Curse

Ciric · Nov 11, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

So, I'm really bored and have been thinking about how to balance out HA for awhile, so I guess I'll post it up and let all of you chew it up a bit while we all pretend that Anet actually cares... lol.

First off in order to balance HA we need to look at 2 things: The maps (this includes the map objectives), and the skills.

We'll start with the current map rotation.

Underworld: Standard annihilation and staple map of HA. Don't see it going anywhere any time soon. The map strongly favors AoE heavy builds due to its several choke points and its fairly tight "open" area that most teams end up fighting in.

Fetid River: The first of 2 back to back priest maps. Fetid's 2 large hills and open playing field give r-spike a pretty solid advantage, however the open feild makes for easy pre protting (of r-spike and regular balanced builds). The open area also makes brainless builds revolving around massive amounts of AoE like Smiteway or your standard r6+ balanced very ineffective.

Burial Mounds: Map has out lived its days in HA. Back to back priest maps is unneeded and annoying. The obelisk is more of a joke then anything else and all of the choke points in the map just make for another map for brainless builds to blow teams up in 30 seconds.

Unholy Temples: The first and only relic run in rotation, however it's main problem lies in the fact that both sets of stairs leading out of the relic spawn are so close together there is no need for ranged snares and running grasping + foes is just as effective as bringing a water ele. I'll get more into this point later, but the fact that a team can running only 2 snares can be just as effective THROUGH OUT EVERY MAP as a team running a water ele with 3-4 snares is wrong.

Forgotten Shrines: Cap points does add a twist into HA however the current system is less then optimal. None the less I like the idea and while it can favor teams with heavy AoE it is a fairly easy map to split around or and you can make it work to your advantage.

Dark Chamber.. err.. Golden Gates: Last Priest map, it's one of the most open maps in HA and doesn't really favor any one style of play.

Courtyard: The Only KOTH on your way to HoH, the map is good but because of racing the ghost onto the alter it is one of the maps that makes Make haste so damn good. Nothing really to complaine about, its pretty open and balanced, would like to potentially see a longer timer put onto the gate locks to keep people from ganking as easy.

Antechamber: The worst of all cap points, if you have enough AoE to take and hold center you win. This is the only map where I would suggest using a Borat strat and just fall back equally on whatever they send to you spawns. Keep the middle spawn + your two all game and WIN!

HoH: Yeah not much to say.

Now to look at the stats. Currently there are:
3 Maps and a HoH Objective that favor brainless builds based on no shutdown and alot of AoE. Compared to 2 very open maps that show no favor to AoE, and a KOTH map.
1 Relic Run that does not favor ranged snares and a relic run in HoH that also favors Foes + Grasping.
2 Cap point maps, however only 1 is extremely open to several styles of tactics to counter other builds.

What I propose is this:

Underworld: Keep it, its the staple HA map.
Fetid River: Keep, good map, favors snares and shutdown. Does also favor spikes.
Burial Mounds: Kick it we don;t need another priest map that favors heavy AoE and gimmick builds.
Unholly Temples: Kick the map
Forgotten Shrines: Best cap point map in rotation, keep.
Dark Chambers: A great map that is pretty build neutral, keep it.
Court Yard: Koth map, reduce casting time on ghost to 2 seconds like in HoH to decrease the need for SoC.
Antichamber: Fairly brainless cap points that promotes brainless AOE builds.

Add Broken Tower back into the rotation as a kill count after fetid. Kill count gives spike a slight advantage, however, if both opposing teams squeeze the spike team right its advantage is taken away. Kill count want quite degenerate back in the day with SP sin, but now it will force teams to bring ranged snares (not foes+grasping) and party speed buffs OR buffs on individual moment buffs.

Add Sacred Temples into rotation after court yard. Sacred temple is probably the best and most complicated map tactically ever made for HA. It favors ranged snares, self survivable chars, and movement control on multiple chars. Great Map, makes relic running semi intelligent.

Skills: I got class soon so im just going to be quick.
Make Haste: The skill doesnt need a nerf IF Anet buffs other speed buffs, otherwise the skill isnt OP but it just out shines all other run buffs when it comes to relics. Would much rather see some other run skills buffed, but who knows because if you nerf make haste,, people will probably sitll only run make haste, but it you buff something else enough they might run that instead,

SoC: Change to: next time an ally within earshot would be interupted, they are not. That way SoC becomes less of a HAVE TO HAVE IN MY BUILD skill becuase I can press thew it by doing Cry + PD, or Savage+d-shot.

AoE Skills: Are balanced and it is the map rotation that causes them to be popular, hopfully by taking out some early AoE favoring maps you wont see as many blow em up teams running around.

R-Spike: Balanced.. we all know how i feel about that.

K class time, I have more to say but ill just elaborate when someone ask about something

Kyp Jade · Nov 11, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Strong post

SKills
---------
Add change to aura of stability where its new energy cost is 25 energy, recharge 1 minute, and duration 3 seconds and your good.

Put some kind of change on weapon of warding, something like ends when you use an attack skill, or blocks the next 5 attacks. Somethign where its not perma god mode on the ghostly until you cry it.

Maps
------
Sacred should be in rotation twice imo... jk

Make sure to kick antechamber, its a dumb map.

Also, I only felt spikes had an advantage on kill count in the 1v1 cases, any other time I would put the other team between me and the spike and farm both teams for kills. Anyone in my guild at the time heard me say kill count was a dance of dots most games. Also, anyone saying stay in the base until last minute usually lost, because I was always rushing on the map, and generally won by scores 15 above the other teams composite just because of posistioning (and the odd ritspike trying to gank me, which made it easy to posisition them in the middle of two teams and get farmed/spawncamped)

HoH
-------
Koth and relic run are playable, could use some changes, I mentioned in another post
Cap points needs a second shrine in the center or it will continue to be a whoever has the most aoe gets to chose when to force a team off the center. Good spot for that is where the chest spawns.

ousbique · Nov 11, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Strong post
Add change to aura of stability where its new energy cost is 25 energy, recharge 1 minute, and duration 3 seconds and your good.

Even as a protmonk i hate this enchantment, killing it without nerfing KD engines like RaO thumpers & assacasters is not a good idea.
Same for WoW : one of the few skills efficient against rangerspike...

Kyp Jade · Nov 11, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I hate to be the one to point this out, but weapon of warding is almost as passive as DA/Aegis are when it comes to skill usage.

your the rit, what do you do with wow? put it on monk 24/7 of put it on hero 24/7 till you get dshot.

What does that do? It removes the monk/ghost from the list of targets the other team can pressure. that is NOT good for play.

Same deal with aura of stability, rao thumpers were not a big problem before aura either. It either needs to get smiter booned or end on first kd like brace yourself. Better yet move it to smiting prayers.

Skyros · Nov 11, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Aura of Stability should have a counter on it (maybe change to maintained enchantment + counter like old HB?). Atm its just a fire and forget knock prot which is lame.

Wep of Warding - change effect to negation if target has enchantment on themselves. Wep of Warding + enchant stack is so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid on ghost maps... only thing thing that kills ghost is wiping opposing team. Pathetic. maybe give it a counter too (for the next [number] of attks, there is a 50% block etc.)

IMO: Leave SoC or add detrimental affect or targeted ghost's team bonus if ghost gets interrupted. Cause if your team has a ranger or PD, can pretty much keep a team from capping indefinitely (which is just as gay as having to take SOC in every build).

Examples: 25 health gain for team on first interrupt, 50 second, 75 on third.

OR every time ghost in interrupted, the caster that interrupt loses some odd nrgy.

ousbique · Nov 11, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

I hate to be the one to point this out, but weapon of warding is almost as passive as DA/Aegis are when it comes to skill usage.

your the rit, what do you do with wow? put it on monk 24/7 of put it on hero 24/7 till you get dshot.

What does that do? It removes the monk/ghost from the list of targets the other team can pressure. that is NOT good for play.

Same deal with aura of stability, rao thumpers were not a big problem before aura either. It either needs to get smiter booned or end on first kd like brace yourself. Better yet move it to smiting prayers.

i agree entirely for the negative impact of the pressure, but in a more general point of view, the balance between pressure & spike is HA meta is like 90% in favor of spike. In this kind of meta, non-enchantment prots are necessary since spirits are useless (lol @Shelter) and since paras shouts are for the most part of them, pure shit.

"balanceds" teams actually adds a ritualist for two or three reasons : WoW and Kaolai/life (after the LoD death), this rit works like a nearly-third monk since channeling got nerfed too.
So if WoW is smiterbooned, it's certain that ritualists will be replaced by a third monk (smiter/divine favor : spellbreaker, divine healing, deny hexes).

Yea, before Eye of the North expansion we (monks), played without AoS. Meta was slightly different as nowadays.
That was the era of Legoway with two DA paras and a water ele , only Brace Yourselves and Ward of stability could stop perma KD : Brace Yourselves is well-balanced, but Ward of stability is bad since modded sways added fire and water eles to punish ball up in wards. Flaming Thumperways are painfull and annoying to encounter, please don't give them more reasons to run it.

WoW or Aura, it's the same story : you can't only destroy "paper" without destroying "rock" equally. Only nerf defensives skills will result as more defensive builds & plays, especially in HA. I'm not personnaly fond of aura or wow, but i dont want to see again dual DA paras in HA.

But i agree with the stupidity of Aura in relics maps and your nerfing ideas (maybe "end if you're moving three second or more" ?).

Oh, and sorry for my baaaad english ^^

Lorekeeper · Nov 11, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I'm sorry but weapon of warding can be easily shutdown by an interrupt... don't QQ about fast cast items either they don't work 100% of the time. Dshot it or PD it... or just kill the rit (best solution). If the rit is not your priority target (especially after realising that the warding cannot be shutdown by your team for some reason) then you are doing something wrong and dont deserve to complain anyway.

Learn to target switch and be unpredictable. If wardings are going up on infusers 24/7 this means prot monks are relatively free targets... or how about the rits themselves?

Aura of stability is fine... if your team is doing its job at all then the enemy prot shouldnt be able to cast prots so freely anyway, let alone be able to watch the field and aura whoever your hammer warrior is on. And IF you are only doing even a tiny bit of shutdown on the enemy prot monk and your hammer warrior is still QQing about KDs not connecting then get a new hammer warrior who knows how to target switch according to where prots are being placed (the sound effect of aura is very obvious). And don't get me started on enchant removal, especially with the easy mode rend enchantments that was stupidly buffed some time ago. Its not like anyone covers aura anyway... if they have energy to spare to do so... you are failing epicly...

And then we have people saying that they would get owned by thumpers without aura. Need I point out that aura was not always available while thumpers have been around for a VERY long time?

moral of the story

stop being bad

Sun Fired Blank · Nov 11, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I think UW is easily tweakable to be more unfavorable to AoE; as it presently exists, I think it's more than slightly retarded that shit groups don't mind spending half an hour going in circles and trying to blow you up in the choke points. If you expanded some of the choke points and the area for the more constrained side of the map, that should go away.

I think Song of Concentration is an okay potential nerf, I don't particularly think Aura of Stability and Weapon of Warding require any more tweaks, I don't know exactly how to deal with Make Haste, but short of a hard nerf -- that is, fewer than 12s at very high spec -- people are going to run it anyways, or have multiple copies.

On Forgotten Shrines, I think greater movement would be a virtue. If you expanded the capture point radius, moved the center points outwards from each other, then maybe placed very limited central passages for the center and maybe top shrines, you might get more dynamic play then you see right now.

I think Antechamber could be very interesting as a seven point map with more staircases and / or teleporters, but I think it could also be a very boring run fest, and I otherwise think you should remove it from the rotation. Again if you expanded capture point radius, then maybe you'd give people some space to move out of AoE.

Kyp Jade · Nov 11, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

To bad almost all of the HA forum section is unavailable, I would absolutly love to go find one of lorekeepers posts where he says dshot doesnt make a skill balanced. And you completly missed the point that wow completly takes away the healer from the target selection. That means you have 7 potential targets to switch to, not 8. Thats NOT good.
And once again, dshot, PD, and diversion style skills arent there to say HEY i can use dshot on this, its now a balanced skill. WoW is a bad skill for HA.
Possible changes:
It ends after 1...4..5 blocks
That means it is still useable against bad r-spikes (strong r-spikes will just have the paragon train the wow'ed target, but that gives your prot a clue that he should maybe throw a guardian on the wow'ed guy)
Ends when you use an attack skill
Turns it into a mini-DA. Keeps it strong against pressure, and strong against r-spike, but you can no longer throw it on the ghostly hero in koth matches
Change to an elite

Aura is a bad skill for the game. Swallow it, its true. So long as relic run remains an objective in HoH, aura is bad for guild wars in its current state. And if it was feasable to use rend on HoH relic run so you can KD runners, people would already be doing so. No one cares about aura in underworld matches.
Fixes
Ends after first knockdown
You (the prot) lose 10....5 energy per knockdown, enchant ends when you reach 0 energy
Ends after moving for 1...4..5 seconds
This actually makes it a preprot on relic runs mind you, and keeps it for UW matches against the RaO trash since people seem to complain about that
Smiterbooned

The rest are just troublesome, but arent nearly as glaringly bad, make haste is also fine, but there ought to be alternatives. I do think that song makes altar capping more skillful instead of less skillful, but there should be penalties for bringing more than one song like some teams do.

Reverend Dr · Nov 11, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

I would love to bring back ye old clusterRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO maps. The great 6 team fights on burial and the 5 man halls matches. Of course we'd first need at least 3-5 times as many people playing HA at all hours for this to work.

This hasn't been mentioned, but can we bring Death Penalty back to the HoH itself?

Skyros · Nov 11, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

WoW has never really been a prob for ranger spike.

1) rigor
2) spike another target
3) interrupt
4) spike another target
5) spike another target
6) Etc.

Just cause some bad players playing even worse rspike dun have the intelligence to get around WoW let alone a nerfed version of WoW doesnt mean the introduction to a counter system isnt a good proposed nerf. I still think its the best way to fixing WoW without smiterbooning it (unless thats want you want...)

Aura of Stability ending after first knock sounds ok (makes it a lil weak... id say a change in recharge time is also called for then.)

If you added maybe a secondary affect on ending after first knock like a small heal or something.

la_cabra_de_vida · Nov 12, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Easiest way to make ha better with out pulling hair would be to get nerfs to the 15 or so skills that make ha dumb....

forked arrow, searing flames, rao,...stuff like that.

shoogi · Nov 12, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Keep fetid

No.

Quote:

Remove unholy temples

No, no no no.

Quote:

Kill count broken tower

FCKING NO

Ciric · Nov 12, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

No.

No, no no no.

FCKING NO

lol whoru?

Fetid is the only low level open map in the rotation, far better then imperial. Unholy is a very poor relic map requiring you to have only a grasping + foes, and in order to keep from having 2 relics + relic in HoH it gets swapped for Sacred Temples, a map that Im pretty sure most would agree is better.

Kill count in fine in moderation, 2 major maps is 2 much, but kill count does require a decent amount of team coordination and requires different types of skills then any other objective (ranged snares, party wide speed buffs) and is all together good for the HA meta as long as there is only 1 map of it.

Sorry, go sway some more

Also on the aura nerf, while I don't really think it should be, you could always make it: Next Time target ally would be KDd they are not, and instead gain X health. Life a RoF or kinda like brace yourself.

Kyp Jade · Nov 12, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

The problem with aura is and will always be that it is too strong when stacked with veil (spotless doesnt count because your not stacking hex snares like a retard)

Ranged snares, specifically water eles used to be strong, even when people stacked 2 veils on thier runners. Why? Because it gave your team the second it needed to put a KD on the runner, and then get a soft-block, sometimes you can even get a hard-block if they are bad, and the only way to get away from it is passing. Since you can no longer KD, the ranged water snare is worthless, because the runner will never stay snared long enough to block it effectivly.

That means NOW ward v foes is the ONLY strong snare in the game that works. Why? Because if the ward placement is not terrible, the runner is slow long enough for 2-3 people to get a soft block. Ward is the only slow you can keep on long enough to soft-block, because its impossible to KD the runner. Its not like it used to be where they would guardian the runner to try to force the relic in, where you can at least still try for a KD. Its a solid f*** you no kd.

fyi, for those that dont know, soft-blocks are those where the runner can still move around, hard blocks are the 3 man total blocks or 2man+ wall blocks.

shoogi · Nov 12, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

lol whoru?

Fetid is the only low level open map in the rotation, far better then imperial. Unholy is a very poor relic map requiring you to have only a grasping + foes, and in order to keep from having 2 relics + relic in HoH it gets swapped for Sacred Temples, a map that Im pretty sure most would agree is better.

Kill count in fine in moderation, 2 major maps is 2 much, but kill count does require a decent amount of team coordination and requires different types of skills then any other objective (ranged snares, party wide speed buffs) and is all together good for the HA meta as long as there is only 1 map of it.

Sorry, go sway some more

Also on the aura nerf, while I don't really think it should be, you could always make it: Next Time target ally would be KDd they are not, and instead gain X health. Life a RoF or kinda like brace yourself.

First I would like to respond to the sway comment:

I have never swayed in my life. In addition, I have never iwayed (excluding one time, I joined it when the build first showed up and I didn't know what I was joining. I will also add that I was playing monk at that time), never vimwayed, never zergwayed, never smitewayed, and I believe I've only hwayed once or twice. So, lets agree that you don't know who I am or what I play, so don't post about that. And GG for flaming me for disagreeing with you, you are learning from borat, well done.

And I will continue on topic:

Fetid is a stupid map that offers nothing special. Choke points aren't a bad thing, Maps NEED to have choke points, so people can use them. Even Dark Chambers has choke points- bridge and the corners at each side where the stairs are. Everything Fetid has is 2 big elevations, that's a bad map. I don't know you, but bad players that ball in sh under bridge in uw usually tend to blame the bad map design. Eh.

Unholy- which relic runs require more than foes and grasping? Read kyp's post, foes is the only effective snare in HA, hexes don't stay for long enough and aura of stability is just a stupid broken skill that anet made to force pvp players to buy eotn, among other skills. Stuff like Water Trident will fail, aura=win. Hoh relics should go away.

Killcount- All I'm going to say is that if you thought killcount was good the last time around please say so because I can't believe that. Killcount limits builds HEAVILY. It got removed because it FAILED, and if you remember there was another petition in this forums back then, which almost anybody signed for, that cried for killcount to be removed.

And to continue the spirit of your post- I'm also sounding boratish- go rspike some more.

Reverend Dr · Nov 12, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Quote:

remove unholy temples

No, no no no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Hoh relics should go away.

?
Though I do hate relic runs in HoH for the above mentioned reasons.

I also like fetid, it is currently the only map where AoE doesn't give a team a very strong advantage. Underworld and Burial mounds don't even really have any open areas. The next location with a large open space is Golden, but even it has the bridge and gateways. Body blocking on relic runs, clusterRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs on KoTH, small cap area on capture points, just bring more AoE. People complain about the frequency of Ward of Foes being used, but there is just as much frequency of savannah and searing heat.

I would like to see kill count again, I dont know if I'd want it to stay. I remember when the largest part of a team's strategy was deciding when to go in. Now that KoTH has been changed to a point based system and kill count removed, every match is a rush in and butt heads as soon as possible. It was many times in these standoffs that the match was won before anyone ever scored a kill. I'm also pretty convinced that people who complained about kill count were largely people who didn't understand how it calculated who got credit. This was also the time of the 6-man tombs which is what failed more.

Ciric · Nov 12, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

First I would like to respond to the sway comment:

I have never swayed in my life. In addition, I have never iwayed (excluding one time, I joined it when the build first showed up and I didn't know what I was joining. I will also add that I was playing monk at that time), never vimwayed, never zergwayed, never smitewayed, and I believe I've only hwayed once or twice. So, lets agree that you don't know who I am or what I play, so don't post about that. And GG for flaming me for disagreeing with you, you are learning from borat, well done.

And I will continue on topic:

Fetid is a stupid map that offers nothing special. Choke points aren't a bad thing, Maps NEED to have choke points, so people can use them. Even Dark Chambers has choke points- bridge and the corners at each side where the stairs are. Everything Fetid has is 2 big elevations, that's a bad map. I don't know you, but bad players that ball in sh under bridge in uw usually tend to blame the bad map design. Eh.

Unholy- which relic runs require more than foes and grasping? Read kyp's post, foes is the only effective snare in HA, hexes don't stay for long enough and aura of stability is just a stupid broken skill that anet made to force pvp players to buy eotn, among other skills. Stuff like Water Trident will fail, aura=win. Hoh relics should go away.

Killcount- All I'm going to say is that if you thought killcount was good the last time around please say so because I can't believe that. Killcount limits builds HEAVILY. It got removed because it FAILED, and if you remember there was another petition in this forums back then, which almost anybody signed for, that cried for killcount to be removed.

And to continue the spirit of your post- I'm also sounding boratish- go rspike some more.

Pretty sure I flamed you because your post said No. No no no, Fcking No.

Anyway:

Fetid: Some close and tight maps are good, however, you already have plenty of them in rotation that make it so if your build doesnt have 1 fire ele or some other form of mass AoE your paying build down to any team that does. You should not be at a disadvantage on every map for not running a heavy brainless AoE build.

Unholy: Scared temples because of its levels and need to also control movement around the gate lock makes ranged snares and snares on multiple chars very benificial. However with it being at the end of rotation you can still spec just foes and grasping and hope to skip it. Scared Temples is jsut a far more dynamic map. Also, in HoH relic runs it is easy to keep up 2x veils on ur runners, however try doing that while your engaging the other team, and the other teams mesmer can EASILY strip you veils for snares to stick.

Kill Count did heavily control builds, thats because there were 2 maps of it and some of the skills you took you had no need for in other maps. However with cap points in the game, and better relic maps the party buffs and ranged snares will find their way into many builds so it wount be like you are 100% specing for kill count, and hell, you can even not spec at all, just understand that on 1 map you will probably be at a disadvantage.

The biggest problem with HA is how it allows for you to pack 90-100% of all the needed utlites into a build. You need to have to spec for certain maps and objectives and not be able to do everything as good as every other build, this allows for more unique builds to be used, and more skill full builds to see play.

Ka Tet · Nov 13, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Any word on a skill balance yet? I miss HA, but it seems pointless to go back until it gets some fixes. But anyway, here's my two cents on what would draw me back to the game.
The AB maps and Fetid River were a disaster from the start. When those maps were trialed, the HA community pleaded that they not be inserted into regular rotation. They should be removed. The AB maps have a place - it's called AB. Fetid should go because it provides no cover, and maps that don't provide cover remove the player skill aspect from the game and fail to reward the ability to strategize. I'll go along with the return of Sacred, if just so that Kyp doesn't hunt me down and try to poison my dog.
As far as skill balances go, I tend to focus on the skills that become need to have skills, because they tend to stale the meta the most. Weap. Warding is bad primarily because it cannot be removed. SoC and Make Haste would be fine if they were made unusable by Paragon secondaries. Aura Stability needs either a 2 sec casting time, much longer recharge time or an additional energy cost for each KD it prevents. Ward Foes and Grasp. Earth should require more attri points spent to be useful. I won't get into the R-Spike skill changes needed - I'll leave that to Borat.
In regard to map objectives, cap points are bad. I'm open-minded towards kill count as long as it's balanced by KotH objectives in the same rotation. As far as HoH goes, I dont think that there has ever been an objective that has garnered high approval ratings from the GW population, and I'm not sure there ever will. IMHO, the best choice is rotating objectives, because no single choice seems to be the right one. KotH as it is seems fine. Relics could prolly benefit from some way to reward speed as opposed to having the match as a tea party where everyone tries not to piss the other 2 teams off in order to avoid being ganked. I have no idea what objective you could add to replace cap points, but there must be something.
Waiting for a balanced HA;
Ka

Sadchaos · Nov 13, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Seriously though, I just want to see something unorthodox win halls. I want to see some wammos take halls and hold. Why? Because that is FUN. Sometimes I think people forget that this is a game, and it's supposed to be fun. I want to see variation.

So basically I want to see Anet buff Peace and Harmony.