Curse

GourangaPizza · Mar 27, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Meh... I can't wait for RoJ to suffer Smiter's Boon fate, nerfed to oblivion.

MasterSasori · Mar 27, 2009, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

... You supplement a defensive monk with a smiter to DO DAMAGE while providing some off-monk support. No it doesn't completely obsolete eles, but post-eotn smiters are in and out of modern metagames all the time, just on the verge of imba. It's useful for tons more than capping, at least if you have an actual frontline to smite off, and now with Ray it happens to cap well too.

If I wanted support that could deal damage, why would I take a RoJ smiter over a Earth ele, a FF necro, a WoR rit, or just about anything else?

I could slap Holy Veil/Mending tuoch on a Ranger and still provide the damage + utility.

FoxBat · Mar 28, 2009, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

If I wanted support that could deal damage, why would I take a RoJ smiter over a Earth ele, a FF necro, a WoR rit, or just about anything else?

Earth is weak in small battles, Necros can't blow up shrines, WoR lacks hex removal and their entire bar does less damage. Also [strength of honor] is sick if you're running dual frontline. All those builds have their own strengths but they don't do the same things a smiter does.

Quote:

Oh please, a well placed WW does more damage

And heals for 0 and removes nothing. Not the same function and both skills are balanced appropriately.

I hear ReX does not bad in mATs with these "crappy" skills hobbling them.

Lux Aeterna · Mar 28, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

[strength of honor] along with [judge's insight] are great, once I had a Lyssa's aura mesmer maintain them on me and I was literally hitting for 60-90 on axe autoattacks.

My usual setup is warrior, ele, healer, and there's a free slot for a ranger/mesmer etcetera, the fourth slot could be taken by a good smite monk, but most of them are just RoJ newbs.....

Also reversal of damage/smite condition can really do some damage esp to a warrior in frenzy who isn't expecting it.

housecalls · Mar 30, 2009, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Someone asked so: i am a Kurzick.

I also rarely RoJ now in AB with most people realizing what the white light means now but will continue to smite/support as its a role that fits well in the team dynamic, plus armour ignoring damage ftw. The teams i usually run in know what and how i play even when i run one that is not mainline.

When i pug i try to stay within something that the lowest common denominator can cope with.

This thread was initially about RoJ but also about having fun and dotn get me wrong winning is fun, but being bored winning by playing the same builds is a waste of time imo.

Afterall GW is just a game

*listens to the screams from the guru fanatics*

MasterSasori · Mar 30, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Earth is weak in small battles, Necros can't blow up shrines, WoR lacks hex removal and their entire bar does less damage. Also [strength of honor] is sick if you're running dual frontline. All those builds have their own strengths but they don't do the same things a smiter does.

Earth's AoE provides KD, Snare, blind. Obsidian Flame does huge damage, Ebon Hawk + Stoning does great damage, weakness, and KD. Grasping Earth really messes up melee and kiters. Earth Eles are great in small battles as well.

N/E with ele skills can blow up shrines. And they can add their own support with FF and hexes.

WoR can go /Mo and can use Veil. People run out of RoJ. They can't take WoR off a target.

Jeydra · Apr 01, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Earth is weak in small battles ... just count the number of Earth Elementalists in RA compared to the other elements ... as for Necros can blow up shrines, yeah, so can Warriors with Meteor Shower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by housecalls

hahaha sorry my generalisation was probably missed by most, the above was used in line with the same generalisation as "monks = heal".

I have never flamed someone for having/trying a different build and yes i PVE but also dabbled in the most forms of PVP but that still doesnt change the way i play the GAME, i play it to have fun with like minded people. You are not always going to get the best drops, win the most GVGs or run the same cookie cutter builds.

My problem with smiters is much less that I think 'monks = heal', but that they don't tell me they're smiters before we actually enter battle. If they would just tell me, I'd be happy to let them stay and find another Monk to heal, but if they don't tell me ... now that's masquerading as something you're not. After all, if I say 'glf Monk' on party search, surely you don't think I'd be looking for a smiter, do you?

FoxBat · Apr 01, 2009, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Earth Eles are great in small battles as well.

Water pretty much outclasses them except in the packed cluster****s of HA and dumb shrine NPCs and/or dumber mob players. Spending 2s cast to unload UG on 1 warrior for 5 seconds isn't the most optimal use of an ele - it only really shines in the other mentioned situations. (Which is maybe enough - in which case why are we dissing an AoE DoT skill?)

Quote:

N/E with ele skills can blow up shrines.

I'd like to see the attribute spread there let alone the bar.

Quote:

People run out of RoJ.

If you aren't going to sync up your RoJ with kd-lock from whatever, then no, it's not going to do anything to a human. Of course if you aren't doing something like that with your AoE eles, I wonder what they are doing there either. (Seriously, very funny to kite those aoe fire nuke eles that try to solo you.) Never mind that the WoR-like spells smite condi/reversal of damage aren't elite anyway.

This is the kind of thing RoJ excels in, dual frontline + smite has been around TA for a very long time, and has been in and out of GvG and HA metas constantly. I don't know why this is so alien to people here. It's a lame build for splitting/soloing but it functions very well in a team. RoJ just gives this kind of team the AoE punch they were lacking before for fast caps, and occasionally it kills people too when your warrior calls a good spike.

tmakinen · Apr 01, 2009, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

This is the kind of thing RoJ excels in

Yes, that team build is (a somewhat reluctant) pass where a team of 4 RoJ'ers is fail. I would still take an axe and hammer frontline over axe and sword, especially in this context, and despite the nerf train I would also prefer a support rit over smite monk because when it comes to AoE Splinter + ARage > RoJ

MasterSasori · Apr 01, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Water pretty much outclasses them except in the packed cluster****s of HA and dumb shrine NPCs and/or dumber mob players. Spending 2s cast to unload UG on 1 warrior for 5 seconds isn't the most optimal use of an ele - it only really shines in the other mentioned situations. (Which is maybe enough - in which case why are we dissing an AoE DoT skill?)

Yes I agree water is more optimal and sees more play in PvP than earth. But the point I was trying to make is that I rather take Earth ele over the smite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

If you aren't going to sync up your RoJ with kd-lock from whatever, then no, it's not going to do anything to a human. Of course if you aren't doing something like that with your AoE eles, I wonder what they are doing there either. (Seriously, very funny to kite those aoe fire nuke eles that try to solo you.) Never mind that the WoR-like spells smite condi/reversal of damage aren't elite anyway.

If you have a good KD lock, why wouldn't just any decent AoE suffice? WoR gives bar compression. Something that RoD does not. Smite condition is just terrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

This is the kind of thing RoJ excels in, dual frontline + smite has been around TA for a very long time, and has been in and out of GvG and HA metas constantly. I don't know why this is so alien to people here. It's a lame build for splitting/soloing but it functions very well in a team. RoJ just gives this kind of team the AoE punch they were lacking before for fast caps, and occasionally it kills people too when your warrior calls a good spike.

The team is passable on PvX is alright. It's just 4X RoJ smiters that isn't. Dunno why the sword war is there. I'd much rather take a KD sin, MB/Melandru's Ranger, or Hammer War.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 02, 2009, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by housecalls

Someone asked so: i am a Kurzick.

I also rarely RoJ now in AB with most people realizing what the white light means now but will continue to smite/support as its a role that fits well in the team dynamic, plus armour ignoring damage ftw. The teams i usually run in know what and how i play even when i run one that is not mainline.

When i pug i try to stay within something that the lowest common denominator can cope with.

This thread was initially about RoJ but also about having fun and dotn get me wrong winning is fun, but being bored winning by playing the same builds is a waste of time imo.

Afterall GW is just a game

*listens to the screams from the guru fanatics*

So this is why kz-tards can't push it past Grenz.

Seriously people are going to leave because everyone hates it when it's Ancestral for a week.

Also: the warrior builds in that smiteway suck. The WE axe is alright but i'd change it slightly, but nobody seriously uses hundred blades and ZB monks go down in a second.

[frenzy][sprint] = Lol

GourangaPizza · Apr 02, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

If you have a good KD lock, why wouldn't just any decent AoE suffice? WoR gives bar compression. Something that RoD does not. Smite condition is just terrible.

Because RoJ's damage is in small packets, burning and go through your prots?

Don't flame me but this what I've seen and experienced.

housecalls · Apr 02, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

"So this is why kz-tards can't push it past Grenz.

Seriously people are going to leave because everyone hates it when it's Ancestral for a week."

hahaahaha see lowest common denominator

All maps have their ups and downs, learn to adapt to the map.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 03, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Yah actually my team is always the one that grabs the base in the first 60 seconds. I love maps where the other team is advantaged, it makes you develop tactics and especially be uber fast.

Also it was on ancestral today, then it went to grenz, now it's ancestral again....

And i made 2 smiters switch to healing.

Ran into some people wanting to do smiteway, it seemed to work well but we had me (PR sword) and a palm sin.

Oh, also, when you lock us into the base I'm always the one who convinces allies to let us out one of the other gates.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 03, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Question: does strength of honor affect the extra damage from hundred blades? The smiteway people I met wanted me to use hundred blades but were okay with what i had.

MasterSasori · Apr 03, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

Because RoJ's damage is in small packets, burning and go through your prots?

Don't flame me but this what I've seen and experienced.

I was referring to Fire AoE, but many AoE is in small packets anyway. The burning is real nice, but considering that RoJ is an elite - is it worth it? That's the real question.

Anyone who gets KD locked + hit by all 5 RoJ was not preprot correctly. That's something the monk needs to fix.

D A R K S O I F O N · Apr 03, 2009, 09:41 PM // 21:41

ive noticed with a roj bomber in jq there almost effective in doing there job. Allthough if u do need a knockdown warrior with u to make it a 100% killing freezy.

D A R K S O I F O N · Apr 03, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Personally i prefer my necro's build and rit build for ab/jq. My necro/mes build that the skill bar to not only cause massive amounts of degin but loss of energy to the enermy's and npc's. Also wat i have noticed is that especially in jq people dnt heal the juggernauts when there losing health. So i use a simple et effective rit/par build that can heal either the hole shrine from dying, or at least the juggernaut from dying. Both builds are so kool and if people out there have seen my 2 charecters they would know what im talking about. Corrupted Queen or D A R K B A N K A I.

FoxBat · Apr 06, 2009, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Only SoA/Shielding prots RoJ, and that's not completely standard on monk bars. Generally a good idea in AB though with all the caster damage flying around. (And people that all gang up on whichever character you send in front to tank. 4v8s can be so fun!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

If you have a good KD lock, why wouldn't just any decent AoE suffice?

Any AoE is much better with KD lock, it's just arguing that "RoJ = bad because people walk out of it" is silly when you are defending fire and earth eles. Smiter elites, just like rit and paragon elites, are weak compared to other classes so a question like "do you want to spend your elite on AoE?" doesn't make sense, the strength of smiters in other situations needs to be evaluated seperately. And aoe elites are exactly what alot of fire/earth end up taking anyway.

Quote:

WoR gives bar compression. Something that RoD does not.

Yes and WoR is elite, should this surprise? It's not like the compression hardly matters when rits are scraping to fill the 7th slot.

[Weapon of Remedy][Ancestor's Rage][Splinter Weapon][Soothing Memories][Weapon of Warding][Blind Was Mingson][No Skill][Dash]

7th slot being something random and not that essential. Yes splinter weapon does about the same damage to a 3-person shrine as RoJ, but it is far less useful against 2-person or human opponents regardless of how KD'd they are - so RoJ offers a different kind of compression. You can throw spirit rift on that bar but as lightning damage with a longer dleay, it doesn't do the job nearly as well.

I'm not at all saying rits are terrible, but you can't just theory-craft out of it. They both fill a similar frontline-buff and off-monk defense role with different emphasis, both are widely used, so you'd either need a ridiculously complex mathematical treatise or some experience running both builds. The main practical limitation is that SoH is optimally suited for 2 frontliners, so if you want to run a ranger or something then rit is more likely the way to go.

Quote:

Smite condition is just terrible.

It doesn't reliably dig out condition stacks with that long recharge, it's mainly there for aoe damage. Think of it as an ancestor's rage that's armor ignoring, with a bigger radius, and isn't spread out over 3 seconds. Or should I just try the "ensign said it's good, therefore it is" angle?

moriz · Apr 06, 2009, 02:06 AM // 02:06

ensign says its good, as long as it's not relied upon as the only condition remover available.