Curse

Killed u man · Aug 19, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

@ noxify, You tell me how many balanced teams you see in halls that don't have either a third monk, a n/rt support, or a rt/ support. The last 2 usually have a spike support or some other form of contributing to offense. Nevertheless they will pretty much always have WoW, kaolai, and a support heal or two. running 3 monk or 2 monk + extra heals etc on a midline is definitly not unique to rspike, its widely used now in the meta with all the damage being flung around.

If by "good balanced" you mean the ones who hold, then you mostly see them running 3 monks at dead hours. And btw, rspike uses 5-6 people as a part of their spike. 3r, 1p, 1 rt, or 4r, 1p, 1n, or variations thereof.

@ ate, i was specifically replying to ciric's post, that was commenting on borat's build, which didn't have anthem of guidance. gg on not reading. if you had anthem of guidance, then duh you would use it to force interrupts through. If you don't have it or a spell interrupt, then you'd better be playing with that in mind, you had better get rid of wow/guardian so you can interrupt the ghostly.

That doesn't change the fact that the damage is still commnig from 3 rangers...

Saying the damage comes from the Rit, or the para (besides DW) is bs, as it are the 3 RANGERS that shoot the arrows...

It's not a question of "How many people do you need to stack up the damage", it's "How many people join in the 3-2-1-part"...

And that is only 3/4 Rangers...

This has some advantages, and disadvantages. The spike will be ALOT cleaner than any other spike that requires more people to join in. (Ritspike, bloodspike all required 8 people to spike on time)
It also means that there is less overal chance of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO-up. (Only 2 other people can RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up by walking into Eruption e.g)
On top of that, skills such as Cry of Frustration become easy avoidable, as it is easier to spread out 3 people, than it is to do with 8...
And then there is the fact that there is 5 characters who can focus on defence whereas bloodspike AND ritspike pretty much had to take it up the A when they spiked. (Rift = 2 seconds of the rits not benig able to heal)

On the counterpart, there is offcourse only 3 rangers you need to worry about to "shutdown".
Shutting down 1 ranger already saved U 30% of the spike (90% rangers, 10 % dw). Too bad rspike can easily kill with 2 rangers with a few crits + DW.

It obviously has advantages and disadvantages, but this doesn't change the fact that the more you can compress your damage to fewer characters, the "cleaner" the spike, and thus the "better" it becomes...

If you were to have 1 Ranger doing the 800 damage, the spike would always be 100% clean, aswell as the fact your Monks only have to worry about keeping 1 character clean.

As for interrupting the Ghostly:

Usually you only need 1 interrupt to go through, to cap before the enemy Ghostly. (If you have song up, you only need 1 extra second to cap before they do orso)
Thus having 3 rangers do Dshot + Savage shot on the Ghostly straight after enemy ghostly dies (Even if you don't have savage, 3 dshots is still a good chance), you should still have a good shot at hitting through.
And even if this doesn't happen, you should have a Song up anyways, and thus be capping at "the same time", so it still becomes a 50% draw to whoever caps...

Math:

50% Block x 50% Block = 75% of Blocking
Thus 3 Arrows should pretty much give U 58%-ish chance of hitting through. (From top of my head, could be wrong)

Snow Bunny · Aug 19, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

Unless you have a hell of a spike, nobody targets the warrior on another team first because withougt cracked armor its too much to take down.

Use warriors then.

blackknight1337 · Aug 19, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

That doesn't change the fact that the damage is still commnig from 3 rangers...

Saying the damage comes from the Rit, or the para (besides DW) is bs, as it are the 3 RANGERS that shoot the arrows...

It's not a question of "How many people do you need to stack up the damage", it's "How many people join in the 3-2-1-part"...

And that is only 3/4 Rangers...

As for interrupting the Ghostly:

Usually you only need 1 interrupt to go through, to cap before the enemy Ghostly. (If you have song up, you only need 1 extra second to cap before they do orso)
Thus having 3 rangers do Dshot + Savage shot on the Ghostly straight after enemy ghostly dies (Even if you don't have savage, 3 dshots is still a good chance), you should still have a good shot at hitting through.
And even if this doesn't happen, you should have a Song up anyways, and thus be capping at "the same time", so it still becomes a 50% draw to whoever caps...

Math:

50% Block x 50% Block = 75% of Blocking
Thus 3 Arrows should pretty much give U 58%-ish chance of hitting through. (From top of my head, could be wrong)

And stats from that other thread show that shutting down the rit (getting rid of brutal + sundering) knock more damage off the spike then shutting down a ranger (could be wrong, i haven't looked at it recently). Considering that no sundering=no cracked armor..pretty sure on the damage thing. And if the rit is so bad for your melee with water trident, then PD it....

Any way you put it, the rit and para both add damage to the spike. Having your mesmer on the rit (yes he has no diversion, but still has his cry/pd, or cry/pb) and your warrior dchop forked arrows/glass arrows whenever possible is gonna cut a lot off the spikes. Once the rspike can't kill, then you can start moving on the offensive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying rspike is fine...I've made multiple posts on each of the rspike threads that say it should be changed.

And for the ghost. Yeah you can just volley your interrupts. And heaven forbid they have song up already....LOL. So 2 good teams, yeah its just 50/50 who gets capped. Though dshotting WoW or guardian is nice for your offense reguardless.

Killed u man · Aug 19, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Well no, I barely get beaten by Rspike myself. (Even when they have major build advantage, pretty much vs every other spike)

But with balance (Yes I do play that every now and then) I steamroll right through them (Only the good Rspikes, VM and old [TV] members take longer than 3 minutes to kill, but still is usually flawless). Nonetheless, the amount of Rspikes, + The fact that in 3 way HoH, the focus (of the enemey teams) is always on the Monks and not on the Rangers, aswell as the fact they have Major build advantage on every map.

Once again:

KoTH: Hyper defense, bad rspikes spike stuff down, good rspike will stop spiking whilst holding, and dshot/savage EVERY mesmer/ele in the game. (A mesmer CANNOT shutdown with only PD, it's the shames and Diversions that hurt)

Cap Points: Ranger elemental armor, Vital against nuke-spikes (fire damage), DA and 3 Monks for nice ball-up defence.

Relic Run: Outclasses every other build by miles. Hexbreaker Runnners, Dual Foes, possible Pin Down on third ranger.
Caller can say back and interrupt any enemy snares. (Dhshot + savage wus gud)

Ate of DK · Aug 20, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Ehm, come again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

@ ate, i was specifically replying to ciric's post, that was commenting on borat's build, which didn't have anthem of guidance. gg on not reading. if you had anthem of guidance, then duh you would use it to force interrupts through. If you don't have it or a spell interrupt, then you'd better be playing with that in mind, you had better get rid of wow/guardian so you can interrupt the ghostly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Did you ever play R-spike, I think you didn't from what you write. You overestimate the R-spikes co-ordination. Even if the rangers are very good interrupters it's extremely hard.

In the situation you posted;
You expect that the rangers interrupt skills from the NON-holding team to avoid it from capping when the holding teams ghost falls? NON-holding I write? Yes, because when the holding ghost falls, the other team should have some prots on their ghost allready because they weren't being attacked much.

In your example you don't use Anthem of Guidance. Otherwise the R-spike doesn't need to interrupt all those spells and go directly on the song + ghost. Which is much easier to co-ordinate.

You failed to understand my post. Thanks for trying to read.

Ate of DK · Aug 20, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Only the good Rspikes, VM and old [TV] members take longer than 3 minutes to kill, but still is usually flawless

I am curious... When was the old [TV]?

I never lost a single battle against you. (wohoo, now I'm cool

)
Maybe I wasn't there and you beat up some guildies. We're have 40+ members so it could be.

I was even shocked that you still wrote "gg" last time when we kicked you out of the halls. Unfortunatly I have a new computer and all my precious screenshots are lost.

But that situation must have been 2 months ago, we haven't touched R-spike as a Guildteam since the summer vacation started. We prefer to abuse fast-cast Me/E with glyph of immolation and steam now.

Killed u man · Aug 20, 2008, 05:03 AM // 05:03

[TV] pretty much ended a bit after Rspike became meta. (I know some of you guys and the guild is still around, but you guys barely play)

I have NEVER lost to rspike with balanced yet. Beating me, whilst running a spike build, while you're running rspike is like saying you beat someone from the special olympics on the 100M sprint...

Rspike simply is the best spike build (You can take out3 enemy spikers, this kills ANY ritspike, bloodspike, xxx"spike)

If you can't die (you even have Vitals, so it's unlikely they can kill someone with 3 players down, and when U have 800+ HP), you can only win...

And even then, I'm pretty sure I beat the old [TV] with bloodspike couple of times. (Wall abusing ftw)

I only say GG when it was a Good Game. (I'm weird, huh?)
Loosing to some random guild, because I got ganked by some random %$*£/ doesn't really deserve a "gg", as I fail to see what the "good" part about getting ganked is.

Ate of DK · Aug 20, 2008, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

[TV] pretty much ended a bit after Rspike became meta. (I know some of you guys and the guild is still around, but you guys barely play)

...

I only say GG when it was a Good Game. (I'm weird, huh?)
Loosing to some random guild, because I got ganked by some random %$*£/ doesn't really deserve a "gg", as I fail to see what the "good" part about getting ganked is.

The PvP players of [TV] that are currently active play every day. But they are in alliance teams or friendslist teams. We haven't had much guildteams lately, that's true.

Yes, I was kind of suprised that you wrote "gg" because you post so much on R-spike. But the reason why you said it is the good one. I rarely have the chance to write "gg" in halls.

Shadowspawn X · Aug 20, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I haven't HA'd this year at all. But I have a pvp ready ranger can someone post the ranger spike build variations so I can make a group and get in on the fun this double weekend? Thanks. Dont know if I wanna run rspike or balanced to counter but appreciate the info.

imnotyourmother · Aug 21, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Yeper Interupt them and psyfon the life out of dem

Skyros · Aug 21, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...ed_Arrow_Spike

Here's another one that i haven seen alot of yet but with this weekend your bound to see it: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...y_Ranger_Spike

and then theres another one with punishing shot as an elite with orders and 4 rangers etc etc etc.

NoXiFy · Aug 21, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

I love how some people still don't agree that this is OP'd. After all the people supporting that it is. Thanks Borat.

Snow Bunny · Aug 21, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

I love how some people still don't agree that this is OP'd. After all the people supporting that it is. Thanks Borat.

You also made a thread about how SF spike is overpowered.

Apparently you need to either learn to kill stuff, monk stuff, or both.

Killed u man · Aug 22, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You also made a thread about how SF spike is overpowered.

Apparently you need to either learn to kill stuff, monk stuff, or both.

How is a 2 second recharge, Pretty much indefinatly spammable (Gole, Fire attune + Glowing gaze), NEARBY AoE, 106 damage skill not OP?

SF defies every "law" of game balance, and the only reason why it's underplayed, is because most people are /copy newbs.

You got 6 eles, so you got MORE THAN ENOUGH room for utility. (Multple foes, warding, Aegis chain, interrupts, blocks, blinds, etc...)

Yes, I've faced SF douzens of times.

No, I didn't loose, as they are, in fact, easy to crush. (Interrupt any passive defence, most likely aegis, and win)

On the other side, if a SF spike manages to stay alive longer than 30 seconds (Which is around 8 spikes, where most likely 2 or more people can get hit), it's usually a win for them.

Another big problem for SF spikes is: It's VERY easy to call, as it's simple is: ping random target, spam SF. It's not even a spike, it's merely saying: "Ok, spam SF on this guy"

BUT, a good caller will always find balled up people. (On most maps, such as Relic Runs, Cap Points, UW, Burial, you can NOT spread out 8 people outside of Nearby range. It's phsyicly impossible to spread out 8 people outside of nearby range of eachother...)

But that's for the other thread...

Izu · Aug 22, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Nox, please swallow up that sense of self pride. Not to mention it's undeserved, seeing as you take PvX builds and call them as your own. BTW trolling and QQ-ing is very unbecoming.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Aug 23, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Honestly, ranger spike shouldn't be cried upon..

I've posted in countless threads about ranger spike qqing the same exact thing.

Learn to prot? If someone says something like "How do you prot rspike?" I'm going to rage very hard.
Learn to pressure?
Learn to shutdown?

Honestly... the only thing people should be qq'ing on is protting rspike on Fetid and how Fetid should be removed from the game. Then again, the qq'ers can't prot rspike period... so they don't understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

QQ on a diff website plz. idgaf

If your the monk you say you are, why are you qq'ing about rspike? Should be easy to prot.
Should be easy to infuse if you play with people who know how to play.

Killed u man · Aug 23, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

Snip

Just gonna quote you here, because of the amount of random statements in your post.

Learn to prot? If someone says something like "How do you prot rspike?" I'm going to rage very hard.

The spike is clean. You can't prot a clean spike. Don't say you can catch the spikes, because I've obsed you (Usually you're playing N/Rt in the Rspike, or a Monk) and I can't even catch the spikes when there 1 sec reaction time. This is argueable tough, as it will be your word vs mine, but don't come with the: " A good prot monk can catch it, bullsheit"
EDIT: Furthermore, Shift is good button for a caller imo

Learn to pressure?

Pressure, as "cool" and "elitist" it might sound, pressure is nothing more than effective skill usage combined with effective skill bars... Rspike can shutdown 1 of those. (The skillbars)
If "pressuring" them down is a valid arguement, NO build would be overpowered, as you could simply "pressure" Smitway down. You could simply pressure Signet of Mystic Wrath down, etc...

Learn to shutdown?

It's one again one of those elitist terms that bad people use to sound cool. Shuting down is nothing more than effectivly using your skillbar against certain enemy skills. (Passive and or Active defence)
Unless you have 2 mesmers, run a mes and a Ranger (Which gives u alot of disadvantage), you won't shutdown: (Going from VM's build)

[Whirling Defence]
[Dshot] (This skill alot can win the match vs a balanced)
[Defensive Anthem]
[Defensive Anthem]
[Protective Was Kaolei]
[Weapon of Warding]

On top of the fact that:

[Dual Shot] x3
[Sloth Hunter's Shot] x3
[Order of the Vampire]

Needs to be interrupted aswell.

The build is OP, but all you do is play with VM, so I don't expect you to start realizing the truth here.
It's not a secret, Izzy is a fan of Rspike, which makes U VERY lucky guys, but No, you're still bad players...

Rspike is shooting with AK-47's in a game where everyone is forced to use clubs, axes and whatnot else physical weapon.

bitchbar player · Aug 23, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Borat, finnaly, this is the first post where you didn't make any mistakes about the build VM runs.

scruffy · Aug 24, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Balanced builds are simply a bunch of gimmicks rolled into one build in hopes that when they come across a build that relies on one gimmick like rspike, they can counter it with one of their own gimmicks like an infuse monk.

The problem is the players they have brought to counter whichever gimmick they are up against have to be good enough to perform their job. Balanced builds are prepared for many builds but they dont fight many builds at once so 1 or 2 key characters are relied upon for that build to have victory over the gimmick build, which relies on the character in that position to be superior to the gimmick, hence the phrase your team is only as good as its weakest player.

That is why balanced builds are ideal because in theory they can beat anything you can throw at them as long as their players designated to counter a certain gimmick are up to the task.

For example: Balanced vrs Ranger Spike: Balanced teams monks (their gimmick to counter spikes) have to be good enough to stop the Ranger Spike from killing, and give their team enough time to eventually win the game.

Of course, there are 8 players on a team and everyone plays a part but in a balanced build a couple roles stand out in each match depending on what you are facing.

Edwards · Aug 24, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I've played with Chaos, and seen him effectively prot against rspike. Did he catch every spike? No. Did he catch enough to give us a chance to win? Yes.

I will agree that rspike is a pain in the ass to pressure. The spike itself isn't THAT bad, as it CAN be caught/shutdown, it's that the spike is pulled off by five people, who also have room for a DA, snares, Vital Weapon, etc, etc, etc. The comparison to rtspike has been raised, and the same thing was true for that. Rtspike didn't win simply because of the big damage coming often from teh spike, it won because of that combined with having seven healers and tons of utility.