Curse

moriz · Dec 19, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

i'd like to point out one fact that a lot of people are overlooking:

palm strike is the ONLY elite cripple skill that allows you to do follow-up with an auto-KD dual attack.

and here's another key point about balance that people are overlooking:

GW is not a fighting game. unlike a fighting game, the number of available actions for any given character at any given time is quite limited. as such, for any given build to have any reasonable counter to a large variety of other builds (and this counter can come in many forms, from straight RPS counter to creative skill usage), the relative power of each build needs to be kept carefully in check.

adding "variety" by continuously adding powerful skills into the pool will upset this balance. i'd think the fiasco after NF should let everyone know of this problem. unfortunately, i overestimated human intelligence again.

with all this said, i see no logical argument why palm strike SHOULDN'T have an 8 second recharge. it is still an excellent snare with a deadly followup available, but will remove the spammy-ness AND make it so you can't chain off 3 dual attacks in one combo, which everyone should agree is ridiculous. anyone arguing this really needs to give their heads a shake.

Krill · Dec 19, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

@ LifesRestorer

Good points, but remember that palm strike is not an attack skill so shield bash as defense is totally reliant on hitting the following skills. If a sin sees shield bash go up he can just wait the 5 seconds and palm strike again if the cripple is cleared, or do something else since the recharge is so short.

We'll know whether this skill should be nerfed or not after mat and if so, get the usual three dartboard skills changes anyway.

scruffy · Dec 19, 2008, 04:05 AM // 04:05

the only teams ive seen using it so far have been using it as a replacement for the usual dev hammer in split builds

i watched for about 5 minutes and decided a hammer warrior is still better for that role(the role of running around the map and owning solo healers/stragglers)

Aerial Assault · Dec 19, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

Nerf.

Go make your own thread about dervs. I lol'd @ variety. Haha.

This thread is now about dervs.

LOL all you like, deep down it's true. Why do you think there's skill updates every month? Granted they're not always in the right direction, but changing skills breathes new life, a new meta (good or bad) into an otherwise stagnant game, and that keeps people playing.

I do not endorse the addition for imba skills, and do agree Palm Strike needs to be toned down. I am merely stating that the direction that Izzy's taken with this latest update is in the RIGHT direction, it just needs some fine tuning. More viable elite skills creates more diversity, which always a plus in my book.

Mr Emu · Dec 19, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

Why do you think there's skill updates every month?

balance maybe?

Forgotton200 · Dec 19, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

LOL all you like, deep down it's true. Why do you think there's skill updates every month? Granted they're not always in the right direction, but changing skills breathes new life, a new meta (good or bad) into an otherwise stagnant game, and that keeps people playing.

I do not endorse the addition for imba skills, and do agree Palm Strike needs to be toned down. I am merely stating that the direction that Izzy's taken with this latest update is in the RIGHT direction, it just needs some fine tuning. More viable elite skills creates more diversity, which always a plus in my book.

Ok so you agree it needs to be toned down. I keep getting you and X_Cynderilla_X or whatever mixed up.

Aerial Assault · Dec 19, 2008, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

balance maybe?

Now that is reason for LOL. I used to believe this too, then I woke up.

Let me ask you this, when was the game ever truly balanced? The answer is never. Buff a skill, nerf a skill, the player base has always been able to gradually and continually pinpoint which skills are more viable, leaving most other skills to gather dust. That has always been the history of Guild Wars.

Forgotton200 · Dec 19, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

Now that is reason for LOL. I used to believe this too, then I woke up.

Let me ask you this, when was the game ever truly balanced? The answer is never. Buff a skill, nerf a skill, the player base has always been able to gradually and continually pinpoint which skills are more viable, leaving most other skills to gather dust. That has always been the history of Guild Wars.

And this is the sad thing. People already lost the mindset of "balance" and thinks about the next meta. Next skill update: new meta, not a balance. This is how I see this game. I wonder if this is anet's intention so pvp can keep being "fresh."

I Jonas I · Dec 19, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

The player base is what makes this game amazing in the first place. if it wasn't for us finding and exploiting the most overpowered skills, then there would be no metagame and PvP would be static and suck.

Snow Bunny · Dec 19, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

You all are blabbing on about "When you see it having so much play it must be overpowered."

I feel burdened to remind you that in the Factions day, EVERYONE ran AoD sins, and fighting against a shock/AoD sin feels identical to fighting one of these Palm Strike sins.They were manageable back then and they're manageable now. It's not like searing flames, and it's not like warrior's endurance. Most classes pack the simplest forms of disruption, you should be able to deal with these sins.

Buff up the recharge to 6 and lower the cripple by a second. I thought this was a good buff and it's really annoying to see Ensign fanboys/wannabes (you know who you are) going "zzzzz delete assassins zzzzz bad for the game zzzz" when in fact this buff is in the right direction.

Warriors are still superior and more fun to play.

Forgotton200 · Dec 19, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You all are blabbing on about "When you see it having so much play it must be overpowered."

I feel burdened to remind you that in the Factions day, EVERYONE ran AoD sins, and fighting against a shock/AoD sin feels identical to fighting one of these Palm Strike sins.They were manageable back then and they're manageable now. It's not like searing flames, and it's not like warrior's endurance. Most classes pack the simplest forms of disruption, you should be able to deal with these sins.

Buff up the recharge to 6 and lower the cripple by a second. I thought this was a good buff and it's really annoying to see Ensign fanboys/wannabes (you know who you are) going "zzzzz delete assassins zzzzz bad for the game zzzz" when in fact this buff is in the right direction.

Warriors are still superior and more fun to play.

If warriors are still superior, why are they getting replaced by assassins in the top5? Maybe you should give the top5 guilds some tips and tell them the facts.

faraaz · Dec 19, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

If warriors are still superior, why are they getting replaced by assassins in the top5?

Just because you personally dont like the fact that sins are being used in high end Meta doesnt mean the update is bad.

Learn 2 Adapt plz.

Reverend Dr · Dec 19, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

faraaz I might actually listen to "lrn 2 adpt" if your posting history showed anything other than PvE and bitching about sins in PvP

Top guilds run what is powerful regardless of whether or not its overpowered, DF honor has long since been shattered. If all of the top guilds have suddenly swapped a long standing, since prophecies long standing, stand warrior for an assassin then that is a sign something is not right.

FoxBat · Dec 19, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

That's just another way of saying "Assassins should not be viable."

scruffy · Dec 19, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

people are just testing them out atm, you will see them less in the monthley IMO

Reverend Dr · Dec 19, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

That's just another way of saying "Assassins should not be viable."

If my complaining that across the board a long standing build is replaced by a more powerful build (sic powercreep) is like saying "Assassins should not be viable." Then I guess assassins should not be viable, that will revert all of the power creep right?

Forgotton200 · Dec 19, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Just because you personally dont like the fact that sins are being used in high end Meta doesnt mean the update is bad.

Learn 2 Adapt plz.

Did I say I don't like sin in high end meta? No. Learn to read. Fool.

Productivity · Dec 19, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

that's what a lot of forumgoers say. in this forum and in others. but guess what, forumgoers are a minority of the guild wars population. most are in the game, enjoying playing assassins. people want to play them, heck, even in nerfed form. but especially in viable form. and most importantly, Anet knows this.

That's what everybody who understands and cares about serious PVP says. Fundamentally, I don't give a shit about what you do in RA and PVE.

wilson · Dec 19, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Nuke it. For all the reasons given above.

Yarly · Dec 19, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

QQ: Because whatever beats you must be imbalanced!