Curse

Bacon Was A Monk · Feb 24, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

They already tried 6v6. It killed HA faster than a bat outta hell. Why try it again? There's nothing wrong with 8v8. The problem is heroes and the absence of skill balancing.

Reverend Dr · Feb 24, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

It really just takes the hero teasing once at the right time for a PS chain to devastate. It is not going to do it every single time, but with four defensive casters, matches taking forever, and an 8 second recharge on the whole chain, it is eventually going to happen (hell can be standard magehunter/primal instead of PS). And when it does, it is very annoying and rather rage inducing to have what should be uninterruptable skills to be interrupted.

I've played with builds where our only big health swing is infuse. It is not at all uncommon for infuse to be teased. It is not that uncommon for two infuses in a row to be teased(well interrupted). And we've had a number of instances where it occurs three times in a row.

It doesn't happen ever match, but it will happen at some point during the night, where a tease bot just gets everything right and ends up having an otherwise bad team roll us. This is infuriating.

TheHaxor · Feb 24, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

It really just takes the hero teasing once at the right time for a PS chain to devastate. It is not going to do it every single time, but with four defensive casters, matches taking forever, and an 8 second recharge on the whole chain, it is eventually going to happen (hell can be standard magehunter/primal instead of PS). And when it does, it is very annoying and rather rage inducing to have what should be uninterruptable skills to be interrupted.

I've played with builds where our only big health swing is infuse. It is not at all uncommon for infuse to be teased. It is not that uncommon for two infuses in a row to be teased(well interrupted). And we've had a number of instances where it occurs three times in a row.

It doesn't happen ever match, but it will happen at some point during the night, where a tease bot just gets everything right and ends up having an otherwise bad team roll us. This is infuriating.

That never happened all weekend. We played all weekend. We played all last week. It hasn't happened yet. You shouldn't be infusing against palm sins anyway.

This is like crying about the Ghostly's dshot. However, it is more likely to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you than a tease.

zling · Feb 24, 2009, 10:26 AM // 10:26

TheHaxor, not everyone locks their Tease hero on a single char you know... when they dont the hero interrupts "random shit" as you said however this so called "random shit" can very well be 1/4 second casts such as RoF and Infuse...
and heck, if a *smart* player controls Norgu/Gwen than he will lock rotate the hero on different characters, say when your team spikes you lock it on the Infuser, you're almost guaranteed for an interrupt there. than you unlock it for general interruptions or lock it onto the other team's Mesmer(assuming they have 1, prefferably Human) or something... heck watching Norgu interrupt Gwen's Tease should be funny :P
however these *smart* players that actually run Teaseway are pretty rare, I gotta hand it to you there.

oh and good luck managing your Monk's energy without channeling, GoLE or whatever else it is that you use for e-management. all these prots suddenly become hard to cast, not to mention extremely interruptible by the same Tease hero. so saying learn2prot is an epic fail on your part Imho.

now I'm not saying Teaseway is unbeatable, far from it. however I do say that a *smart* group that actually runs it instead of a better *cough* balanced *cough* build will do very well and WTFPWN other so called *balanced* builds with relative ease unless played by very top tier players.

Grj · Feb 24, 2009, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

This is the biggest joke I've ever seen. The hero interrupts random shit. It turns out that a lot of the time the shit they interrupt is useless. Whatever it gets locked on is screwed, but that's true when a human dom mes camps you as well. Interrupting the shit out of one guy isn't effective shutdown.

It is effective shutdown when its run against bad teams, but why look in the mirror and admit you're bad when you can just blame it on the AI? You know, like most players do when its a build they're getting owned by. Build gets nerfed, the next build takes its place, player's asks for another nerf until what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

Besides, it won't interrupt you if you are out of its range. Learn how to position yourself imo.

Its nothing to do with my play and positioning, its all about the overpowered AI.

And yes that was scarcasm

oh and if these heroes own so bad why are you bringing the extra players? Why not just bring you're own heroes and own them with you superior skill right? Oh wait...

Killed u man · Feb 24, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

I concider me, and my friends, one of the best "guilds" in HA atm. We BARELY play, but when we did (Month ago), we rickrolled keYs, Crystal, even rawr and dR when they still had their occasional run.

What are these magical "godly" teams you speak off, as I can recall getting beat with balanced by a certain team over and over again. (As I, I clearly must be doing something right, as there isn't 1 team out there that manages to beat us over and over again).

Do you even understand the redicilousy when you say "bad teams loose to Teaseway". I have the feeling you DON'T EVEN PLAY HA. If so, just go back to the campfire...

If you DO play HA, take a tip from the elite:

Loosing matches because you get interrupted on 1/4's doesn't make you bad at HA, it makes U an unlucky motherRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOer.

We, Me a Nick mainly, LOVE to "boratstomp" all these heroways, and usually (Usually is an understatement, 95% of the time really), we get straight full runs to HoH pretty much whiping every "teaseway" in under 2 minutes (Even with their 5 defensive casters).

Nontheless, EVERY TIME we loose, is one too many. R3+ PvE'ers SHOUDLN'T under NO CIRCUMSTANCES ever beat a R10+ experienced team, even if it's only 5% of the time.
Even worse is that they are running a brainless buttonbash.

Gwen/Norgu is winning matches for PvE'ers, that is what is wrong with Teaseway.

6v6 won't change that, removing heroes will...

TheHaxor · Feb 24, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

TheHaxor, not everyone locks their Tease hero on a single char you know... when they dont the hero interrupts "random shit" as you said however this so called "random shit" can very well be 1/4 second casts such as RoF and Infuse...
and heck, if a *smart* player controls Norgu/Gwen than he will lock rotate the hero on different characters, say when your team spikes you lock it on the Infuser, you're almost guaranteed for an interrupt there. than you unlock it for general interruptions or lock it onto the other team's Mesmer(assuming they have 1, prefferably Human) or something... heck watching Norgu interrupt Gwen's Tease should be funny :P
however these *smart* players that actually run Teaseway are pretty rare, I gotta hand it to you there.

Spiking with teaseway? Good joke. More like trampling ox shit in AoE mirite. In that case, I would rather let the dumbass infuse because it doesn't get rid of the pressure on the team. It will probably end up putting more pressure on the team.

As stated before, the ghostly interrupts 1/4s casts. Do I hear you or anyone else crying about that? No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

oh and good luck managing your Monk's energy without channeling, GoLE or whatever else it is that you use for e-management. all these prots suddenly become hard to cast, not to mention extremely interruptible by the same Tease hero. so saying learn2prot is an epic fail on your part Imho.

We ran a stance monk all weekend. He only had energy management if people were stupid enough to train him.

Lrn2prot is a valid argument because most the teams we played last weekend refused to prot their tease hero and their frontline. SoA will completely kill the damage from someone getting knocked in AoE. I rarely got teased on my prots all weekend. Any team that was stupid enough to lock the hero on me for a period of time died even faster to our offense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

now I'm not saying Teaseway is unbeatable, far from it. however I do say that a *smart* group that actually runs it instead of a better *cough* balanced *cough* build will do very well and WTFPWN other so called *balanced* builds with relative ease unless played by very top tier players.

There aren't any top tier players that play tombs. There is no such thing as a "balanced" build in tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

\Gwen/Norgu is winning matches for PvE'ers, that is what is wrong with Teaseway.

6v6 won't change that, removing heroes will...

You're so stupid. The heroes aren't the problem. As I've said before, it's the skills people bring on the heroes that are the problem (HI WoW AND PwK). Those skills are OP no matter who takes them. If you haven't figure that out by this point there isn't any hope for you.

Reverend Dr · Feb 24, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

That never happened all weekend. We played all weekend. We played all last week. It hasn't happened yet. You shouldn't be infusing against palm sins anyway.

Read what I wrote. You are correct with 3 monks and a me/rt you shouldn't have to infuse against PS sins (then again, enjoy 20 minutes matches where no one can kill anyone). We aren't running that, we aren't running monks. No dwayna's, no patient, no word, our large health swing is infuse. Maybe we shouldn't have to infuse, maybe we should just 'run normal monks,' but we also shouldn't have to worry about a 1/4 second cast being interrupted multiple times throughout a match.

You are also missing the point entirely. Okay maybe you are "super pro" and don't ever have problems with heros or teams that run them. Well good for you, I hope you enjoy playing alone because everyone else is fed up and quitting because it is just no longer fun to play.

TheHaxor · Feb 24, 2009, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Read what I wrote. You are correct with 3 monks and a me/rt you shouldn't have to infuse against PS sins (then again, enjoy 20 minutes matches where no one can kill anyone). We aren't running that, we aren't running monks. No dwayna's, no patient, no word, our large health swing is infuse. Maybe we shouldn't have to infuse, maybe we should just 'run normal monks,' but we also shouldn't have to worry about a 1/4 second cast being interrupted multiple times throughout a match.

I'm assuming you're talking about IWAY. I don't know why you insist on running it if infuse getting teased is a problem.

Reverend Dr · Feb 24, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

1. We don't have a single person that plays monk in the guild. (yes, we can monk as a part of the 3monk 1me/rt backline, but we really hate super long, lame ass matches and running the meta teaseway is just asking for them)

2. Nothing gets as much rage as winning flawlessly as IWAY (or calling a non-flawless win as flawless)

3. We should not have to adjust a build because a 1/4 second cast gets regularly interrupted. Diversion and shame hurt us a lot as well, but we don't complain about those as that is the nature of diversion and shame, but that is not the nature of interrupts. We are not complaining when we let ourselves get quarterupted after standing up. We are not complaining about when someone that has been spamming savage+distracting+d-chop all match and lands one.

Now you are right in that a lot of the blame lies in the overpowered rit skills that are fueled by the me energy gain. The WoW usage is not as gamebreaking as Borat keep posting, nor is the bot's usage of it beyond the realm of a good player, though the bot's skill at this is usually far beyond the skill of the players that usually end up grabbing her and I find her carrying these teams to be, not game breaking, but annoying to say the least.

Even if the on recharge energy gain of the Mesmer skills fueling the overpowered rit skills get addressed, as long as there are heroes then the next batch of skills that the AI can use better than players will emerge.

Zenos Squad · Feb 24, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Remove Heroes' Ascent entirely.

Problem solved.

Killed u man · Feb 25, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

As stated before, the ghostly interrupts 1/4s casts. Do I hear you or anyone else crying about that? No.

Your clearly havn't been playing, are active in these forums, for a long time. I made a thread a year ago orso how the Ghostly should NOT have 2 such vital skills on his bars.
During the LoD days, where LoD = stay alive, there was QQ'threads on these forums regularly about people saying the ghostly Dshotted/Chopped LoD, and they whiped...

Just 1 week ago, I got teased on Channeling, having to wait 15 seconds to get it pdrained, having to wait another 15 seconds to get it dshotted by the Ghostly. It's a miracle I kept us alive 8+ minutes against this teaseway, but that full minute without Channeling necked us. The Ghostly definatly won their game, not how it should be.
I gues you're more in favor of a Rock/Paper/Scissor gamestyle? Just go in, play RPS and whoever loses resigns. HA is leaning towards that right now... If there Heroes happen to be in their 1337-AI (There clearly is 2 Different AI batches, Zaishen is living proof, sometimes their Monks can pre-catch spikes with Prot Spirit, and WoH it faster than an infuse. Yet sometimes, they barely use any skills and let everyone die)
The AI is random, and it can work both in favor of you, or the heroway. This is definatly FAIR from a pure chance point of view (50/50% chance to win anyone?), but skillwise, it doesn't matter how good you are, as the Heroes decide the match. You might as well go in with 6 empty skills bars and then let the 4 heroes (2v2) fight it out...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

There aren't any top tier players that play tombs. There is no such thing as a "balanced" build in tombs.

Last time I checked, I held HoH yesterday with:
Primal Rage
WE daggers (Me

)
Dual Pew Pew Rangers
OoV spammer
Mo/P

That's about the closest thing to balance I've seen in HA. WHAT is balanced even, according to you? Not abusing buttonbash gimmicks? EVERYTHING is button-bash to a certain extend, my point is that BAD people can "rape" sheit with their PS-builds, whilst their heroes make sure everything gets shut down...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

You're so stupid. The heroes aren't the problem. As I've said before, it's the skills people bring on the heroes that are the problem (HI WoW AND PwK). Those skills are OP no matter who takes them. If you haven't figure that out by this point there isn't any hope for you.

Ow yes, I c wut you did thear. A hero INTERRUPTING a 1/4 CAST isn't the problem, it's the skill, right...
Cuz if you'll never Tease, it's not like people will use CoF instead. Or any other elite. For a long time, AI was reasonably beatable, but ever since that certain AI update (Go check wiki, it was a HUGE AI update for the PvE'ers), heroes were able to outperform real players on interrupt bars...

Warding and Kaolei are definatly overpowered. And the hero using them to the extend is aswell.
The interupting, tough, is just as much of a problem as their protting abilities.

Once again, getting interrupted on 1/4's should but an exception, not a rule. Whilst it clearly is a rule with a hero. (Getting teased on HB/Infuse/Patient spirit all the time)

TheHaxor · Feb 25, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Your clearly havn't been playing, are active in these forums, for a long time. I made a thread a year ago orso how the Ghostly should NOT have 2 such vital skills on his bars.
During the LoD days, where LoD = stay alive, there was QQ'threads on these forums regularly about people saying the ghostly Dshotted/Chopped LoD, and they whiped...

I hold halls everyday. The point being that most of the people are willing to accept the ghostly haxing them, but they aren't willing to accept when Gwen does it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Just 1 week ago, I got teased on Channeling, having to wait 15 seconds to get it pdrained, having to wait another 15 seconds to get it dshotted by the Ghostly. It's a miracle I kept us alive 8+ minutes against this teaseway, but that full minute without Channeling necked us. The Ghostly definatly won their game, not how it should be.
I gues you're more in favor of a Rock/Paper/Scissor gamestyle? Just go in, play RPS and whoever loses resigns. HA is leaning towards that right now... If there Heroes happen to be in their 1337-AI (There clearly is 2 Different AI batches, Zaishen is living proof, sometimes their Monks can pre-catch spikes with Prot Spirit, and WoH it faster than an infuse. Yet sometimes, they barely use any skills and let everyone die)
The AI is random, and it can work both in favor of you, or the heroway. This is definatly FAIR from a pure chance point of view (50/50% chance to win anyone?), but skillwise, it doesn't matter how good you are, as the Heroes decide the match. You might as well go in with 6 empty skills bars and then let the 4 heroes (2v2) fight it out...

How is it rock paper scissors? I never lose to teaseway in a 1v1. Does that make the game rock, paper, scissors, rocket launcher and I'm the rocket launcher? The heroes never decide the outcome of the match. Heaven forbid the hero interrupts your channeling twice in a row. I mean it isn't like most dom mesmers don't camp your ass and do the same thing (oh wait). It's just as annoying no matter who does it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Last time I checked, I held HoH yesterday with:
Primal Rage
WE daggers (Me

)
Dual Pew Pew Rangers
OoV spammer
Mo/P

That's about the closest thing to balance I've seen in HA. WHAT is balanced even, according to you? Not abusing buttonbash gimmicks? EVERYTHING is button-bash to a certain extend, my point is that BAD people can "rape" sheit with their PS-builds, whilst their heroes make sure everything gets shut down...

That isn't even remotely balanced. The only thing you did was 3-2-1 for kills (you were playing suboptimal if you weren't). Most people think that a balanced build is one that represents a variety of different classes. I find this to be an incorrect evaluation because you can represent a variety of different classes in a build but still be limited in your style of play. A balanced build is able to play a variety of different styles depending on the opponent and map. It is also pretty much impossible to counter. This doesn't mean that it is always at a build advantage, but it does give one a chance to win no matter what team you play against. This is clearly not the case for that build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Ow yes, I c wut you did thear. A hero INTERRUPTING a 1/4 CAST isn't the problem, it's the skill, right...
Cuz if you'll never Tease, it's not like people will use CoF instead. Or any other elite. For a long time, AI was reasonably beatable, but ever since that certain AI update (Go check wiki, it was a HUGE AI update for the PvE'ers), heroes were able to outperform real players on interrupt bars...

Warding and Kaolei are definatly overpowered. And the hero using them to the extend is aswell.
The interupting, tough, is just as much of a problem as their protting abilities.

Once again, getting interrupted on 1/4's should but an exception, not a rule. Whilst it clearly is a rule with a hero. (Getting teased on HB/Infuse/Patient spirit all the time)

My point is that there would be no problem with those skills if their purpose wasn't to power other overpowered skills. The AI is still easily beatable and still can be exploited. The AI has always been exceptional at interrupting. I remember watching one of my buddies monk against a Norgu that had 6 interrupts on his bar a couple years ago in GvG. He got absolutely dominated by Norgu for most of the match. They changed up the strategy and started to change how they were positioned with respect to Norgu. This resulted in an easy victory from that point.

Edwards · Feb 26, 2009, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Just 1 week ago, I got teased on Channeling, having to wait 15 seconds to get it pdrained, having to wait another 15 seconds to get it dshotted by the Ghostly. It's a miracle I kept us alive 8+ minutes against this teaseway, but that full minute without Channeling necked us.

Quote:

The AI is random, and it can work both in favor of you, or the heroway. This is definatly FAIR from a pure chance point of view (50/50% chance to win anyone?), but skillwise, it doesn't matter how good you are, as the Heroes decide the match. You might as well go in with 6 empty skills bars and then let the 4 heroes (2v2) fight it out...

Quote:

I concider me, and my friends, one of the best "guilds" in HA atm.

Um, ok.

Quote:

Last time I checked, I held HoH yesterday with:
Primal Rage
WE daggers (Me )
Dual Pew Pew Rangers
OoV spammer
Mo/P

That's about the closest thing to balance I've seen in HA.

lolwut?

Quote:

WHAT is balanced even, according to you? Not abusing buttonbash gimmicks?

Yeah, that's a good place to start.

Quote:

EVERYTHING is button-bash to a certain extend, my point is that BAD people can "rape" sheit with their PS-builds, whilst their heroes make sure everything gets shut down...

Quote:

I concider me, and my friends, one of the best "guilds" in HA atm.

Hmmm.

No offense, but your arguments are full of holes. Teaseway is not that hard to beat, especially with "one of the best guilds in HA". You're talking a lot of shit, but not backing it up very well.

Meanwhile, Haxor, who has a lot of good points and actually backs them up is flamed because he's telling the truth that people don't want to hear. It's really nice for bad or developing players to have an excuse for their losses.

"It was the heroes!"
"Gwen is better than a human could ever be!"
"Norgu interrupted my infuse 98234632 times that match!"

No, not true. You lose to teaseway because you're not playing well. They might get lucky and interrupt your infuse, but that just means that your prot failed. They interrupted both Guardian AND SoA? Kite.

Is teaseway more powerful than it should be? Yes. But that's only because of the skills, not the heroes. Take some responsibility for your team's results and you might just find that you can do things better.

Also, for all the people calling the Haxor bad, I played (what I assume was) him a couple times on double fame weekend, and he's at least above average as a prot monk, so find a new argument.

blackknight1337 · Feb 26, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Yeah...news flash, borat contradicts himself regularly....

If you don't believe that, go read every rspike thread still on these forums and you will see.

Apok Omen · Feb 26, 2009, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

Yeah...news flash, borat contradicts himself regularly....

If you don't believe that, go read every rspike thread still on these forums and you will see.

He also pats himself on the back alot, and claims that if he can't beat a moderately powerful build, then it's imbalanced.

After a while, you kinda just learn to skip his posts altogether and not bother to argue with him. Also, I remember him saying that he left this game...made my day.

The heroes are set up just to counter and piss off the average player with their reactions, and as a filler. You give a human the same bar, and they will gradually play it better than Gwen and Norgu put together. However, instead of running something unique, your average HAer likes to suggest taking a torch to the bush instead of beating around it. Many better than average players have been able to beat Teasways with ease, and without even running Teaseway.

IMHO, Anet should just revert LC and PnH altogether. They both promote bad play and worse results. (Hey, let's make party healing AND Hexes obsolete in one fellswoop!)

Reverend Dr · Feb 26, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

Yeah...news flash, borat contradicts himself regularly....

I agree.

Though I do strongly feel that heroes should not be able to interrupt 1/4 second casts regularly.

Not just that, but the energy gain created from tease/pdrain (which can't be duplicated by a human) to fuel already overpowered (yet underaddressed) rit skills is infuriating to the point that I AM GOING TO QUIT THIS GAME AND NEVER BUY ANOTHER PRODUCT FROM YOUR "FRANCHISE", AT LEAST DUKE NUKEM HAD A FRANCHISE BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO *NOT* PRODUCE A GAME (hello Anet, this is about the best commentary I can get. In fact, this is about the best commentary any player can get as you have regularly ignored the top players that very well understood the game in favor of pleasing the masses. Now that the top players have quit, you are currently ignoring the masses. Very soon no one will play PvP for anything other than title farming. No one will play PvE because there has been no content update for over a year. If you are going to keep this up, don't call it GW2, just create a new name and call it that; at that point you won't have any retention from the original GW aside from people specifically avoiding the game.)

Also my personal opinion is that 6v6 already failed once and shouldn't be tried again.

Krill · Feb 26, 2009, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

You lose to teaseway because you're not playing well.

There are good players that play teaseway. Let's spare ourselves from the lol tombz, everyone is bad, etc. etc. shit...whether they are just competent players or a really good at abusing fotm's, they exist. I lost to a teaseway Haxor was in last night, suppose I should either be uninstalling or we weren't playing well.

Draikin · Feb 26, 2009, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Though I do strongly feel that heroes should not be able to interrupt 1/4 second casts regularly.

They don't. Last time I checked a mesmer hero with 10 fact casting and no weapon mods only managed to interrupt 1/4 casts 4% of the time. I can only conclude that most of the time when people get their 1/4 cast interrupted it's because of the AoE interrupt or the fact that they're chain casting and the hero actually intended to interrupt their previous skill.

finalfan123 · Feb 26, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

6v6 rocks oldschool mo/a return FTW!!!!!