Curse

Tyla · Dec 20, 2008, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

Snip.

It benefits you because you want a game with broken aspects all over. That is not diverse at all. That makes people bring more forms of defense. In this case, roll-your-head-on-the-keyboard-then-win builds. Also, just because a build is out there and this discussion has f*ck all to do with that build doesn't mean I don't support a nerf.

Also, I find it funny you're resorting to ad hominem attacks. Points have already been made, it's just a matter of people understanding it.

Tenebrae · Dec 20, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

because we dont want an elite leaping mantis sting. we want a leadskip offhand with unconditional cripple.

Oh yes , that is also unblockable , goes thru blurr/blind and does pretty good damage , can keep the target ALWAYS crippled , and has a sh** low recharge .... i guess u forgot to mention that right ? . Why stop there ? ask to have even more damage or an energy return if foe is not attacking lol .

The skill has NO contras and damn loads of PROS , i can almost smell the nerf on next skill update , my bets :
- Increased recharge to 10 or 12
- Decreased cripple time and/or Condition to cripple , moving target , suffering from hex .

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 20, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Atm it's somewhat balanced around the fact that the sin's bar becomes completely useless if you dshot/divert Palm Strike.

shoogi · Dec 20, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Shoot yourself, don't use the word Always without adding more to support that claim. Atleast others have the sense to say "Always as long as their current format remains" or some other equivalent of that.

Assassins in their current format will always have the problem of being easy to disable.

Quote:

So why the hell do you care? It's not overpowered, it's not destroying the game, yet you want to attack the class as a whole yet you just gave an example of something that is not destroying your game.

it's not as broken as WE but it is broken. WE bar also requires more brain than sin bar, in its current format. You at least need to know how to use bull's, protector's, and frenzy. Sins in their current format need to be clever with their target picking and that's about it.

Quote:

This line just screams bias. Now I understand that regardless of whether or not something is overpowered if it is degenerate, it should not belong. Sins have builds that take skill just like every other profession, the difference is they are generally ineffective.

Sins in their current format are a degenerate class, that exactly as you said, should not belong.

Quote:

Palm strike itself is good for the game, and by that I mean it's good for the profession. I do not mean Palm strike is good in terms of making sins "Blow crap up"
I mean Palm strike in concept of course. In it's current form...well I don't see why it should stay in it's current form. However theres nothing wrong with Palm Strike inflicting cripple, it's simply a matter of what happens within the skill such as damage, duration,energy and recharge. Of course maybe im being an idiot, I do have that tendency however, Palm strike provides options. As normal offhands need to be used in a chain they hinder the profession to an automated chain of button pressing. However Palm strike can be used whenever you are in melee range, regardless of your other skills. Palm strike only needs fine tuning to find it's place.
The only profession that is "Good" for the game is the monk. The monk is the sole thing that's pretty much....always needed. Warriors are replaced when gimmicks pop up, rangers are replaced, etc. Monks are not replaced generally.
All the sins provide is an option of play, there is nothing wrong with having options in this game. Assassins are not destroying this game, as any class can become far more broken at any time (and many have). Why are mesmers or necro's good for this game?
Of course "ME LIEK BIGG DAMAGE IN RA LOLOL" isn't a reasonable argument, but saying because they have done BIGG damage in RA isn't an argument to say they are bad for the game.
Gvg has had issues regardless of whether or not the assassin profession was in the meta. Ha has also had issues, so has every other form of pvp.
Assassins are not destroying the game.
The concept of assassins does not destroy the game, considering various implementation of dexterous professions in games.
I'll repeat myself, I could be showing myself to be an idiot right, but Palm strike does not need to be "nuked".

Correct me if Im wrong, I might learn something.

Are you really asking me to explain why mesmers are a better concept than assassins?
Mesmers reward intelligent play (excluding hex-stack mesmers)
Assassins, IN THEIR CURRENT FORMAT, don't. The current format of assassins is a 1-2-3-4-5-6-lolurdead format. If you cant see why that's bad, well...

I'll sum it up for you-
I don't like assassins in their current format. If those sin templates that you're talking about that actually require skillful play will actually get used and be the dominant sin templates, then I will like sins. As simple as that.

X Cytherea X · Dec 20, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

^in their current format, skillful play, blahblah my ass

if you play sins only doing 123456 you suck.
if you think sins have nothing else to think about than 123456 you suck.
they're just another melee, that just happen to have to do 123456.

Quote:

Oh yes , that is also unblockable , goes thru blurr/blind and does pretty good damage , can keep the target ALWAYS crippled , and has a sh** low recharge .... i guess u forgot to mention that right ? . Why stop there ? ask to have even more damage or an energy return if foe is not attacking lol .

yeah pretty sweet isnt it.

Quote:

The skill has NO contras and damn loads of PROS , i can almost smell the nerf on next skill update , my bets :
- Increased recharge to 10 or 12
- Decreased cripple time and/or Condition to cripple , moving target , suffering from hex .

dont you all wish. though i wouldnt mind a cripple length reduction.

Quote:

Atm it's somewhat balanced around the fact that the sin's bar becomes completely useless if you dshot/divert Palm Strike.

true

Tyla · Dec 20, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

in their current format, skillful play, blahblah my ass

if you play sins only doing 123456 you suck.
if you think sins have nothing else to think about than 123456 you suck.
they're just another melee, that just happen to have to do 123456.

That's an epic contradiction.

X Cytherea X · Dec 20, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

how so? this will be funny.

lord of all tyria · Dec 20, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

If its just another melee, that happens to have to go 123456, how can they have anything else to do when 7 is dash and 8 is a res or shadowstep?

Tyla · Dec 20, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

how so? this will be funny.

Quote:

if you play sins only doing 123456 you suck.
if you think sins have nothing else to think about than 123456 you suck.

Quote:

they're just another melee, that just happen to have to do 123456.

I think this speaks for itself. If they have to do 123456, then how can they do anything other than 123456 and how can they have anything else to think about than 123456?

lilDeath · Dec 20, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Atm it's somewhat balanced around the fact that the sin's bar becomes completely useless if you dshot/divert Palm Strike.

This.
Very easy to do and dmn funny to watch the sin dumbed down to auto attack. I have not had a single sin that tried to fake me. They don't, it's a /rollface bar.

X Cytherea X · Dec 20, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

If its just another melee, that happens to have to go 123456, how can they have anything else to do when 7 is dash and 8 is a res or shadowstep?

Quote:

I think this speaks for itself. If they have to do 123456, then how can they do anything other than 123456 and how can they have anything else to think about than 123456?

- check if you have antimelee hexes
- check if you are blind
- check if target is blocking above 50%
- check if target is heavily protted or has big armor buffs
- target prioritization
- timing attack skills (evading interrupts, waiting for key skills of target before kding it, etc)
- watch health. know when to run.
- watch energy (ex: dont do trampling at 5e or you cant followup falling)
- watch positioning (dont get yourself ganked. with or without shadowsteps.)
...just like any melee.
but this is unique to sins...
- make sure your attack skill's condition is met before doing it

wow. i cant believe i had to explain that to these idiots.

Jeydra · Dec 20, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I think this speaks for itself. If they have to do 123456, then how can they do anything other than 123456 and how can they have anything else to think about than 123456?

Lol.

Here, I'll analyze it out for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Crytherea X

if you play sins only doing 123456 you suck.
if you think sins have nothing else to think about than 123456 you suck.

If you play Sins and only do 123456, without looking at which target to select / who is out of position / who is splitting off to gank / who is low on energy / who your ally is attacking / who is not protted + etc, then you suck. Considering Tyla you once lambasted me and said that Rangers need to observe the battlefield for who to DShot (as though I don't already know), and that Monks need to watch the battlefield and place prot appropriately (again, as though I don't already know), this is an incredible oversight you made here ... or perhaps, you suck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Crytherea X

they're just another melee, that just happen to have to do 123456.

But Assassin attacks must come in chains, and so they press 123456. Actually Warriors press 123456 too (Eviscerate -> Frenzy -> Executioner's -> Disrupting Chop / Agonizing Chop -> Bull's Strike -> Rush and / or Shock, etc). Count 3-2-1 and yell on Vent for Rend, then spike. So. Do Warriors do nothing else other than count 3-2-1 and press 123456? If so, they're bad, too.

@topic - I think Palm Strike warrants a slight nerf, probably to cooldown and / or cripple duration. Palm Strike -> Trampling Ox -> Falling Spider / Falling Lotus Strike -> Horns of the Ox is two KD'ing dual attacks in quick succession. It can be blocked (Mo/W's very popular recently too), the Sin can be blinded, Life Sheath pwns Palm Strike, etc, but the double KDs severely hurt most builds and with Palm Strike inflicting perma-Cripple you can't run from the Sin. Or perhaps that means we should all play Glad-style and carry Deadly Riposte on Mesmers.

Mitch is right too, somehow disabling Palm Strike completely cripples the Assassin.

shoogi · Dec 20, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

- check if you have miss-causing hexes
- check if you are blind
- check if target is blocking
- target prioritization
- watch health
- watch energy (ex: dont do trampling at 5e or you cant followup falling)
- watch positioning (dont get yourself ganked)
...just like any melee.
but this is unique to sins...
- make sure your attack skill's condition is met before doing it

wow. i cant believe i had to explain that to these idiots.

LLLOOLLLL
wow i laughed so hard at this
you are indeed an entertaining person

"make sure your attack skill's condition is met before doing it" haha
GUILD WARS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS

And didn't you say in some other thread, I believe it was the RA thread, that guardian fails and there's no danger in doing combo on guardian? that contradicts what you said here lol

that's so post of the year over there

X Cytherea X · Dec 20, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

And didn't you say in some other thread, I believe it was the RA thread, that guardian fails and there's no danger in doing combo on guardian? that contradicts what you said here lol

damn, thanks for pointing that out. fixed.

lord of all tyria · Dec 20, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol.
Actually Warriors press 123456 too (Eviscerate -> Frenzy -> Executioner's -> Disrupting Chop / Agonizing Chop -> Bull's Strike -> Rush and / or Shock, etc).

Any warrior that does that is playing his bar like a retard.

Jeydra · Dec 20, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Precisely. Any Sin playing his bar on just 123456 is playing like a retard, too.

xDusT II · Dec 20, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Double the recharge halve the cripple duration.

Tyla · Dec 20, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

But Assassin attacks must come in chains, and so they press 123456. Actually, bad Warriors press 123456 too (Eviscerate -> Frenzy -> Executioner's -> Disrupting Chop / Agonizing Chop -> Bull's Strike -> Rush and / or Shock, etc). Count 3-2-1 and yell on Vent for Rend, then spike. So. Do Warriors do nothing else other than count 3-2-1 and press 123456? If so, they're bad, too.

Fixed. Bull's Strike is a conditional knockdown, which you will really want to use before you spike. Shock has this thing called "exhaustion". Frenzy has the double damage which can hurt you. Adrenaline means that if you're being kited or blocked you can't execute.

Energy attacks are far different.

Quote:

If you play Sins and only do 123456, without looking at which target to select / who is out of position / who is splitting off to gank / who is low on energy / who your ally is attacking / who is not protted + etc, then you suck. Considering Tyla you once lambasted me and said that Rangers need to observe the battlefield for who to DShot (as though I don't already know), and that Monks need to watch the battlefield and place prot appropriately (again, as though I don't already know), this is an incredible oversight you made here ... or perhaps, you suck.

Distracting Shot is an interrupt, therefore if you miss it you've not got the most efficient usage of it. Infact, where do you see Rangers pressing 123456? Assassins use a combo, therefore if you miss with it you've lost out on it completely, but there's no escaping that because you don't need to do more than roll your head against the keyboard. The same can be said for prots; Assassins just need to pick a target, prevail their combo or fail it, doing near nothing for a while, while Monks are far more active - infact, when do you see Monks pressing 123456?

Either way, I'm finding it funny that you're pointing out methods of common sense. When an Assassin gets more active play and less spam (Palm Strike has next to no downfalls in terms of snare capability, try again), try comparing again.

Also, what Cytherea said is contradicting because he says that you suck etc. if you do X, but then puts limitations tied to that of what he said you suck by. It wasn't a comparison to skill required on other professions.

Phe Belladona · Dec 20, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Precisely. Any Sin playing his bar on just 123456 is playing like a retard, too.

well no because most sins MUST play their bar like that.. its an attack CHAIN meaning if you push 2 before you push 1 you'll do RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all, so you have to 123456. a warrior can bulls targets to frenzy on and build adren, can spike targets without KDing first, can generally mix and match all his skills as they are charged to get the best effect from them at any given time. while a sin MUST still press 123456 on his target if he wants to do anything, there may be mix ups in the chain 143256 but its still just a sequence pressed in an order 1 after the other.

reduce damage done, increase recharge and reduce the cripple i see no reason to invite stupid sins back to the game.

deluxe · Dec 20, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

I think decent players can all agree that in it's current state, palm strike builds are too easy to get kills with.
Also, people need to stop discussing with this kid cytheria, he's just a baddie that will never learn. She makes nice squirting movies though!