Curse

Darth The Xx · Apr 22, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41

So Ive been trying to get into HA for a few weeks now and run into the same paradox, can't get a rank cause no groups will take me, can't join a guild cause I got no rank.

Is there anything I can do? Most people I ask in game give me the noob hate treatment, so I came here to ask the opinion and advice of more civilised people

ps I have 2.3 mil total balth faction, does this count for anything?

Ele Mental · Apr 22, 2009, 12:00 PM // 12:00

where did you get the 2.3 mil faction?

BarPusher · Apr 22, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

ps I have 2.3 mil total balth faction, does this count for anything?

For making groups, yes, for joining, no.

Since you have that much faction you probably have a fair bit of experience with PVP. So I would suggest that you make a group. Invite players, give them their skill bar (ping it). Give them vent IP. Wait for all 8 people to be on ventrilo. Click the enter button.

Eduhard · Apr 22, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Don't waste your time with that random pugs, you know (tab-invite everyone in district).

Wait for mathway or iways, some of them don't ask for rank, and you can still win some fames after training. The problem is for some reason most people leave the party after one defeat....

The fastes way to get some fame in ha is join a guild, there are lots of "school" guilds still.

Cheers, good luck.

PS: Gladi/Commander rank also helps ^^

BarPusher · Apr 22, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

If you get your fame from IWAY or other lame builds, eventually when you do decide to balance you will find it harder. Some players will remember you and won't play with you simply because you IWAY'd.

Please take my advice and don't IWAY. It will work out better in the long run

.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Apr 22, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarPusher

If you get your fame from IWAY or other lame builds, eventually when you do decide to balance you will find it harder. Some players will remember you and won't play with you simply because you IWAY'd.

Please take my advice and don't IWAY. It will work out better in the long run

.

You give bad advice.

IWAY is fine to play at the start, there are a lot of unranked IWAYs, it wins (sometimes...) and it gives you a chance to learn the maps and some of the basic tactics in HA.

When I started in HA, I had no friends with PvP exp, I had no PvP exp, other than RA and I didn't know what to do. If you stick at it though eventually you'll see your fame start to build up and you'll notice you learn more and more.

Once you get at least some sort of displayable rank though I would try and stay away from lame builds.

As for what the other guy said about people remembering you for paying IWAY, this is very unlikely unless you continue to play it all the time. No one cares if unranked people play it, anyone with half a brain knows that unranked balanced teams are just a failtrain waiting to happen.

BarPusher · Apr 22, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I don't give bad advice.

If you get rank3, 6, 9, 12, whatever, from IWAY then when you make the transition to either a) balance or b) balanced gvg. You screw yourself over. IWAY doesn't even make that much fame, but for EFFORT PUT IN, it has and always will be over powered. The thing is, let's supposing he plays from Rank0 to Rank3 IWAYing, he then decided to play balanced. He's now utterly useless with the build he plays, and it might be spotted. So he might be kicked from the group, his group might just generally fail because of him, someone like him, or a group like him.

Great, now what's his reaction? Well I was getting fame before, this sucks. I think I'll go back to IWAY.

Where as, if you stick to something and grind out your bad play to BEGIN with, by the time you're rank3, rank6, or rank9, you should NOT be as terrible at the game as if you played IWAY. Then the friends become easier to get because players like you that were learning, might now bond with you or be relatively decent at the game.

Imo, and it is just an opinion the only time you should stray and play stuff like iway, rit spike, ranger spike or just generally mind numbingly dull, broken builds, is when you're trying to learn to combat them. Other than that, no it won't really help you in the long run nor short term either.

Quote:

some of the basic tactics in HA.

The tactics are self explanatory.

Ben-A-BoO · Apr 22, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Before you ask a question like that read the stickies:
How to Play Heroes' Ascent
It's almost all in there and might help you to understand why rank discrimination and whining about it has such a long tradition.

Other interesting reads for you might be:
Higher rank view on low rank discrimination.
Ultimate Strategy Guide to Heroes Ascent

P.s. Organized PvP needs dedication, either you have it or you don't. And the only place to prove is in game.

Darth The Xx · Apr 22, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eduhard

Don't waste your time with that random pugs, you know (tab-invite everyone in district).

Wait for mathway or iways, some of them don't ask for rank, and you can still win some fames after training. The problem is for some reason most people leave the party after one defeat....

The fastes way to get some fame in ha is join a guild, there are lots of "school" guilds still.

Cheers, good luck.

PS: Gladi/Commander rank also helps ^^

I was under the impression commander rank means nothing, I am r2 commander tho.

dr love · Apr 22, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

yea put glad rank on, mathway and unranked iways are run pretty often. they are not the best, but you'll get some fame. once you are r3 things will start looking up

Darth The Xx · Apr 22, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Alright thanks a lot you guys, one last question, which in your opinion has a higher success rate? IWAY or Mathway?

Edwards · Apr 22, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

The thing is, let's supposing he plays from Rank0 to Rank3 IWAYing, he then decided to play balanced. He's now utterly useless with the build he plays, and it might be spotted.

There's about 0 chance of finding enough people to play unranked balanced enough to get to r3/6/9/whatever. Play a variety of gimmicks, learn a variety of roles in those gimmicks, pay attention to the maps, take notes about how better teams beat you, etc, and by r3 you'll be reasonably well equipped to branch out a bit.

To be honest though, r3 is still really low. Anybody who's not a drooling idiot can perform most roles at an average r3 level. Honestly, if you can't figure out the very basics of how a fire ele works within about a minute, you should just quit now.

Also, don't expect anybody to take out into a group based on your champ title.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Apr 23, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarPusher

I don't give bad advice.

If you get rank3, 6, 9, 12, whatever, from IWAY then when you make the transition to either a) balance or b) balanced gvg. You screw yourself over. IWAY doesn't even make that much fame, but for EFFORT PUT IN, it has and always will be over powered. The thing is, let's supposing he plays from Rank0 to Rank3 IWAYing, he then decided to play balanced. He's now utterly useless with the build he plays, and it might be spotted. So he might be kicked from the group, his group might just generally fail because of him, someone like him, or a group like him.

Great, now what's his reaction? Well I was getting fame before, this sucks. I think I'll go back to IWAY.

Where as, if you stick to something and grind out your bad play to BEGIN with, by the time you're rank3, rank6, or rank9, you should NOT be as terrible at the game as if you played IWAY. Then the friends become easier to get because players like you that were learning, might now bond with you or be relatively decent at the game.

Imo, and it is just an opinion the only time you should stray and play stuff like iway, rit spike, ranger spike or just generally mind numbingly dull, broken builds, is when you're trying to learn to combat them. Other than that, no it won't really help you in the long run nor short term either.

The tactics are self explanatory.

Re-read what I said. I said only play IWAY until r3, not any higher and the tactics are not self explanatory at all. Iway is an excellent build to learn the lower maps and the tactics involved in them, if you think you can go straight in with a balanced team, never having played HA before and know the tactics and layout for the first 5 maps instantly then you're pretty delusional.

The fact is, unranked balanced teams will not win anything, apart from the first map maybe once, no one wants to lose this much and it's counter productive. Before you can learn how to play, you need to understand what is going on and IWAY is perfect for teaching you this.

If he actually wants to learn how to play, he will not go back to IWAY once he learns the basics and if he does, then he didn't want to learn in the first place, in which case it is irrelevant whether he plays IWAY at the start or not.

BarPusher · Apr 23, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Read what you said, I don't agree with it. Perhaps you are the one to have misread what I said. I also went straight into HA playing balanced. I had not played any form of PVP before that. It worked for me, I'm sure it can work for others. There is an observer mode, there are videos and lots of text to read. It is not hard to pickup the game.

I had plenty of opportunities early on to IWAY with high rank groups that were getting loads of fame, I didn't pick them. Lots of people have said IWAY in the beginning, I've never agreed with that attitude. Of course you will, because you're probably one of those players to have done such a thing.

Whether it is to r3, r6, r9, r12, or r15 is irrelevant. It's a weak mentality

.

Quote:

I said only play IWAY until r3

I grasped that, I also grasped you said r3, not r2, or r4, notice the rank where you get the emote? One of the the happy worthless emotes because of players that either a) inflicted your advice or b) practiced it.

Krill · Apr 23, 2009, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Some thoughts (in no particular order).

-Pugging balanced(ish) is fail at any rank unless you are playing with friends and just need some randoms to fill out the last few bitch roles.

-Most everyone farmed their first few ranks with an easy gimmick, some many more. There's no shame in it to get your Bambi.

-If you do play a gimmick don't completely turn your brain off. Try to understand what's going on and why you win / lose.

-Observe matches on Unholy Temples (relic runs), Forgotten Shrines (cap points) and Courtyard (king of the hill) when they are up, try to pick up some basic tactics for those maps.

There are some guilds that will take unranked players, you just got to be on the lookout. Don't expect much but that's how you get your foot in the door for experience and maybe start making a friends list.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Apr 23, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarPusher

.
I grasped that, I also grasped you said r3, not r2, or r4, notice the rank where you get the emote? One of the the happy worthless emotes because of players that either a) inflicted your advice or b) practiced it.

No I said r3 because this is the point where the title becomes displayable and therefore you can start to show you have at least played HA before. It is also the standard baseline when requesting ranks for the low level groups.

Also grats for being a noble non-IWAY'er. However the fact remains that playing IWAY until r3 is faster, more efficient and will allow you to start playing with others who aren't completely epic fail sooner, thus allowing the true learning experience to start faster. It wins more than unranked balanced, it gets more fame than unranked balanced and it is less frustrating than unranked balanced. In fact the only 2 advantages playing balanced at this level are A) It's not lame, but no one cares if you are unranked and play lame B) You learn a bit more sooner, but you will pick up this stuff quickly if you switch to balance after r3.

BarPusher · Apr 23, 2009, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Well you have a point(s). I can see the decent side of it, I can't bring myself to regret the decision I made and each to his own I guess. With that in mind, OP let me know which decision you will take

.

At a really low rank (so long as you don't overdo it) you perhaps won't screw your chances up. Not like say Starling (fyi, I like this guy) that lacked respect due to IWAYing.

It's also possible if you go straight off the bat into balanced, some guilds might notice you and think you are quite good keeping into consideration the circumstances, or they might admire your attitude of not doing lame builds and perhaps be helpful to you or do something that will later benefit you.

Some of GW is just being at the right place at the right time, but it's rather like getting a hot girlfriend that gives great blow jobs and makes you laugh. If you look for such a thing, you're going to be sourly disappointed. You just have to wait. Perhaps that's a bad example, finding car keys or something. They never turn up when you search. Stop searching, there they are... In guild wars, you will be frustrated. Some things just happen, and you remember them. Like the very first time I joined a top 20 guild or, first time I got a tiger, first time someone helped me, whatever.

I was talking to a guy last night that I was winning halls with, in the first match I played with him. I wrongly thought he was bad. I nearly said something but I didn't. I wasn't playing great myself either to be honest, so I just played.

Then we started winning a lot and when I got talking to him he said he had only played HA for about 3 months. Now I don't consider myself a moron, perhaps I over rate my intelligence but the point is that I understand what it's like in his situation and I respect him a lot. He was a very good player for his length of time playing and I did add to friend list. He didn't moan about high rankers, he didn't bitch at people.

He hasn't made threads on guru bitching he hasn't been able to play. I'll probably help him a bit, maybe I'm a rare type to do that, but what if he was IWAYing, who would he meet to help him?

Now I'm willing to bet that an IWAY'er that started 3 months ago won't have the fame what he does, in 3 more months

. He'll know the maps better too, because he won't just be winning UW.

There might be a guild looking for such a player or who knows what could happen.

---

Personally, if I was to start over again I would play balanced, look for a guild accepting un ranked players but tell them my situation and be honest. Offer them things that perhaps another player can't, for example that you really want to be good and in the long run you will help the guild. Then talk to the right people and get decent groups.

Remember, things in guildwars happen in phases. One day you're losing loads, non stop losing, then another you're winning a lot. Well, that's how it happened for me anyway. I used to get frustrated I wasn't winning halls enough. Now when I play I simply don't care about fame anymore (I've no need for more fame), so I just have fun and the irony is I probably win halls more (for the amount I play anyway).

I made the high rank view on rank discrimination thread, keep into account that. Sometimes players bitch they don't get into high rank groups.

Being understanding and nice does get you in high places. You don't have to be an e-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO though.

Krill · Apr 23, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarPusher

It's also possible if you go straight off the bat into balanced

Not pugging, not in a guild that will take someone under r3 unless you're asked to come play something simple like LC by a friend.

IWAY is the best way to get your first few ranks and learn the very basics of warrior in HA, at least how to move around and find your target when the field is very cluttered. Learning the IWAY prism healer would also make for an easy transition to OoS or a N/Rt support if those ever become meta again in balanced groups.