Curse

Chocobo1 · May 25, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Firstly, Inb4 LOLOLOL IWAY

I like to run Iway, it's simple for other players and easy to find people ready to go. But when I run Iway, I run all the warriors using Bulls Strike because I find a KD to be far more powerful than -3 energy. I've been getting a few complaints about the lack of using Fear Me so I'd like to settle it once and for all. Is running 2 Bulls and 2 Fear Me warriors more effective than running 4 Bulls Wars? Fear Me imo is utter crap, even if somehow you could keep up QZ for the entire duration I'd rather have people able to KD targets than put some low energy pressure on their team.

So yeah, help me settle this?

TheHaxor · May 25, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

running a different build is more effective than both

Chocobo1 · May 25, 2009, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

running a different build is more effective than both

Agreed, but IWAY is quick and easy for me to run. So back to my orginal post.

ac1inferno · May 25, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Use both? You have 4 Warriors in an IWAY team build.

2x [build prof=Warrior/Ranger str=10+1 Axe=12+1+1 tactics=8][Bull's Strike][Dismember][Agonizing Chop][Fear Me][Battle Rage]["I Will Avenge You!"][Charm Animal][Resurrection Signet][/build]

2x [build prof=Warrior/Ranger str=12+1 Axe=12+1+1][Dismember][Agonizing Chop][Disrupting Chop][Bull's Strike][Battle Rage]["I Will Avenge You!"][Charm Animal][Resurrection Signet][/build]

TheHaxor · May 25, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Okay, this can be settled with a little bit of reasoning. You are an IWAY warrior, so things are going to kite you. Why? Because if they don't they take way too much damage and their monks scream at them. "Fear Me" is most effective when you aren't being kited and the other team balls up on each other. This simply doesn't happen. However, Bull's Strike prevents things from kiting you. This is good. Things not kiting you take more damage.

As a prot monk, the "Fear Me" from the current IWAY was never an issue. As long as I was positioning myself right, I wasn't going to eat enough "Fear Me" to hurt my energy pool. However, I would start running into trouble when people weren't kiting the warriors (thus taking too much damage) or when a certain sequence of skills on my bar were dchopped. A bull's strike has the ability to disrupt my skill usage for 3 seconds. This can open a window for you to put enough pressure on my team and force me to spend too much energy. If this happens often enough, it may actually get to me.

At the end of the day, screw IWAY and run Dongway. It's much more effective.

Icy The Mage · May 25, 2009, 05:01 AM // 05:01

The thing is, most IWAY players will not know how to land a [bull's strike] (and won't) for the life of them; so [fear me!] just ends up being more effective (even if it does lower your adrenaline gain a little bit) for the general pugging population, a.k.a. the people you'll be IWAYing with

Nadia Roark · May 25, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

Okay, this can be settled with a little bit of reasoning. You are an IWAY warrior, so things are going to kite you. Why? Because if they don't they take way too much damage and their monks scream at them. "Fear Me" is most effective when you aren't being kited and the other team balls up on each other. This simply doesn't happen. However, Bull's Strike prevents things from kiting you. This is good. Things not kiting you take more damage.

As a prot monk, the "Fear Me" from the current IWAY was never an issue. As long as I was positioning myself right, I wasn't going to eat enough "Fear Me" to hurt my energy pool. However, I would start running into trouble when people weren't kiting the warriors (thus taking too much damage) or when a certain sequence of skills on my bar were dchopped. A bull's strike has the ability to disrupt my skill usage for 3 seconds. This can open a window for you to put enough pressure on my team and force me to spend too much energy. If this happens often enough, it may actually get to me.

At the end of the day, screw IWAY and run Dongway. It's much more effective.

QFT. But Fifty is right about the general stupidity of warriors. If you're running a lower ranked group, you might actually get more pressure out of fear me, but bulls is the better skill. Current iway isn't that strong, so you've got to squeeze every bit of pressure you can out of it and fear me just doesn't cut it in 99% of situations.

deluxe · May 25, 2009, 05:42 AM // 05:42

There is a reason the unranked pugs run fearme, and the r10+ iways run bulls.

Lux Aeterna · May 25, 2009, 06:37 AM // 06:37

How do you kite a +33% IMS warrior anyway ?

Chocobo1 · May 25, 2009, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Yeah, that was the argument my guildie made. That people are too stupid to use Bulls. I'm R4 and so I only get into those groups unless I'm with my higher ranked mates and It seems stupid to believe that people wouldn't be able to run bulls. Sigh painful to even think about it, the pressure from Fear Me is a joke in my opinion, I would never see it causing a problem in it's current state but I guess if no one can land a bulls it's better than nothing.

kedde · May 25, 2009, 08:10 AM // 08:10

You run away from him, thus reducing his damage output by more than 50%.
You also stop every 12 seconds to make him waste his bull's.

Morgoth the dark · May 25, 2009, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

There is a reason the unranked pugs run fearme, and the r10+ iways run bulls.

Like the rank in iway matters lolol

Sun Fired Blank · May 25, 2009, 09:48 AM // 09:48

I have a solution: Backbreaker x 3 and Infuriating Heat

TheHaxor · May 25, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

QFT. But Fifty is right about the general stupidity of warriors. If you're running a lower ranked group, you might actually get more pressure out of fear me, but bulls is the better skill. Current iway isn't that strong, so you've got to squeeze every bit of pressure you can out of it and fear me just doesn't cut it in 99% of situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyFiftyFive

The thing is, most IWAY players will not know how to land a [bull's strike] (and won't) for the life of them; so [fear me!] just ends up being more effective (even if it does lower your adrenaline gain a little bit) for the general pugging population, a.k.a. the people you'll be IWAYing with

Most of the people you would play against in tombs now-a-days are equally as bad as the people playing IWAY. Thus, they will probably eat the bull's strike regardless of how bad the user is with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

How do you kite a +33% IMS warrior anyway ?

I hope you're joking.

Aera · May 25, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14

If some warrior plays IWAY means he's bad, thus unable to hit Bull's. So go for Fear Me.

axe · May 25, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

For Lower ranked teams I think it is even more important to take Bulls strike.

Simply they tend to auto-lose on relic runs, so why not bring something that CAN be used on that map that they struggle on. Fear Me does nothing on relic runs.

If your low-ranked IWAY can make it past Relic runs, you actually have a shot at good fame because Cap points you can win with a good split, and Golden Gates is 1V1. So that will add 3 additional maps into your fame farm, if you dont skip.

Not saying Bulls will win you the relic run, but it will get you closer to a win there than Fear Me. Bulls will help you in any split situation where Fear Me does nothing.

Nadia Roark · May 25, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

I have a solution: Backbreaker x 3 and Infuriating Heat

I've run the Infuriating Heat mod and I actually think it's more powerful than the meta iway, but I'd go with earthshaker over bb. Usually when I run IH I prefer to go 2 axe 2 hammer, and since IH + Battle Rage (allegedly) don't stack the axe warrs usually run evi or something. I tried a "Coward!" variant with my guild yesterday, and it was reasonably effective too (2 hits for a ranged KD? :9 ).

Sun Fired Blank · May 25, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Meta IWAY is shit. Just about anything is more powerful than meta IWAY.

One Earth Shaker through is great for linebacking plus AoE KD for some of the maps, and it also gives you a decent place for Song of Concentration.

Nadia Roark · May 25, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Meta IWAY is shit. Just about anything is more powerful than meta IWAY.

Pretty much. I don't know why people keep running it; I'm pretty sure its the weakest iway I've ever seen. I never had to play against stacking orders, but I've been told that was the strongest it ever was. I remember OoA iway being reasonably strong, but I never played it. As a prot I was tempted to /dance for half the matches.

Edwards · May 26, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

TBH, you can usually solo monk against IWAY for at least a couple minutes before anything dies. The only reason that build wins is dchop spam and spirits staying up too long against bad teams.