Curse

JR · Mar 10, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

We may not have prophecies level gameplay, but at least we still have prophecies level shit talk!

FYI, I never implied I was amazing at the game, simply that [rawr] is massively overrated and over recognized in the context of the all time top guilds... which I think is perfectly reasonable and understandable. You only became consistent after absorbing the [tag] members (funnily enough the majority of the people here) by which point, competitively, the game was already on the slab.

My original point about a prophecies tournament being an attractive proposition still stands.

(And of course EviL would get shit stomped by degenerate plays and gimmicks if they came back now, because that is how far down the wrong path the game has gone. You would have to be incredibly naive to think otherwise.)

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 11, 2009, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Polly made a complete idiot of himself, anyone defending him is just stupid.

And Eurospike meta was one of the most retarded onces ever, and a Proph tourney will never happen for the exact reason Asp stated, but a tourney for which they would balance the game for would be real good for GW2, there are probably less that 20 skills that really need slight to major tweaks imo. But then again I don't reallt have the insight in these matters like other people do.

pah01 · Mar 11, 2009, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Hey,

Some people seem to labour under some illusions here.

Prophecies was messed up at release. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot. However when they fixes the exhaustion bug with negative energy weapons and made gale 10 energy that was the beginning of the best era of guildwars. That era ended once people made the bar with AoD on it to gank bases.

The seasons leading up to the gwfc were a hell of a lot of fun. However it was the beginning of the end. They introduced shadow stepping into a game which had developed into a tactical game revolving around positioning and moving even in flagstand engagements.

There are a lot of players who simply agree with me that shadow stepping is completely stupid in competitive guildwars. This is one of those areas in which Anet simply valued fancy ideas to impress people with no understanding of the high level game.

Then came nightfall. This was a failure on every point. We are still living with the failures of nightfall. Except arenenet seem to think that Primal Rage was a good idea. This is simply proof of a kind of incompetence I cant even think of a good comparison for. So the game is worse.

Joe

scruffy · Mar 11, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

whats wrong with shadow steps?

sure, teleporting across the map with recall chains was retarded, but aside from that I don't see how they are a problem, they add an interesting aspect to the game.

Asplode · Mar 11, 2009, 02:29 AM // 02:29

A lot of hot air in this thread, and it's ironic that no one from GWWC or GWFC is replying.

But the statements made in their stead are rather typical and hilarious.

In other news, JR and Polly both need to shake hands and make up ^_^

Phelann · Mar 11, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

A lot of hot air in this thread, and it's ironic that no one from GWWC or GWFC is replying.

That would be ironic if anyone from gwwc/gwfc still posted here? Or am I missing something obvious.

Kaon · Mar 11, 2009, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

A lot of hot air in this thread, and it's ironic that no one from GWWC or GWFC is replying.

Koreans never post on forums.

Oh and pah01, I disagree with you. Gale era was most fun, then after gale nerf the game was still awesome deep untill factions release.

JR · Mar 11, 2009, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

A lot of hot air in this thread, and it's ironic that no one from GWWC or GWFC is replying.

I can't think of a single person that played in a qualifying GWWC guild (or even GWFC guild) that still plays now. See comments about how all the good players left the game already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

whats wrong with shadow steps?

sure, teleporting across the map with recall chains was retarded, but aside from that I don't see how they are a problem, they add an interesting aspect to the game.

Defensive shadow stepping (monks) destroyed the importance of good positioning.

Offensive shadow stepping (warriors) destroyed the importance of good target switching, encouraged spiking, and made pre-protting a lot more difficult.

Split shadow stepping (any) made splitting too powerful. Think how broken Shadow of Haste was, then Aura of Displacement, then Recall... It was only after pretty much nerfing shadow stepping out of play that these problems went away.

Asplode · Mar 11, 2009, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

I can't think of a single person that played in a qualifying GWWC guild (or even GWFC guild) that still plays now. See comments about how all the good players left the game already.

Mkay.

12chars

Sun Fired Blank · Mar 11, 2009, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Treacherous Empire didn't qualify?

Morgan Crowe · Mar 11, 2009, 10:21 AM // 10:21

I still think the game had its peak level at the winter tournament '07. So many top guilds participating on a really high level. Maybe the game was broken with the nightfall release, but there were a lot of different builds (ok, mesmerspike wasn't the greatest build, but still you saw a varity of builds).

I personally tend to say "old times were better", mainly in real life, but if you have a second look you might realize that you were simply wrong. Maybe there were some highlights in proph and new tactics were found out. Today everyone knows how to gank, split or save boosts and how to counter this. Of course it's still possible to split someone out, but not as easy as earlier.

I mean, I'm so tired of reading "this game is dead", etc. Because there are still like 50 guilds playing the mat and even 200-300 Guilds are still playing ladder. Back in proph times you could get top50 with random bars. Today it's more organized and people at rank500 know how to play at least and don't get farmed in 30 seconds.

scruffy · Mar 11, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31

you are wrong JR, 1 deaths charge every 45 seconds never carried a warrior who had bad positioning, same with a monk using return

that idea is laughable tbh, teleports are only good in the hands of good players. if a bad player is using the teleport to tele-spike somebody once every 45 seconds it doesnt matter because he doesnt do anything in the down time anyways.

sure, in the hands of a good player he will have an opportunity to make a good spike every 45 seconds, but he did waste a skill slot for it after all.

I think teleports are fun to watch and fun to use, people take risks on splits when they have teleports not because they are bad but because thats what they brought the skill for, they sacrificed their efficiency for the ability to move around easy.

I think assassins were a good addition to the game, its unfortunate the way they turned out.

Sierraa · Mar 11, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

The comparison is stupid (gear showed up for one tournament kicked ass then died) but not worth getting into. Really though, polly did just sound downright silly in his post.

lol GeAr kicking ass. They were lucky and faced stupid Euros who didn't realize that they only play one build. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan Crowe

Back in proph times you could get top50 with random bars. Today it's more organized and people at rank500 know how to play at least and don't get farmed in 30 seconds.

lol. Sorry, but no. When I go guest for rank 500 guilds they most generally piss me off because people aren't doing what they should be. I've had rank 500 guilds who are super serious about gvg and monks let the entire opposing team collapse through locks on frozen isle and stand in the base waiting to be micro'd.

Slightly on topic though, I played GvG back in the days of proph, too bad no one would recognize my guild name or tag. :]

Morgan Crowe · Mar 11, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

lol. Sorry, but no. When I go guest for rank 500 guilds they most generally piss me off because people aren't doing what they should be. I've had rank 500 guilds who are super serious about gvg and monks let the entire opposing team collapse through locks on frozen isle and stand in the base waiting to be micro'd.

I didn't say they are superheroes, they are top500 for somewhat reason. But compared to prophtimes top500 teams are way better than they were. I'm not guesting a lot, but a friends guild with some pve players are trying to get started in gvg and they're not that bad. They have to learn some things and lose due to stupid mistakes sometimes, but I really would not call them bad.

I remember my first gvg in a pve guild when we entered with henchies and faced an opponent who was running henchies too. Today that wouldn't happen unless you face shat and they will kick your ass with THE Mage Henchman.

sirius1989 · Mar 11, 2009, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

I can't think of a single person that played in a qualifying GWWC guild (or even GWFC guild) that still plays now. See comments about how all the good players left the game already.

i dunno, as i recall, it could be, i know i'm really risky here, but uhhm rawr got players from te? :O and they erm kinda played there, oh shit! sry i ruined your point.

and fun stuff by pressing at one link in this topic you would actually see that, but i guess your cool enough to know everything!

oh and a sidenote yes rawr fails comepletly, cause they use a build there win, shame on rawr!!!

Asplode · Mar 11, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirius1989

i dunno, as i recall, it could be, i know i'm really risky here, but uhhm rawr got players from te?

Just one; his name is Awowa.

Three Pounds was Te too, but didn't compete at Leipzig afaik, feel free to correct me on this one.

JR · Mar 11, 2009, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirius1989

i dunno, as i recall, it could be, i know i'm really risky here, but uhhm rawr got players from te? :O and they erm kinda played there, oh shit! sry i ruined your point.

and fun stuff by pressing at one link in this topic you would actually see that, but i guess your cool enough to know everything!

Ok, my bad, Awowa still plays. That's one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

you are wrong JR, 1 deaths charge every 45 seconds never carried a warrior who had bad positioning

Pretty sure number of guilds who had two Warriors and only spiked every time one of them had Death's Charge up would say otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

same with a monk using return

That's just ridiculous. Pre-return, if you were around to remember, positioning was a huge factor. A monk that was a little bit further up than he should have been would be punished for it by good players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

that idea is laughable tbh, teleports are only good in the hands of good players.

Now that is a laughable idea. Teleports are, and have always been easymode.

sirius1989 · Mar 11, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Ok, my bad, Awowa still plays. That's one.

and your point no one played at all, Acid still guest once in a while as i have seen.

and there is probaly a lot more, but since i wasn't around gw at that time, i don't know them all.

but pretty much agree with you in the rest of your post though.

JR · Mar 11, 2009, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirius1989

and your point no one played at all

Actually, my point was that there are no good guilds around to challenge [rawr] for dominance. The fact that the only GWWC player left in the game is a member of [rawr] is absolutely no counter to my statement.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Mar 11, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I think in a lot of aspects the game has continuously improved (e.g. removal of VoD, nerfs to teleports and pure casterspike gimmicks, improvements to gameplay in general (skill activation bars, morale timers) etc.).

However balance has been a slippery slope with the new skills that got added which each chapter, when the game got into a decent state skill balance wise a new chapter came out and the entire process started over.

Now when no more chapters get released and the game was moving towards a somewhat balanced state Izzy goes and buffs a bunch of elites which continue to break the game and then spends the next few months patching up the damage the elite buff did.

I think the game right now would be pretty well balanced if a few more of the ridiculous elites got nerfed (Lingering Curse, PnH, Warrior's Endurance) as well as some none elites (Signet of Rage, Castigation Signet, Foul Feast) and party healing became prone to shutdown again, the last update was definitely a step in the right direction.

The game was definitely a lot more fun overall in the Gale/Blackout era and the 'KGYU pressure' era, lot of movement, splits, flag pushing etc. Gale and Blackout were obviously overpowered, but they weren't brainless skills like Primal Rage and Lingering Curse, you actually needed to coordinate them well to use them to full potential.

I think the main reason a lot of people see the pre-factions era as the golden age of GW as matches were actually interesting to observe, basically every match on observer atm is the same.