Curse

Xx_Sorin_xX · Dec 24, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

For Mark of Insecurity..

The wording is bad in the skill or the programming was not made right (the former being the more likely, meaning the testing of the skill seems even more unlikely). The skill reads that things expire 90% faster, meaning that it should expire in a little more than half the time (because 100% faster would mean half the time).

However, the skill works as if 90% of the duration simply was never there. It should have been worded more along the lines of "Causes stances/enchantments to last 10% of the time". This is what I think they really did intend. Though how they didn't see this as a bad idea is beyond me.

deluxe · Dec 24, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Solution for Mark of Insecurity: It needs a longer recharge and shorter duration.
Let's take the duration and recharge of [[shadow shroud]!

5e, 1c, 20r
Elite Hex Spell. For 3...8...9 seconds, Causes 1...3...3 Health degeneration. Enchantments and stances expire 90% faster on target foe. Enchantments and stances last a minimum of 1 second.

That way, it's still very powerful, but can't be spammed and doesn't last forever like it did before.

kvndoom · Dec 24, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

[[peace and harmony] isn't a problem, it's a symptom. If our lame skill balancer (name withheld) hadn't overbuffed hexes to the point of absolute stupidity, there wouldn't be such a great need for a skill that removes so many hexes at once.

Since this is an RA thread, I'm going to speak in RA terms...
PnH is the lazy man's solution. "Let's just make a skill that gets rid of all the hexes, then I don't have to take the time to properly balance them." Sadly, the lazy man's solution never works. It just makes players in RA more reliant upon monks than they already were, and it was already bad to start with. So now, one good anti-stack elite hex removal exists, and it's absolutely useless unless on a monk primary. That is not addressing the problem, it's creating other problems. That is the attitude of a lazy fool. "Hexes aren't a problem anymore now. I've made a counter." After years and years of reading people explain that having a counter doesn't make something less overpowered, it makes me weep to know that our lame skill balancer (name withheld) has that same attitude.

There was a time when a monkless team (by "monkless," I mean no healer at all, be it Rit or some E/Mo or N/Rt gimmick), if it was coordinated and the players knew their builds, could win 10 in a row. I've done it many times. Those days are pretty much gone. The overabundance of "fire and forget" hexes make such a scenario almost impossible. Physicals: Stand still for 13 seconds and do nothing, or try to help and [empathy][insidious parasite] yourself to death. Casters: Stand still and do nothing for 20 seconds or [visions of regret][backfire] yourself to death. AOE suicide hexes make it impossible. A competent skill balancer would tone down hexes to the point that they have to be used skillfully, and not just cast again as soon as they recharge. The number of skills that can absolutely remove a single player from the game is overwhelmingly ridiculous. The fact that any skill can simultaneously remove multiple players from the game shows that somebody needs to put the pipe down.

maraxusofk · Dec 24, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

One skill simply makes a lot of skills/builds useless, this is imbalance.

HI, welcome to post NF guild wars.

the fast cast time and short recharge is a good thing. it makes it hard to cancel and easy to diversion.

Master Knightfall · Dec 24, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

RA is a joke and nobody cares what happens in RA anyways. It's just a playground for those who don't know how to really play PVP so they have a place to thump their chests, show off their silly spears from the sky and think they are something elite of course they aren't. Next topic plz.

Krill · Dec 24, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Jumping in a little late here but PaH doesn't own much besides groups that have a ton of curses / death / illusion hex spam for their pressure. Your only red bar up using PaH is patient spirit and d-shot bait skills like dwayna's kiss, signet of devotion and / or breeze. Also forces fairly high DF investment to make use of the enchantment effect. The only thing it excels at is keeping ur warriors clean of hexes and conditions so they can rape, dom hexes on you are still going to be a problem if you're under pressure unless you pre-prot yourself with the enchantment effect.

I don't RA a ton but I have picked up some to try out new builds since the update and I've beat plenty of PaH monks in decent groups with all varieties of builds. It's only really a problem with lamers that sync a PaH and WoH monk with two shit stompers, but that's a different story we are all aware of.

And I agree with Knightfall that RA is a joke anyway, take glad points out of RA and it might be the random haha fun it use to be.

Owik Gall · Dec 24, 2008, 09:13 AM // 09:13

I say, if they make that skill OP, may as well OP many others to meet up to it.

The Arching Healer · Dec 24, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

RA was dead on the moment noobs started to play it.

Dr.Jones · Dec 24, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

Since RA is random

oh man i loled for like 30 mins i dont know what game you are playing but lol. they need to put the random back into random arenas instead of fixing this. imo

Perfected Shadow · Dec 24, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

Since RA is random

LOL.

There's a goddamn broken mechanic that deserves more QQ than PaH imo.

TheHaxor · Dec 24, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

This is ...insulting. How did I get Glad7?

Yes, glad title is so difficult to get. It obviously takes a well known player such as yourself to achieve.

How about we discuss a real problem like how half the idiots in RA only play sins? Having 3 assassin teammates every other entry is much more annoying than some shit bar that can be powered through by decent physical pressure.

ManMadeGod · Dec 24, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

PnH is the lazy man's solution. "Let's just make a skill that gets rid of all the hexes, then I don't have to take the time to properly balance them." Sadly, the lazy man's solution never works. It just makes players in RA more reliant upon monks than they already were, and it was already bad to start with.

Agree.
But I never dare to expect a BIG update with well designed re-balance of skills.

Hex itself is an endless argument.
I feel sorry about my attitude

, but we can discuss something that can be fixed much easier.
From now on, let's talk about the suggestion of the skills update instead of controverting my previous, improper quotes.

Pn'H just need to be toned down a little bit.
But MoI is obviously bugged, and Palm Strike needs to be fixed.

themadhatterxxx · Feb 02, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

[[peace and harmony] isn't a problem, it's a symptom. If our lame skill balancer (name withheld) hadn't overbuffed hexes to the point of absolute stupidity, there wouldn't be such a great need for a skill that removes so many hexes at once.

Since this is an RA thread, I'm going to speak in RA terms...
PnH is the lazy man's solution. "Let's just make a skill that gets rid of all the hexes, then I don't have to take the time to properly balance them." Sadly, the lazy man's solution never works. It just makes players in RA more reliant upon monks than they already were, and it was already bad to start with. So now, one good anti-stack elite hex removal exists, and it's absolutely useless unless on a monk primary. That is not addressing the problem, it's creating other problems. That is the attitude of a lazy fool. "Hexes aren't a problem anymore now. I've made a counter." After years and years of reading people explain that having a counter doesn't make something less overpowered, it makes me weep to know that our lame skill balancer (name withheld) has that same attitude.

There was a time when a monkless team (by "monkless," I mean no healer at all, be it Rit or some E/Mo or N/Rt gimmick), if it was coordinated and the players knew their builds, could win 10 in a row. I've done it many times. Those days are pretty much gone. The overabundance of "fire and forget" hexes make such a scenario almost impossible. Physicals: Stand still for 13 seconds and do nothing, or try to help and [empathy][insidious parasite] yourself to death. Casters: Stand still and do nothing for 20 seconds or [visions of regret][backfire] yourself to death. AOE suicide hexes make it impossible. A competent skill balancer would tone down hexes to the point that they have to be used skillfully, and not just cast again as soon as they recharge. The number of skills that can absolutely remove a single player from the game is overwhelmingly ridiculous. The fact that any skill can simultaneously remove multiple players from the game shows that somebody needs to put the pipe down.

This is the truth right here. Im fairly new to RA but it does get rather annoying when...
What the hell am i supposed to do as a warrior after some goddamn noob necro just unloaded all his hexes on me and is waiting to recast on me as soon as he can (insidious parasite lingering curse faintheartedness foul feast then plague touch...etc.)?
I think its rediculous that the recharge times of these hexes is shorter than the length of them. Take lightning reflexes or whirling defense for example, ok 75% unblockable but very long recharge times, i can wild blow thru one and wait for the other to go down if a ranger even has both and then he's defenseless, and i can take him down but what the hell is gonna stop or temporarily halt a necro from pwning me?
I actually did have a 10 game win streak without any healer on my team last week, 2 rangers, 1 derv and me (warrior) but this was early in the morning and we probably got lucky.

I can run up to any enemy and go toe to toe with them. 50% chance i might win. 50% chance i might lose.-> Balanced?

I hope to god the necro doesn't target me so i can take him out before he makes me useless. -> Overpowered?

defect · Feb 02, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

There are better options than PnH in RA.It's OP don't get me wrong, but lacks healing power.WoH still is, and most likely will be for a long time to come, the best choice for a monk in RA

bungusmaximus · Feb 03, 2009, 07:57 AM // 07:57

P&H in arenas is really bad for obvious reasons, I would wonder however what a P&H, a rit channel resto hybrid and 2 shit stompers would be like. The skill is indeed rather baedly designed. It's only a matter of time until people will come up with some lame. Fixing this, however, takes a deeper look in things then just nuking P&H.

Ariena Najea · Feb 03, 2009, 08:14 AM // 08:14

People keep insisting that [[Peace and Harmony] renders hexes useless, actually, they render stupid hexers useless.

This is a similar problem to that of warrior, dervish, ranger, etc players in RA who never think to switch targets, or play even a little unpredictably. If a Monk is under [[Guardian] and a blocking stance, odds are you are wasting your time attacking that player at that time. Most players don't seem to realize this, and will auto-attack until either they or their target dies.

Let's analyze PnH for a moment. It essentially removes all of the conditions and hexes you could possibly have inflicted on a single target, costs only 5 energy, and takes only 1/4 of a second to activate. So what? As far as I'm concerned, a seven second recharge to do anything means I can spread my hexes and conditions around and the Monk cannot possibly remove them all at once. I'll dump a non-essential hex on the Monk and then unload on someone else, and most of the time the Monk ignores their teammate and takes care of their own hex. That means you have seven seconds of hex/condition freedom on one of their teammates, seeing as how most of the PnH builds I've seen don't carry a secondary removal. Maybe [[Cure Hex], but that takes too long to recharge and can be interrupted reliably when facing a poor player.

So really, PnH isn't the be-all-end-all of RA Monk elites. It just makes things easier for unskilled players to do their job. When up against a skilled team, the PnH Monk won't stand a chance.

BoondockSaint · Feb 03, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

People keep insisting that [[Peace and Harmony] renders hexes useless, actually, they render stupid hexers useless.

This is a similar problem to that of warrior, dervish, ranger, etc players in RA who never think to switch targets, or play even a little unpredictably. If a Monk is under [[Guardian] and a blocking stance, odds are you are wasting your time attacking that player at that time. Most players don't seem to realize this, and will auto-attack until either they or their target dies.

Let's analyze PnH for a moment. It essentially removes all of the conditions and hexes you could possibly have inflicted on a single target, costs only 5 energy, and takes only 1/4 of a second to activate. So what? As far as I'm concerned, a seven second recharge to do anything means I can spread my hexes and conditions around and the Monk cannot possibly remove them all at once. I'll dump a non-essential hex on the Monk and then unload on someone else, and most of the time the Monk ignores their teammate and takes care of their own hex. That means you have seven seconds of hex/condition freedom on one of their teammates, seeing as how most of the PnH builds I've seen don't carry a secondary removal. Maybe [[Cure Hex], but that takes too long to recharge and can be interrupted reliably when facing a poor player.

So really, PnH isn't the be-all-end-all of RA Monk elites. It just makes things easier for unskilled players to do their job. When up against a skilled team, the PnH Monk won't stand a chance.

This was a post worth quoting because it is spot on. PnH really forces the player to be aware of their sorroundings and not mindlessly spam their hexes. Also as far as conditions are concerned, depending on the class, they are fairly easy to apply, but it you are waiting for that deep-wound spike or daze that will finish off the monk, you need to watch for PnH and time your attacks. Also, as been said before, PnH ties up an elite that give you no direct healing, (except from devine favor.)

That being said, I think PnH need a bit of a nerf, (perhaps a slightly longer recharge or a 3/4 sec cast) but as I say with all my post advocating a nerf, DO NOT KILL THE SKILL. I understand the developers have a tough job but I am still very critical of how they handeled skills like [smiters boon].

EDIT: I forgot to mention that syncing in RA is what is really killing it. It really should be more difficult, if not next to impossible to do. I'm not sure how but there has to be a way to fix that.

The Arching Healer · Feb 03, 2009, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

I heard [Diversion] and [Shame] are good.

[holy veil] r gud

Age · Feb 03, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I wouldn't want to see it target other as it is the only elite hex remover in Prophecies on pve note it would be nice if Lina got this instead of shield of regen.

Holy Viel would be much better used saving your elite spot for LS,ZB or WoH.

Strife17 · Feb 03, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

P&H SUCKS

why? the healing is way too poor and since other don't bother taking self heal -> it fails.

and it's sooooo easy to beat

just check for other teammembers who don't have secondary prof /w that aren't blocking fortresses and gogogo warrior!!! p&h can't keep up with the healing. for sure.

also ele with heavy spike dmg is good, just don't hope they have ranger or hope that fast cast triggers.

WoH > P&H

In my opinion that is.