Curse

Lykan · Sep 16, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Old school holding was better but it wont be changed back, the main reason is because Izzy didnt like the fact that people went in to HOH and just stood around for 6 minutes waiting til 2 mins. He even spoke to a few HAers and asked why people just stand there. (power was one i believe)

The current objectives give people something to do for the whole match so to Anet they are good. Which is why it wont change anytime soon (if at all).

Our Lady Of Sorrow · Sep 16, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Old school holding was better but it wont be changed back, the main reason is because Izzy didnt like the fact that people went in to HOH and just stood around for 6 minutes waiting til 2 mins. He even spoke to a few HAers and asked why people just stand there. (power was one i believe)

The current objectives give people something to do for the whole match so to Anet they are good. Which is why it wont change anytime soon (if at all).

so make it a system where you cant stand still? make it one objective only (king of the hill!!!) halls in my view should be holding the alter, it shows more skill than relic/cap points, as they are luck 80% of the time

Killed u man · Sep 16, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Old school holding was better but it wont be changed back, the main reason is because Izzy didnt like the fact that people went in to HOH and just stood around for 6 minutes waiting til 2 mins. He even spoke to a few HAers and asked why people just stand there. (power was one i believe)

The current objectives give people something to do for the whole match so to Anet they are good. Which is why it wont change anytime soon (if at all).

With Relic run, you're standing still untill the last 90 seconds.

We went from waiting 2-3 minutes, to waiting 6-7 minutes, thats not an improvement in my book.

On Capture Points, it's, if every teams knows how to play (And the mathematical/Phyisical problems of Cap Points), auto-win for however has the most AoE/nuking resistence.
(Check the Cap Points thread, where I give a 100+ lines explanation on WHY Cap Points doesn't promote splitting the way it should, and why it will never be a "fair" game, where skill wins you the match)

So here, we went from Build Wars (Hyper Defence) to Build Wars (Hyper AoE/Defence). Once again, not much of an improvement here...

Last but not least, new-style KoTH, the same rules apply as in the old days:
-> More holding power = more chance of winning
-> Good coordination (Interrupting songs and Ghostly's - Putting guardian on YOUR song to prevent savage/dshots - etc...)
-> Strategic Play: IF our Ghostly dies, who will we allow to cap, in order for us to still have a chance at winning

Wherea's the big lines are the same, there is some key-point differences with the old-school KoTH.

-Rezzing every minute was a BAD change. In case of a 1v1 scenario, rezzing every minute usually means auto-win for blue. The best top guilds can NOT role an average team in under a minute, AND spike the Ghostly in time. I'm not taking OP builds into concideration, as this is a problem with skill balance, and not map balance. (Rspike, Ritspikes, pretty much any spike

)

-No Moral doesn't allow for more strategic play.

-> Biggest change I would do here, is promote GOOD play. (What I would always do, tbh)
A some changes would be:

-DP on EVERY HoH map, no matter what style.
-Allow certain conditions to give you a moral boost. (Or Ghostly, or something else, such as scoring 8 kills on your team)
-ONLY of who's Ghostly died WHILST holding the center (If Blue Ghostly dies in the beginning) gets auto-rezzed once.
- IF your Ghostly died when he was NOT holding the Altar, he does NOT get auto-rezzed, and you have to burn a Rez Orb (Respawns once, so you can only let your Ghostly die twice, whilst not holding)
-Change the Auto-Rez for party-members from 1 minute, to every 2 minutes.
-Of Ghostly died twice, whilst he was NOT holding, it's auto-resign for that team, so they can't gank.

-> This would promote teams that can pressure out WHILST holding, another team, and thus allowing them to take them out of the game. (By killing their only Ghostly twice, they take them out)

Lykan · Sep 16, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

With Relic run, you're standing still untill the last 90 seconds.

Don't be an ass, you're well aware of the differences, in a relic run there are at least 3 members of a team doing something non-stop the whole match. I know they arent doing much but its still something which is what they wanted to achieve.

Im not defending it im just stating the facts. Anet like the new setup more than old school holding, not much we can do about it.
The only way we'll get holding back is like it is now, the point system. I can't see them removing cap points or relics tho tbh

TogoTheTiger · Sep 16, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Lady Of Sorrow

so make it a system where you cant stand still? make it one objective only (king of the hill!!!) halls in my view should be holding the alter, it shows more skill than relic/cap points, as they are luck 80% of the time

Are you just BEGGING for more defensive builds that sit in UW for 20 minutes?

Kyp Jade · Sep 16, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Let them take defensive builds. Unlike before, in defense builds that see play RIGHT NOW, if one of thier defense guys is bad, is countered, or doesnt play well, they take a lot of pressure. Those builds require a lot of coordination to play today. The only time those builds are trouble, is when both midliners(or all 3 if they need 3) are actually any good, and that is as it should be.

If seen a lot of teams start taking a fc water ele, a SS necro, and earth ele. In todays term thats a really defensive build. I am playing a build that uses 3 physicals for most of its damage (for the other readers that are slow, that means they are playing a direct counter build to mine), but I still beat these both in underworld, on unholy, on forgotton, on courtyard, antechamber, and in halls.

It is not as big of a problem as you think it is.

Killed u man · Sep 16, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Don't be an ass, you're well aware of the differences, in a relic run there are at least 3 members of a team doing something non-stop the whole match. I know they arent doing much but its still something which is what they wanted to achieve.

Well, technacly, "standing still" is still doing something, so by your definition, you were also always doing something in old-school KoTH.

The only reason why people still run in the first minutes, is because people still run in the first minutes. (It supports itself)

If EVERYONE were to START running at 2 minutes (Thus actually standing still for 6-7 minutes), the games would still have a similar outcome as if they were to run since the beginning.

Once again, the main reason that this is, is because IF you manage to get ahead at 3-4 minutes to end, you will simply get dual-team-snared.
If you try to take a team out before 2 minutes (Aka [GANK] tactics), 99% of the time, that team will simply stop running, type "Ty for the gank, we'll gank you back" in All Chat, and fully gank you.

There is NOT A SINGLE FORM of strategic play before 2 minutes in Relic Run. Ok, maybe 1 out of every 100-200 games, you get some action at around 3 minutes, but in general, untill 90-120 seconds, NOTHING happens, but 6 people franticly running Relics, not realizing that no matter what they do, they can't get ahead, nor fall behind.

Relic Run: Bad Design
Cap Points: Bad Design
KoTH: Half-Decent Design
Old-School Holding: Decent Design with minor flaws. (Interrupt wars and/or Hyper defence, both which can be solved purely by nerfing/buffing skills)