overpowered than the current rspike.
-"magebane is everything a ranger shouldn't be"- lol? so what should rangers be? thumpers? spikers that hit 1-2 when they hear "one" on vent? Magebane is exactly what rangers should be. If a skill that requires some brain to use is a broken skill that shouldn't see play, then I don't know what to say to you.
-Borat, not everyone that disagrees with something you say is a lame rspiker protecting his only fame farm build.

-It can NOT be countered, not build warsing... The EVERY arguement of this thread is: Dont run stupid builds then, and U wont get rolled by Rspike.

-FC snare is a gimmick.

-HOW was ritspike more OP, what criteria do you use? For common sence sake: Rspike could COMPETE at the Ritspike days. If Rspike could actually beat ritspike, doesnt it make it more/just as powerfull?
Rspike USED to have alot of counter builds. All of these builds are nerfed, and nothing can really stop a good rspike, but RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO-ups on their side.

-Magebane cant be blocked. nuff said.

-Disagreeing with me is fine, its a discussion forum after all. By saying: Stop sucking, Rspike isnt OP, you're just bad, Then yeah, its kinda obvious this person himself is an rspiker who cant find a valid arguement to proof rspike isn't OP, but calling me a bad ritspiker...

shoogi · Aug 30, 2008, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

-It can NOT be countered, not build warsing... The EVERY arguement of this thread is: Dont run stupid builds then, and U wont get rolled by Rspike.

-FC snare is a gimmick.

-HOW was ritspike more OP, what criteria do you use? For common sence sake: Rspike could COMPETE at the Ritspike days. If Rspike could actually beat ritspike, doesnt it make it more/just as powerfull?
Rspike USED to have alot of counter builds. All of these builds are nerfed, and nothing can really stop a good rspike, but RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO-ups on their side.

-Magebane cant be blocked. nuff said.

-Disagreeing with me is fine, its a discussion forum after all. By saying: Stop sucking, Rspike isnt OP, you're just bad, Then yeah, its kinda obvious this person himself is an rspiker who cant find a valid arguement to proof rspike isn't OP, but calling me a bad ritspiker...

-So you are basically saying that when you are up against a good rspike, if your build doesn't have enough answers to rspike then you can already /resign. There are certain tactics and ways to play against rspike. Don't let them take high elevation. Use walls. Keep FW down. etc. I agree that rspike needs a nerf but there are ways to play against it.

-Define gimmick then. I define gimmick as a build that isn't as effective but is popular because it is considerably easier to play than other builds that are meant for the same purpose, therefore embraced by bad players and pugs that can't play those other builds with success. In other words, at the hands of a skilled player the non-gimmick will be much more effective than the gimmick, and at the hands of a poor player the gimmick will be much more effective than the non-gimmick.
FC snare doesn't suit my definition. Fc snare requires brain to play, and you almost never see it on low ranked pugs. Plus, there is no other build that can snare and blind effectively. If fc snare suits your definition of gimmick then I'd like to hear it.

-At the ritspike days about 75% of the hoh matches had at least 2 ritspikes in them. That is not the situation with rspike today, hoh is still pretty much dominated by balanced builds.
And rspike wouldn't stand a chance against the old ritspike. With vital every rit had 800+ health, so the rspike barely kills. On the other hand, ritspike did so much damage that even a successful infuse wasn't enough to keep the target alive. Their spike would easily kill through ranger armor too.

-Back to what I said about gimmicks. At the hands of a poor player, Magebane is a waste of a team member. When a good player goes mb, it is very powerful. This is the perfect anti-gimmick, and such builds should be promoted in skill balances.

-I definitely agree with you. Those responding to your posts with "lol this is said by a ritspiker" don't worth your attention. But when someone writes a long post adressing things you say and your answer is tl;dr followed by insults to the person it derails the thread.

Cale Roughstar · Aug 30, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Bloodspike, Ritspike and other spikes got nerfed, and they only need 2 skills to be countered:

[Spirit Bond] ([Infuse Health]) and [Cry of Frustration] -Every spike counter

Rspike needs ALOT more to be countered... Heck, you have to rely on gimmick shit such as:

-FC snare
-Magebane Ranger

Mkkkkayyy, I am not quite sure that I follow your logic there. Why does ranger spike need MORE counters than any other spike? Cry of Frustration will stop pretty much any spike out there, infuse can catch non-clean spikes, spirit bond will prot incoming spikes. The two monk skills are standard on every team with monks, and Cry is standard on pretty much every mesmer bar. To bring these three skills (as you say) counters every spike, then you go on to contradict yourself by saying that r-spike needs more. Please explain.

Quote:

gimmick shit such as:

-FC snare
-Magebane Ranger -Magebane is everything a Ranger SHOULDN'T be-

I am sure that Izzy is rolling his face across his keyboard after that one.

FC snare may be newly popular and highly effective, but so are backbreaker sins etc... It is simply a new and cleaver usage of two previously uncombined strengths. I agree with shoogi's definition of gimmicks, R/D's were gimmicks, FC snares are not.

Quote:

-Magebane is everything a Ranger SHOULDN'T be-

lolwut?

Quote:

-Magebane cant be blocked. nuff said.

Neither can ANY mesmer interrupts.

Magebane rangers are one of the highpoints in the Rangers long and somewhat spotted career. They excel in damage, conditions, field wide interrupts, and a whole bunch of other super things. To call them gimmicky after previously blasting R-spike rangers as mindless 1-2-3 drones, I figured you would embrace (what I think everyone can agree is) a highly skillful ranger.

Killed u man · Aug 30, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I stopped bothering to read Ciric's posts, as he has no clue what hes talking about.

Gimmick;

gim·mick (gmk)
n.
1.
a. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.
b. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget.

For me, it's a build that Anet did not have in mind when they created this game/skill. It can also be a build based around a redicilous skill ([Magebane]).

The intire point of a Ranger is skillfull play -> reward. Magebane takes all that and throws it out the window.
Too bad to interrupt Aegis? Np, run Magebane.
Too bad to interrupt Guardian? Np, run Magebane.
Too bad to interrupt Weapon of Warding? Np, run Magebane.
...

Cry stops every spike, but Rspike can spike stuff down with 2 Rangers anyways, aswell as the fact they can spike every 5-6 seconds.

Mesmers come at a cost tough: Energy -No lolexpertise-, squishies and no defence. -Rip [Distortion]-

Rspike now is a prominent Ritspike was back in the day.

I ran ritspike alot, heck I recently, for old times sake, ran a ritspike with Vital Weapon (Its still the same ammount of health gain), Protective was Kaloei and Hareld's insignia.

So were dealing with Rits here with:

60 + 10 (herald) + 24 (Kaolei)=

94 Armor here and about 662 hp. (480 - 75 + 50 +10 + 10) Sup Chan, Sup Vig, HP runes.

They spiked us loose through it, WITHOUT cracked armor... (Clean)

Cale Roughstar · Aug 30, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Gimmick;

gim·mick (gmk)
n.
1.
a. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.
b. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget.

For me, it's a build that Anet did not have in mind when they created this game/skill. It can also be a build based around a redicilous skill ([Magebane]).

You seem very certain that Anet had particular plans in mind when they designed every skill/profession. You seem to fear creative and unusual combinations of skills and professions, FC snare for example, and you label them as gimmicks.

One of the best things about Guild Wars is the fluidity with which the game changes and flows, new builds come to the forefront, are countered and then recede back to the depths from which they came.

To declare that a skill usage that Anet did not have in mind when the skill was designed is a gimmick is just absurd. There are a rediculous number of skills in this game, and to think that they thought of every single possible combination is absurd.

Take for example, your once proudly used Backbreaker Sin. To say that Anet expected THAT to come up would be unrealistic, and Backbreaker Sin is therefore, by your definition "gimmick shit".

I would also say that by your very own definition, Magebane is not a gimmick. It is quite obviously intended to be exactly what it it: a very potent interrupt. I find your labelling it as a skill for n00bz to be silly. Last I checked, mesmer interrupts go through blocks and Magebane simply levels the playing field. While it has the benefit of damage over most other mesmer interrupts, it loses in activation and flight time. To expect all blocking skills such as Guardian to be interrupted at all times so all interrupts may go through is again, absurd. Magebane is a GOOD skill, after all it IS an Elite.

Quote:

So were dealing with Rits here with:

60 + 10 (herald) + 24 (Kaolei)=

94 Armor here and about 662 hp. (480 - 75 + 50 +10 + 10) Sup Chan, Sup Vig, HP runes.

They spiked us loose through it, WITHOUT cracked armor... (Clean)

Deep Wound is hardly OP'd is it? Or is it the hornbows? Or is the combination overpowered? Come on, if any spike can't kill high armoured targets that spike goes the way of the dodo.

TogoTheTiger · Aug 30, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I stopped bothering to read Ciric's posts, as he has no clue what hes talking about.

Gimmick;

gim·mick (gmk)
n.
1.
a. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.
b. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So were dealing with Rits here with:

60 + 10 (herald) + 24 (Kaolei)=

94 Armor here and about 662 hp. (480 - 75 + 50 +10 + 10) Sup Chan, Sup Vig, HP runes.

They spiked us loose through it, WITHOUT cracked armor... (Clean)

1) Gimmick defined by the dictionary has absolutely nothing to do with online gaming, and you most likely went through many different dictionaries to find the one that best fit your opinion. That exact definition is superannuated.

2)You faced one clean rspike, and now you believe that it will beat every ritspike. Maybe your infuser lagged. Maybe they had no lag on vent. Maybe you had lag on YOUR vent. Any number of this can change one match in HA. If your infuser lags for 1 second, and thats the second that they spike the DP'd prot, you will most likely end up losing that match. Nice try to be quantitative, but you never adjusted for variables.

Killed u man · Aug 30, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Yes, I do believe BB is a gimmick. I never said it wasn't, nor am I trying to defend it.

The second you start combing skills for certain combo's (synergizing), 95% of the time you'll end up with an OP gimmick:

-R/D
-FC Air Spike, Kappa Spike
-Crit XX
-Glyph Imo + Steam (Which, according to skill discriptions SHOULDN'T EVEN WORK, so this can be defined as a glitch)
-...

Yes, Magebane is a GOOD skill, I never said it wasn't. (Comprehensive Reading) BUT, and I will stop arguing after this, if you can't see how Magebane Shot throws any form of battlefiel awareness for the Ranger out of the window, as he has a spammable, disabling AND unblockable interrupt, you shouldn't come here posting all knowing what game balance is.

Yes, I faced 1 clean Rspike. Cuz 'skill' makes arrows crit, right? For trying to be an "intelligent" poster, common sense clearly needs some reworking in your brain...

Chaos Rofl Copter · Aug 31, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The build is OP, and simply by changing playstyle, U wont beat it. U need full skill bar, hard counters, just to stand a chance.And even then, [Distracting Shot], [savage shot] and [punishing shot] > hard counters...

=|

So, last time I lost to rspike was on cap points >.>... because of this one skill and my amazing ability to see where every arrow is flying on the map...

[Spirit Bond]...

Not to say your wrong or anything... even though you are half wrong.. but changing playstyles can help tons... you dont need to run some super defence-shutdown all their shit way to beat rspike, just like... prot.

Cale Roughstar · Aug 31, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The second you start combing skills for certain combo's (synergizing), 95% of the time you'll end up with an OP gimmick:

Are you reading your own posts? Synergizing is OP? Thinking outside the box is OP? Man...

And if Magebane, as the unblockable, spammable, battlefield awareness removing noob skill it seems to be, we should nerf [Psychic Distraction] as well right?

Any interrupting character who is worth any salt at all will have a decent level of battlefield awareness because unless they are camping one character (they probably wouldnt be worth their salt then) they will have more than one interrupting responsability. He will have to go after Aegis, Sig of Humility, Attunements, resses, DA, there is a huge amount of skills that need to be interrupted at any time, always on different characters, and it will take at least SOME rudamentary battlefield awareness to interrupt those. The fact that he is running the ranger version of PD makes no difference.

Dismiss the Cynic · Aug 31, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

If ppl fail to see why the current fastcast-snare is overpowered, they're either bad at gw or utterly retarded. Just one quick hint here: Shutdown = One of the most essential gamemechanics.

Imho it's quite amusing how some tombsscrubs brag around how easy preprotting against rspike is if some of the few remaining top notch monks in this game dont seem capable of doing it.

Izu · Aug 31, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dismiss the Cynic

If ppl fail to see why the current fastcast-snare is overpowered, they're either bad at gw or utterly retarded. Just one quick hint here: Shutdown = One of the most essential gamemechanics.

Imho it's quite amusing how some tombsscrubs brag around how easy preprotting against rspike is if some of the few remaining top notch monks in this game dont seem capable of doing it.

Then maybe those "Top Notch" Monks aren't so notched at the top

. I believe that most of the best monks in the game moved on to something else long ago.

Honestly, if you have a 20" monitor you can see arrows flying to their intended target..... slow reflexes and lag seem to be the only deciding factors at that point.

Killed u man · Aug 31, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

So in other words, its not the Rspike that is overpowered, its just the fact that rawr, mkay, and other top guild's suck.

I mean, Its not like these Monks have had 3 years experience, or that they know HOW to monk, they just suck, because they all seemed to whipe against Rspike...

If U cant see how OP rspike is, especially after this mAT, then U rly should start concidering the possibility you ARE an Rspike fanboi...

Dismiss the Cynic · Aug 31, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izu

Honestly, if you have a 20" monitor you can see arrows flying to their intended target..... slow reflexes and lag seem to be the only deciding factors at that point.

If it is that easy i really dont get while ppl still die vs rspike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

If U cant see how OP rspike is, especially after this mAT, then U rly should start concidering the possibility you ARE an Rspike fanboi...

The fact that its a fully ranged spike makes it atleast as imbalanced as every pure casterspike. But i dunno what this mat has to do with the topic, since there wasnt any guild being somewhat succesful at running rspike.

Cale Roughstar · Aug 31, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

U rly should start concidering the possibility you ARE an Rspike fanboi...

Have I ever said that I am not?

Quote:

So in other words, its not the Rspike that is overpowered, its just the fact that rawr, mkay, and other top guild's suck.

Apples to oranges good sir, apples to oranges. Yes they may both be fruit, but they are quite different. I would assume that most people know that GvG and HA are totally different ballgames. Guilds like GANK, Ugly and TV seem to have no trouble wasting an r-spike. Sure guilds like rawr, mkay and sup will do well in halls. They have very good players who know how to play the game with skill like few others, but HA is not their primary focus, GvG is and therefore their skillset is not exactly the one required to hold halls all day. GANK has many of the best HA'ers around who spend all day HA'ing so their skillset is tailored specifically for HA. But then when they go to test their luck in GvG, they are not exactly top10 material.

Quote:

If U cant see how OP rspike is, especially after this mAT

I would hardly say that r-spike is the GvG meta and ripping things up.

Fishmonger · Aug 31, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

For me, it's a build that Anet did not have in mind when they created this game/skill. It can also be a build based around a redicilous skill ([Magebane]).

It's okay, I hate getting interrupted too

Killed u man · Aug 31, 2008, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

I would hardly say that r-spike is the GvG meta and ripping things up.

Enought to kick rawr, who had 6 wins in play-offs as I recall correctly, out the mAT...

Enough to NEARLY kick Don out of the mAT, if it wasn't for the fact that they had 2-3 people pretty much going afk during the match. (They had the game, but then decided to split 1 Ranger spiker off instead of a healer. In other words, they pretty much gave a won game away, and [mkay] took this chance for a straight push and some nice time kills)

I'm not comparing Apples to oranges, I'm comparing Rspike to Rspike.

Bowdamage spikes way to high, and GvG'ers are coming closer and closer to realizing that.

I'm pretty sure more than 50% of the guilds had some form of Machinegun Ranger.

And those are still bad people running it. I won't even start on what would happen if I get 8 people together, and start farming champs with Rspike... (As in, a good caller -strat wise-)

In HA, Rspike, whilst a different build, is at the same level of OP-ness as in GvG. They got more dshots, more savage shots, more snares, more spiking power AND more holding power than the opposite teams...

shoogi · Aug 31, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Are you actullay putting Magebane rangers on the same level with Iway wars, R/Ds and N/Rts?
Do you even read what you're posting?