Curse

Kyp Jade · Sep 11, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

This thread deserved some thread necromancy big time.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10214511

(Be nice if a mod could show the poll results)
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Tl-Dr

Old school altar holding needs to return. Change song conc to party members only, and destroy ward v stability. Oh yea, nerf the shit out of PD/magebane as well. and then you have fun HoH matches again.

Rotating objectives are nice, but if you read my (wrong) posts in that thread, you can see all of the good points are far outweighed by the bad.

The biggest issue that needs to bring old altar holding back is that today, you can look at a build, and see what it will probably do on any objective. Before with old school altar holding it took a good player to be able to predict who is going where and how to counter it to win.

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will add more later

Quote:

Same as it is now ( 3 rotating objectives ) 90 21.84%
New KotH ( points for holding altar ) 89 21.60%
Oldschool altar cap ( last team holding altar wins ) 217 52.67%
Other (please suggest in post) 16 3.88%

Shayne Hawke · Sep 11, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

So, you want turtle teams to win lots?

Dismiss the Cynic · Sep 11, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

If it's either playing vs thumpercrap or some holding build i'd rather choose to play the sway.

Lord Natural · Sep 11, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I defended altar holding for a good while after its removal, but when it became apparent that anet was more interested in appeasing the scrubs than actual HA players, I lost interest. Let's face it, it's gone and never coming back. The only people left on this board fall into the former category anyway, so you won't get much sympathy here.

Kyp Jade · Sep 11, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I seem to remember the super defensive holding builds dying to interupt heavy builds. Then those interupt heavy builds dying to pressure builds. Then those pressure builds dying to ....., then those .... dying to .....

People held all day long with old school altar holding because they knew how to use the objective. And after HoH went down to 3 teams it happened even less. Because it was always 2v1. And also, better teams should be holding against bad teams. Watching a good team lose to 2 bad teams because 1 bad team ganks the good team on relic is sad. In altar hold the good team can still win against a gank if played right

Capture the altar by time the game ends
-Scout abilities ahead of time, set subtargets for interupts
x) This is for builds with more than 1 source of disruption, bad teams cant do this
-Kill stuff
x) No matter how defensive you play, if at least 1 team is of similar skill level you WILL feel the pressure from the scrub team + good team. And super defensive builds still could crack to pressure, only spikes had a lot of trouble with these teams
Prevent other teams from capturing the altar.
-Use subtargets set, interupt key skills
a) spellbreaker
b) guardian
c) etc etc
-Use capping skills (see list above)
Hold till finish
-Attempt to turtle
-Interupt capping skills (see subtargets)
-Interupt ghostlies

Koth promotes turtling far more than capping last did.
-Grab the altar
-Turtle for as long as you can, (made easier with 1 min res timer)

Relic run is decided by ganks or rubber bands, has far too many skill imbalances, and is always decided on cap last.

Capture points had potential to be decent, but was poorly designed.

Dismiss the Cynic · Sep 11, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Capture the altar by time the game ends
-Scout abilities ahead of time, set subtargets for interupts
x) This is for builds with more than 1 source of disruption, bad teams cant do this
-Kill stuff
x) No matter how defensive you play, if at least 1 team is of similar skill level you WILL feel the pressure from the scrub team + good team. And super defensive builds still could crack to pressure, only spikes had a lot of trouble with these teams
Prevent other teams from capturing the altar.
-Use subtargets set, interupt key skills
a) spellbreaker
b) guardian
c) etc etc
-Use capping skills (see list above)
Hold till finish
-Attempt to turtle
-Interupt capping skills (see subtargets)
-Interupt ghostlies

So sitting around till 0:30 trying to figure out which char runs the few skills necesarry for capping and then rushing onto the altar attempting to cap first is fun ?

Kyp Jade · Sep 11, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dismiss the Cynic

So sitting around till 0:30 trying to figure out which char runs the few skills necesarry for capping and then rushing onto the altar attempting to cap first is fun ?

Anyone that waited till 0:30 to try to cap usually never could cap, regardless if they kill the ghostly or not. The latest it would start is 2min till finish, usually before.

So sitting around working around the superfast 1 min res timer is fun (or abusing the 1 min res timer)

So mindlessly running relics for 8 or so minutes, knowing that only the last 30 seconds matter is fun?

So standing on 2 circles, hoping you dont get ganked is fun? (yea theres more to this one, not the point)

LifesRestorer · Sep 11, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

the only reason people QQ'd about old school altar holding was because they didn't like interrupt fests... because they were too stupid to...

- blind a ranger
- interrupt seeking arrows
- put SB on a ghost so PD couldnt interrupt it
- e-deny a ranger
- KD a ranger at a crucial time to interrupt
- throw diversion on a ranger/mesmer
- throw a hex such as reckless haste, blurred vision, price of failure, spirit of failure ect on a ranger

As one of the 2 core rangers for AnSy's back in the day old school build with 2 CG rangers, 2 Rt spirit spammers and 2 N/Mo healers, the only reason it was so easy to interrupt for up to 4 minutes straight was because teams were too RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid to do any of the above.

People playing the gimmicks of back in the day with no means of disruption were the ones who QQ'd about this shit.

-Bspikers couldn't shut down interrupts, as they could only spike ghosts with no SB
-IWAY could blind rangers with trappers, if they were smart (not many were) though they had no holding capacity due to having NO F*CKING HEALERS
-ViMway had the same problem as IWAY, great shutdown on interrupts, no way of holding up the ghost to cap

Lets take a standard balance build of today and see how 2 CG rangers would fair up against all the shutdown people pack now, that they didn't back then.

UG eles - Oshit, as soon as i press savage/dshot i fall over before i can get it off. also this f*cker has a dust trap appearing at my location, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO.

PD mesmers - he doesn't even need to hit a diversion. all he needs to do is hit seeking arrows and then his rit and RC can stick weapon of warding and guardian on the ghost and it's pretty much a sure cap...

Water eles (a dying breed but whatever, some teams pack this instead of an earth ele) - BLURRED VISION. Even if they miss the first interrupt and can hit the second with the backup D-shot, seeking just dropped due to them missing with an attack. oshi, guardian and WoW wins the game again. Oh also I hurd glyph of immo/steam was good

Shock axe/Hammer warriors - KD chains say hi

Last but not least, how about those Song of contcentrations that are packed in every team, sometimes on more than 1 character?

Bring back the old school holding - if they want the halls they can earn it with smart shutdown, instead of pot luck depending on who ganks who in halls...

¿Evan¿ · Sep 11, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

I would like to see a koth only halls rather than old school holding. Harder to gank that way, and all teams have more of a chance. Also sacred temples need to be put back into the rotation. Holding builds have way less chance of getting to halls with antechamber and sacred temples in the map rotation(splitting).

Renowned Spartan · Sep 11, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I don't agree too much with some of the stuff you say, but this issue needs to be fixed. Anet needs to get their heads out of their asses and fix it before all interest in HA is lost.

/signed and /signed again.

Horace The Great · Sep 12, 2008, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Last who caps wins is better then how it is now.

I think a different version of KotH would be better. The first team who get an amount of points wins, this could be 7 or 8 or whatever. And of course this should be the only thing in halls/courtyard(/broken tower).

Dismiss the Cynic · Sep 12, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Anyone that waited till 0:30 to try to cap usually never could cap, regardless if they kill the ghostly or not. The latest it would start is 2min till finish, usually before.

Nowadays you can bring way more stuff to support the ghostly at capping than back in the days. Also you have alot more overpowered shit you can bring, meaning you a team that caps between 3-2 mins and gets attacked by the other two will atleast suffer heavy casualties or fullwhipe which pretty much results in one of the other teams capping the altar.
If there isnt a huge benefit for capping and holding the altar several minutes nobody but a holding build would do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

So sitting around working around the superfast 1 min res timer is fun (or abusing the 1 min res timer)

So mindlessly running relics for 8 or so minutes, knowing that only the last 30 seconds matter is fun?

So standing on 2 circles, hoping you dont get ganked is fun? (yea theres more to this one, not the point)

I never said that the current system is any good either, but it's still the lesser evil in comparison to oldschool koth.

Arya Nibelrund · Sep 12, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I'd like a KOTH system, 3 ways like it is now, with auto-kick for the team that has no more chances to win to prevent a bit of ganking.
Or something like this: holding team is the only to spawn with ghost and they already have central altar. When their ghost dies, the teams with more health auto-caps and its ghostly appears and so on. Should hurt spike teams.
Cap points is basically a gankfest and relic runs is plain boring (which is good when I prot

).

Kyp Jade · Sep 12, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

My only problem with king of the hill, is that there is no benifit for capping, or being the last one on the altar. The only strategy is cap and turtle.

Arya Nibelrund · Sep 12, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

From my point of view, the team that has been able to hold on longer with 2 teams stomping on them should be winning. I wouldn't want to hold for almost all match then have some kind of rspike/IV spike/etc clean spike my ghostly and cap at the last moment.

Our Lady Of Sorrow · Sep 14, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

From my point of view, the team that has been able to hold on longer with 2 teams stomping on them should be winning. I wouldn't want to hold for almost all match then have some kind of rspike/IV spike/etc clean spike my ghostly and cap at the last moment.

thats where the recap tactic comes in. or if you dont want to play that tactic to be safe, look out for the spikes, prot up your ghost, look for rend.. if you have good players, you win. if you have good players now-a-days, you fail very easy.. due to people holding retarded grudges. ("he called me an sway noob in outpost, lets gank them" <--and it happens..)

oldschool is more fun imo..

people say that if its oldschool, people will make extreme holding builds, and hold for hours.. TRUE.. BUT.. DONT COPY THEIR BUILD!!! the reason that happened.. was people saw a build holding, and they wanted in on the fame, so they copy and paste exactly, and run it.. and we all know.. that a high def holding vs high defx2 attacking.. blue will always win unless something stupid(err7 or something)
just run your own builds, make the game fun, not spamming wards/shouts to get fame in halls.

Dismiss the Cynic · Sep 15, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Lady Of Sorrow

thats where the recap tactic comes in. or if you dont want to play that tactic to be safe, look out for the spikes, prot up your ghost, look for rend.. if you have good players, you win.

Quoted for utterly retardedness,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Lady Of Sorrow

just run your own builds, make the game fun, not spamming wards/shouts to get fame in halls.

So losing in halls because your build is unsuitable is fun ?

Our Lady Of Sorrow · Sep 15, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dismiss the Cynic

Quoted for utterly retardedness,

did you ever play halls 2-3 years ago? were there overdefencive builds? did they lose? how? look up.. they failed that.

Quote:

So losing in halls because your build is unsuitable is fun ?

are you one of this people that just want to win to feel good at the game? id rather play retarded builds with guildies and lose to sway, then run a serious build and yell at them for RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing up a role..

we need more space for fun in the game, you have to run a serious build to get anywhere.. back in the golden ages you could run 8mo/r with pets and balths aura for a joke and beat a few teams.. but now.. do that.. and you get rolled

Takida · Sep 15, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

i agree with kyp but i dunno..
its for sure not happening

Dismiss the Cynic · Sep 15, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Lady Of Sorrow

did you ever play halls 2-3 years ago? were there overdefencive builds? did they lose? how? look up.. they failed that.

Yes. Yes. If played correctly you held halls until someones errored out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Lady Of Sorrow

are you one of this people that just want to win to feel good at the game? id rather play retarded builds with guildies and lose to sway, then run a serious build and yell at them for RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing up a role..

we need more space for fun in the game, you have to run a serious build to get anywhere.. back in the golden ages you could run 8mo/r with pets and balths aura for a joke and beat a few teams.. but now.. do that.. and you get rolled

For me winning is a essential factor for having fun, not the most improtant but still essential. So knowing that you could win, but you dont because your build is bad isnt fun anymore after 1-2 runs.