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Dec 28, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30
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#41 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Guild: Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]
Profession: W/
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The complaining on the weapon spells really seems misplaced to me. They drop weapons while arrows are in the air, well good for them. Better players drop weapons while the caller is counting down. Hell I remember back during more spike prevalent metas when decent monks had a bad day and would infuse before the spike.
Its the instant reaction with enchant strips, condition/hex removal, enchant application, hex application, interrupts that even the best players simply cannot produce which make them so damn annoying to play against. |
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Dec 28, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15
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#42 | |
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McLovin!!!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Guild: Farming Zaishen [keYs]
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
__________________
 Merciless Moderator. |
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Dec 28, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59
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#43 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Also add: Aswell as the fact that, and please mark these words: COMPUTERS DO NOT MAKE MISTAKES! Sure, he might RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO every now and then, but it will ALWAYS have a good reason to do something. A real players, in your rspike scenario, MIGHT warding the wrong guy, heck, if 2 people are next to eachother, and this fail caller of yours fails to press shift (surpress action), so he clearly targets them, even then, your WoW STILL has to take time to "look there", to "analize the situation", aswell as make the final descision: 'casting WoW on one of the 2 targets'. Even if this all goes well, there is still only a 50% chance it will be the right party member he selected. With a hero, KNOWING what the enemy rspike is targetting, well there is no if's and but's,HE DOES NOT FLAW. If he's not teasing half your spikes, he's atleast making sure that it will either be: Wardinged, Shadowed, OR as many people also don't realize: Kaolei'ed. Whenever someone dies, or is about to 9 times out of 10, heroes will DROP their kaolei is a "last resort" heal, a fail safe, a free party wide Angelic Bond, with a 15 seconds recharge and a 70 heal. |
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Dec 28, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13
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#44 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tombs
Guild: In Soviet Russia Altar Caps You [CCCP]/Ruthless Amazons [ego]
Profession: W/E
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ITT: angry r spikers that can't beat gwen
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Dec 28, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17
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#45 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Michigan
Guild: Clan Dethryche [dth]
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Quote:
People will instinctively target friends on the other team/people they hate more than others more frequently during a match than random players...heroes take that "human factor" out of playing. They can't consider opportunity costs or causes and effects, have no friends and no enemies, and most importantly don't get tired @ 1 or 2 a.m. after playing 6 runs and hearing vent rage all day |
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Dec 29, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54
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#46 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Profession: Mo/Me
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Quote:
its a hero. it does not know the diffrence of an axe coming from a warrior and a spear coming from a monk hit things, it will just spam the wepons, and oh yea. CHANGE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING TARGETS. interupts sig of hum like you would with every person with sig of hum. the interupts... u got me there, hero's are too 1337 with interupts..... but meh, less QQ more makethingslikeheroesexplodewithaoe. |
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Dec 29, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09
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#47 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London, England
Profession: Mo/
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wow you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.
1) if you have time to wand shit instead of healing/protting/blowing shit up or kiting, you arent doing your job right. 2) theres 2 of these heroes, making 4 weapon spells. 2 of those 4 are on 8 second recharge. swapping targets every 4 seconds, considering kiting and foes is almost impossible unless their team is retarded and balls up more than enemies in pve. 3)making shit blow up is difficult when locked down by tease and power drain as well as it raping your melee in the face |
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Dec 29, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00
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#48 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Profession: Mo/Me
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and were back to the buildwars argument.
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Dec 29, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22
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#49 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
This is what I could make out of your statements: [build prof=Warrior/Mesmer][Dismember][Power Attack][Protector's Strike][Bull's Strike][Warrior's Endurance][Frenzy][Mantra of Concentration][Rush][/build] [build prof=Warrior/Mesmer][Earth Shaker][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Bull's Strike][Flail][Enraging Charge][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build] [build prof=Ranger/Mesmer][Melandru's Shot][Hunter's Shot][Savage Shot][Distracting Shot][Natural Stride][Apply Poison][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build] [build prof=Elementalist/Mesmer][Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Teinai's Heat][Rodgort's Invocation][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Fire Attunement][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build] [build prof=Mesmer/Necromancer][Diversion][Shame][Cry of Frustration][Psychic Distraction][Rend Enchantments][Power Drain][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build] [build prof=Ritualist/Mesmer][Channeled Strike][Ancestors' Rage][Offering of Spirit][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Mantra of Concentration][Death Pact Signet][/build] [build prof=Monk/Paragon][Spear of Lightning][Spear of Redemption][Life Sheath][Reversal of Fortune][Guardian][Spirit Bond][Holy Veil][Aura of Stability][/build] [build prof=Monk/Paragon][Spear of Lightning][Spear of Redemption][Word of Healing]["Make Haste!"][Patient Spirit][Infuse Health][Holy Veil][Song of Concentration][/build] OW GEEWZ, THE ANWSER SEEMZ SO OBVIOUS KNAW, WHY DIDNT WE COMZ UP WITH THIS OURSELVEZZZZ?! |
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Dec 29, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35
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#50 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Guild: The Order of Chaos Reborn [ToC]
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I agree with dropping heroes out of HA entirely. Ever since their introduction, they have been nothing but a source of shitway builds that PvE noobs can roll in and look pwn against some PvP lovers who aren't r9+. The numerous variants of heroway have been complained about for their overpoweredness time and time again. AND EVERY SINGLE ONE RELIES ON THE NEAR-FLAWLESS APPLICATION OF A WEIRD BAR. From Tainted to N/Rt healing to Mo smiting to Me/Rt party support. Bars with 4 or 5 different functions to it, that a human couldn't do well without a ton of practice, and even then he'd screw up on occasion.
The simple solution: no heroes in HA or GvG. They should never have been allowed in the first place. Heck, they were removed from AB of all things before being REDUCED in the "Premier" forms of GW PvP. How far have we fallen from the GWWC and GWFC that heroes are allowed at all in PvP. |
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Dec 29, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48
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#51 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2007
Guild: two
Profession: W/N
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Quote:
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Dec 29, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53
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#52 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...
Guild: Purple Lingerie - :D
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Everyone knows that izzy wont do anything except nerf a few skills. HA has always been full of shitway anyway. Heroes just make shitway more effective instead of using some noob to play the bar. Ever wonder why you never see a player use tainted flesh? Heroes know whats on you and when to reapply it.
Honestly best way to solve this is to trash HA... HA is dead move on back to RA. |
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Dec 29, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46
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#53 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Mar 2007
Profession: E/
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Keep the hero AI as is but just take em out of all PvP formats (sans hero battles (obviously)). The AI when heroes were first introduced was pretty terrible and buggy (pathing issues, refusal to use certain skills, cancel skills randomly, etc.). Anets come a long way from that and in that sense it was a step forward.
I know no one here likes to think about the PvE consequences of nerfs that happen in PvP but this is something to consider. I'm FAIRLY sure Anets not going to introduce a PvP version of the Hero AI (and it'll just be too much of a hassle and probably just cause more QQ). I like the hero AI. I think its great and its come along way. I like how i can set my heroes bar and just go. However I also dun like getting teased camped while HA. I dun like seeing multiple copies of WoW with hero AI causing the gameplay to deteriorate. I dun like people in PvP formats preferring to take 2 heroes instead of people. So in conclusion- don't nerf the hero AI. Remove them from the competitive aspect of GW. Its called PvP... not PvPvH. |
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Dec 29, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47
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#54 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Guild: Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Start looking at the field. If they are a bad spike caller then whoever is closed to them (c space) is going to get spiked next. Some target midliners almost exclusively, some target backliners, figure this out. A longer period between spikes usually means a change in calling tactic. Look to see who is vulnerable to spikes and you can usually guess who is going to be targeted before anyone ever targets them. Once you have figured out which targets are more vulnerable it greatly increases the reaction time of any defensive spells, to the point that it is not difficult to land them "while arrows are in the air." What is the argument? Heroes do it perfect 100% of the time, but a player will eventually mess up? Well, the obvious answer is disrupt them on the spike, if they do it 100% of the time then a single d-shot or diversion and its the match. But they really don't, they only apply spells on people being attacked. Switch targets more on warriors, c-space whatever in between r-spikes, they will throw out waste of spells. Treat them like an opponent and play against their weaknesses. If someone is good at pressure and small prot, but bad on big reaction, then spike more. If someone is good at catching spikes, but bad on small prot, then pressure more. If someone is good at both, but cannot switch well, switch up your tactics. (hint: heroes are good at catching big spikes, but bad, I mean terrible, on small prot). Look heroes are annoying as hell to play against due to their reacting to things serverside that the end player does not have access to. But reacting to spikes is not one of those. Players in fact have more to work with and when used properly can react to every spike better. |
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Dec 29, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09
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#55 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wales
Guild: Steel Phoenix
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Yeh guys, stop playing with scrubs and get Reverend Dr on your team, his indeph PvE knowledge will ensure victory.
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Dec 30, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15
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#56 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Liverpool
Profession: Mo/
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When I call I use crtl+shift+space so that there is no one able to tell by my movement who I am going to target next.
This draws a weapon spell more often than not too. Joe |
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Dec 30, 2008, 02:50 AM // 02:50
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#57 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Desert
Guild: Legions of Engalion [自由]
Profession: Mo/W
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yeah, and AI also use shield bash exclusively when you target them with an attack... fix by faking out. a human with shield bash is a lot less predictable... when will they use it? who knows. you can always predict when that weapon of shadow or warding is calling to fall. as soon as you hit the attack skill...
i mean, on the one hand we have people QQing that R-Spike is OP and on the other hand we have people QQing that Weapon spells on heros are OP. face up to it... people wanted a balance to R-Spike and Izzy got Hero AI fixed. there is your balance. live with it. how to counter your weapon-tease AI? fake calling, diversion/shame/blackout, how to deal with heros? bodyblock / AoE. Heros still haven;t worked out that they need to run away from AoE, they normally run out of it and then run back into it again. i also heard that VoR, Backfire and Diversion work on heros too cause they are too stupid to stop casting. Empathy and Insidious Parasite work really well... cause you know, when they are on guard they wand their targets non-stop. i also heard that wells are good on AI too.... throw down a profane and suffering. to be honest, i like heros in HA. they don;t rage quit, they dont QQ and they are reliable. the AI can be exploited from both sides good and bad. just know how to exploit it. |
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Dec 30, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15
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#58 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Aug 2008
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give heros aussie pings, all the pvp elitests are happy because now they suck, and aussies are happy because now they have people to play with.
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Dec 30, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48
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#59 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Mar 2007
Profession: E/
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Quote:
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Dec 30, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25
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#60 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Profession: Mo/Me
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Quote:
ok your retarded, and well, i have found my anti teaseway build that is also viable vs other teams. so im gonna leave you with your constant QQing and pointless arguing. peace out. |
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