Curse

Zaiden · Feb 12, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Hi,

I was recently browsing the Heroes' Ascent forums and was surprised to see that you guy regretted the so called "old HA". I have only started to HA a lil' before the 6v6 era (~ViM), so I haven't experienced the Golden Ages of HA. I have to admit that I actually enjoy the actual HA and I'd like some veterans to give me a brief description of what it used to be, just so that I can get a taste of what I missed... At the moment, I regret not hoppping in PvP as soon as I got the game. Please give me a "photography" of the old but goldie Tombs of the primeval King.

HA looks to be so fun from your point of view.

-Bald

NB-Sorry for my crappy english, I am from Montreal (Frenchies!!)

knives · Feb 12, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Well, Burial Mounds use to be an 8 team map. Usually 6/8 of the teams were minion factories. (There was no limit cap to minions back then.) This led to me having about 1 fps the whole map and there was never a clear winner.

Also, Dual E/Mo smite was all the rage before the ER + recharge on skills like draw condition nerf.

Ray · Feb 12, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

There was never a golden age of HA.

Seraphim of Chaos · Feb 12, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

There was never a golden age of HA.

This is true.

Kyp Jade · Feb 12, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

It was really really fun before Iway came around, that was really broken pre-nerf

edit
before observer mode and the death of build ingenuity

Zaiden · Feb 12, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Ohhhh...

8way maps....

Looks fun

Lykan · Feb 12, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaiden

Ohhhh...

8way maps....

Looks fun

Not really seeing as you had even more ganking going on than now.

JR · Feb 12, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Beta was the only time I can remember tombs being fun. That or being the first to discover something broken and abusing it there, such as when Dust Trap was doing ridiculous amounts of damage.

Akaraxle · Feb 12, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by knives

Well, Burial Mounds use to be an 8 team map. Usually 6/8 of the teams were minion factories. (There was no limit cap to minions back then.) This led to me having about 1 fps the whole map and there was never a clear winner.

Also, Dual E/Mo smite was all the rage before the ER + recharge on skills like draw condition nerf.

Burial, 8 team? It was 6 afaik.

wuzzman · Feb 12, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Golden age for HA? when pugging didn't equal shit.

Skye Marin · Feb 12, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

6 team maps were poor because they took over 40 minutes to resolve and you get two fame tops.

Some folks remember Ghostly Hero Altar Holding fondly as the only event in HoH, but I never understood how turtling and body-blocking was a fair test of skill.

Josh · Feb 12, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

There never was a golden age of Heroes' Ascent.. Only a golden age of Tomb of Primeval Kings.

The other veteran players should understand what I mean.

Sha Noran · Feb 12, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

It isn't so much the golden age of HA that the veterans miss imho, it's really the golden age of PvP in general. That is, when teamwork, intelligent build making and actual player skill mattered more than anything else... a combination of observer mode, shadow stepping, binding rituals, Dervish forms, Paragons and heroes spelled the destruction of Guild Wars PvP as most true "veterans" miss it.

Zaiden · Feb 12, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

There never was a golden age of Heroes' Ascent.. Only a golden age of Tomb of Primeval Kings.

The other veteran players should understand what I mean.

I`m hoping that this treads will make you guys nostalgic :3 and that it'll bring back good memories.

Quote:

It isn't so much the golden age of HA that the veterans miss imho, it's really the golden age of PvP in general. That is, when teamwork, intelligent build making and actual player skill mattered more than anything else... a combination of observer mode, shadow stepping, binding rituals, Dervish forms, Paragons and heroes spelled the destruction of Guild Wars PvP as most true "veterans" miss it.

Do you mean that factions is about when PvP started to decline?

Oh god I envy you guys so much for having experienced that part of HA's history that I didn't get a chance to experience

. More descriptions

plz.

Not really seeing as you had even more ganking going on than now.

As for that I have to disagree, Ganking GANK (now CC) might be fun as hell, as they hold all night.

infymys · Feb 12, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaiden

As for that I have to disagree, Ganking GANK (now CC) might be fun as hell, as they hold all night.

If they don't gank you first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydan

Not really seeing as you had even more ganking going on than now.

It wasn't at all that bad in the days of Tombs. Ever since 6v6, and when kill count and a lever in Scarred Earth was implemented. That's when full on ganks started to happen. And with the current rotation in HoH, ganking is now sadly part of the game.

Sha Noran · Feb 13, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

You are simply ignorant of high end HA if you don't understand that ganking isn't really any more or less common now than it was then. Ganking is a personality trait, not an invented strategy. I'm not trying to be rude, but seriously, you just weren't playing HA's King of the Hill maps during the old days if you are not aware that ganking was quite prevalent then also.

Zaiden, as you seem genuinely interested in how different the game environment was then than it is now, I'll take a moment to highlight a couple gameplay aspects that were crucial then that are completely forgotten now.

#1) Energy denial: It was common for even semi-skilled energy denial Mesmers (and the occasional crackpot Ranger or Necro) to be able to very closely judge an enemy player's energy supply, along with possessing a good eye for when the enemy players switched to their higher energy sets. For quite, quite some time it was important for every caster on the high end to have lower, regular, and then high energy sets to specifically hide energy from energy denial characters. Now, it's rare to find anyone who is good at this because, frankly, the amounts of damage that can be dealt now are significantly greater, and it's much more intelligent (build wise) and easier to drain the opponents energy through forcing them to use it rather than to take it away directly.

#2) Frontline skill: Before shadow stepping, it was very, very difficult to score any kills or even significant damage with a melee character unless you were very good at positioning yourself as to confuse the enemy's Monks regarding your target. Yes, there are definitely still players who are very skilled at this, but it's no longer required to carefully choose what targets to build Adrenaline on in order to keep yourself close to your real target for the spike; now, if you even need Adrenaline for your melee combo, you can most likely incorporate a decent shadow step into your build and completely disguise your real target from the enemy until the spike is hitting.

#3) Secondary mattered: Yes, secondary matters now and always will, however the way Heal Party is thrown on an Ele or a Ward tossed onto a Mesmer now is not at all the type of clever build design that we saw in what you're reverently calling the Golden Ages (you might lol at some of these, but the designs are clever even if they relied on broken mechanics).

Ex.1[skill]gale[/skill][skill]eviscerate[/skill]

Ex.2[skill]blackout[/skill][skill]gale[/skill]

Ex.3[skill]crippling shot[/skill][skill]blackout[/skill]

Ex.4[skill]ether prodigy[/skill][skill]heal party[/skill]

Ex.5[skill]tiger's fury[/skill][skill]"I will avenge you!"[/skill]

Ex.6[skill]"victory is mine!"[/skill][skill]dust trap[/skill]

There are more, but those hint at a few builds that old school players may hate or love, but will certainly recognize.

Zaiden · Feb 13, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I was actually starting HA when those builds were still around. My first time to Halls was with ViM

as for the other builds, I have seen them. I remember that time when there were gale warriros everywhere, just before aNET putted gale at 10 energy and 2 secs KD

. Yep OLDSCHOOL iway > newschool iway

. As for the ether prodigy HP, some teams are still using it

.

Horace The Great · Feb 13, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

It used to be 8v8 with other maps as well.
- No capture points.
- Only altar holding in HoH and Courtyard and Broken Tower (last who caps wins)

Builds played allot in that time:
- Dual warrior spikes
- Ranger spikes with double order
- Iway with tigers fury and iway
- Dual e-surge
- Old Blood Spike
- VIM
- Other balanced

Fire ele's were rare.
Almost all balanced played with 3 monks, and a mesmer, and had enough damage to do perfect spikes on high armors.

And allot more which I cant think of right now.

Killed u man · Feb 13, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace The Great

And allot more which I cant think of right now.

And that is why Early days were better. Not the "chore" HA has become today, but the versatility, the "freshness", the "one-day"-wonders. (Like Mo/W with Backbreaker wuth?)

Lorekeeper · Feb 13, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

And that is why Early days were better. Not the "chore" HA has become today, but the versatility, the "freshness", the "one-day"-wonders. (Like Mo/W with Backbreaker wuth?)

you mean builds like this?

to be honest, even if i were to continue making builds, i dont get the players good enough to see them into fruition so all i can do when i HA is join the same old boring builds or if i want to form to dilute my builds to a level that your average HA player can understand.

In HA skillbar>players which is why build variety is so low. If player>skill bar then you would see a great deal more builds because you would have the players to run them. Right now most HAers wanna do is farm fame with mindless buttonmash builds or 321 spikes... innovation never comes easy, same as in real life, you see little innovation in real life from anyone but the richest companies because the development costs in the short term are far more apparent than the long term benefits of realising new innovative products. The same goes for attitudes in HA, players care little about running different builds because it requires them to practice playing a different bar than what they are used to even and if it might win them alot of fame if they do get good and run it well they rather stick with what they know NOW and get fame NOW...