Curse

bungusmaximus · Jun 27, 2009, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I don't see where you get your generalization that people who would normally TA/GvG/HA don't care about AB. If they didn't care why would they be in AB in the first place? You would think that with the mentality that people bring into TA/GvG/HA that they would play to win, even in AB. (And yeah, even if they were screwing around it would be light years better than any normal AB player).

It doesn't happen all the time, I played with many good gvg-ers, and it was fun to play with them. But there's so many i-am-bored-with-gw-so-I-don't-know-what-to-do types out there that know ecerything about the game but aren't really hungry anymore.

Bobby2 · Jun 27, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

although once some ranger spent 15 minutes trying to tell me to use coward axe, then when I finally rerolled off palm strike I did and liked it

Yay Coward!

bungusmaximus · Jun 28, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Yay Coward!

funny skill that is, especially because you can KD players that you aren't actually fighting, thus they never see in coming. It used to be underrated but now a lot of people actually use it.

Lux Aeterna · Jun 29, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

you can also walk slightly then use it to KD someone who's attacking you.

I'd use it more but hammer hammer hammer hammer hammer hammer

you know I forgot how to get kills with axe?

Though I ran into um Eyes from StS and dchopped his patient.

iVendetta · Jun 29, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

It takes less than a fraction of a second to hold CTRL and just click the goddamn skillbar.

Laraja · Jun 30, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by santaclaus66

This is pure nonsense.

I for one refuse to show my build if someone asks without reason.
To me, it's a show they don't trust me in doing my job, as ranger, warrior, ele, monk, para, whatever else I have.

If I was asked to show my build so we can coordinate skills, or to balance the team, ping, it's there. But just asking for it like that makes me feel I get robbed, and I don't like that.
(Not that I'm an expert guy in making builds, just the feeling I don't like)

So what if they don't have a reason. So what. Why do you care? Why do you care if some random PuG leader thinks... or not... that he can't trust you to do your job. So what? Ping and be done with it. It's a big deal over nothing.

Ask me to ping, and I'll ping. Ask me to change something up, and I'll change. It's no freakin' big deal and it amazes me that people get all uptight over it. So, with that in mind, when someone refuses to ping how can you not but think their build sucks?

Nian · Jul 06, 2009, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Pinging is a waste of everyone's time. Just hit the start button and get on with it. It's the only way to see wether your group sucks or not regardless of builds.

I do ping if asked CLEARLY. I'm usually in AB with the build I currently want to play so if somebody starts demanding changes I leave. It just feels like a waste of my time because I want to play several matches in quick succession and waiting for some slowpoke partyleader to organize everyone is a pain in the derriere not to mention people tend to leave afterwards even if the party was good. AB is so fast anyways, why bother organizing? If it fails it fails.

I like to solo cap anyways. Best if somebody is there backing me up but usually they just get stuck mobbing which is when I start capping.

erk · Jul 06, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

It tends to be the Monk lead teams that insist on pointless build scrutinizing, for that reason I tend to avoid them. I figure if your team needs a Monk they are not playing AB properly and should go back to TA.

YunSooJin · Jul 07, 2009, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

It tends to be the Monk lead teams that insist on pointless build scrutinizing, for that reason I tend to avoid them. I figure if your team needs a Monk they are not playing AB properly and should go back to TA.

lol..........

Lux Aeterna · Jul 07, 2009, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

It tends to be the Monk lead teams that insist on pointless build scrutinizing, for that reason I tend to avoid them. I figure if your team needs a Monk they are not playing AB properly and should go back to TA.

Let me guess, you run either Life Sheath or Melandru's Resilience and wonder why your team dies.

erk · Jul 07, 2009, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Let me guess, you run either Life Sheath or Melandru's Resilience and wonder why your team dies.

You guess wrong. I don't Monk in AB unless it's smite. Monking is pointless in a game where the primary objective is avoiding fights and capping shrines. A mild self heal to offset the damage from the NPC's is all you need. Solo cap builds net me the most faction per hour.

the_jos · Jul 07, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Monking is pointless in a game where the primary objective is avoiding fights and capping shrines.

No, it's a good example of a domination kind of game.

Domination is what AB is about.
This is not only done by capping but also by making sure the other parties cannot cap (vital) shrines.
And that means smashing their heads to little pieces the moment they move too close to those shrines.
It's not only about scoring points, it's as much about denying others to score points.

Each dead player is out of the game for 10, maybe 20 seconds?
Wrong. They end up at a place that's already owned and need to move back to a place that isn't owned. And the team needs to regroup. Each dead player is easily out of the game for 45-60 seconds.

Sure, you can avoid opponents. That would decrease your efficiency since you need to take detours. And it leaves the way open for that other team to recap the shrine you just got.

Imagine that you kill the opposing team and this takes 60 seconds. This means you and they won't cap for those 60 seconds so the balance will remain.
At the same time the opposing team is put on a time-out waiting for res and regroup. And they have to move to the next shrine. In this time you could be at the next shrine capping. Or beating another team back into timeout.

Once you've done this a couple of times people will avoid your team.
This gives a huge advantage since you can somewhat control their movement.
Where you are and move to they won't be.
And by that you can keep them away from the places they should be.

And on top of this many random teams fall apart when being beaten and join other players. This decreases efficiency even more.

glacialphoenix · Jul 07, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

You guess wrong. I don't Monk in AB unless it's smite. Monking is pointless in a game where the primary objective is avoiding fights and capping shrines. A mild self heal to offset the damage from the NPC's is all you need.

It's not just capping shrines, it's holding shrines. Capping alone won't get you the points, holding them for a certain length of time will. Getting killed gives the other side 3 points and denies your side points that you might have obtained during the 20s you were dead + however long it takes you to get to the next cap shrine and cap.

If your monk is semi-decent, you should be able to hold out 4v4 if it comes to a shrine skirmish; you'd probably be able to stall for longer if you needed to do so; you might even come out tops despite being outnumbered - taking more people out of the battle or buying your side time to recap. What's the point of capping a shrine if the enemy can recap it effortlessly?

Reverend Dr · Jul 07, 2009, 09:41 PM // 21:41

This is why I really dislike AB. Almost all of the population seems to think it is just about capping, that capping is the only dynamic in the entire game.

The guy that says "don't mob" is the guy whose group is rubbish so he "tags along" with our group accomplishing nothing, but furthering his own ego of "I was playing what were you doing?"

The people that say "don't attack the mob" haven't bothered to realize that there is only 1 monk in that group and it will crumble easily if pushed hard.

We'll have 6 shrines capped and every group runs to the one shrine near our base to cap it rather than skirmishing and trying to prevent the other team from retaking a shrine.

Tons of E/P's that run AoE fire. It'll kill dumbass NPC's but has absolutely no value in skirmishes on such open maps; also what build won't roll face over dumbass NPC's? But because they can solo kill a shrine and brought a party speed boost they are the elites of AB.

The few monks that do exist don't seem to have any awareness. I'll dance in front of one and degen to death while the rest of their team isn't even engaged. As a monk if I find another, I know I can protect him and that he isn't going to bother to do anything for me.

Even if the opposing team has a group of 4 very good players, stall them. You are taking them out of the game, and if the rest of your team catches up you can collapse and kill them (note: while a very sound strategy, it will fail often due to reliance upon the rest of your team)

Yet all I ever really see are idiots that say "cap, don't fight, don't mob" and yet cannot figure out that maybe its their strategy that is causing them to lose so many games.

Darth The Xx · Jul 08, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

The people that say "don't attack the mob" haven't bothered to realize that there is only 1 monk in that group and it will crumble easily if pushed hard.

This is oh so true. Awareness seems to be the major weak point of AB, most players don't even tab cycle through the opposing team to see what they're dealing with but rather just c-space it.

This was especially evident in one of my groups last night, we were running kappaspike, 3 eles and 1 monk, we saw a mob of about 7-8 people, after a quick cycle I saw there was no monk so we decided to go for it. Another group that was watching us started screaming in chat "OMFG the point is to AVOID mobs" not realising that we just got our team 24 points, capped a shrine and put 8 players out of the game.

Good times ... good times.

Burst Cancel · Jul 08, 2009, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

It tends to be the Monk lead teams that insist on pointless build scrutinizing, for that reason I tend to avoid them. I figure if your team needs a Monk they are not playing AB properly and should go back to TA.

Damn, Gurus always brings the laughs. Too pro.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jul 08, 2009, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Well at least there are some semi-sane people in the thread :P.

Water ele's are godly in AB, snare the monk and you can spike him down while the rest of the team is running off to cap the next shrine...

Nian · Jul 08, 2009, 08:30 AM // 08:30

I can see where the monk dislike may come from. I usually dislike PUG teams with monks simply because you don't often get good ones. It's a rare occasion to get a random pug with a good monk but when you do it's great. I don't remember much about monking in AB but I would say it requires a bit more concentration than simply nuking*ele here*. Either way good players are good no matter what class.

I still like GW's AB. It's not bad at all. It's great fun and I love the fast pace. Playing too much in one go will make me more cranky abotu slowpokes and I don't like to socialize so too much chatting is just blah... more game less talk. I like to see people's playstyle by their actions not what they claim they will do...

Lux Aeterna · Jul 08, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

This was especially evident in one of my groups last night, we were running kappaspike, 3 eles and 1 monk, we saw a mob of about 7-8 people, after a quick cycle I saw there was no monk so we decided to go for it. Another group that was watching us started screaming in chat "OMFG the point is to AVOID mobs" not realising that we just got our team 24 points, capped a shrine and put 8 players out of the game.

Wow winning 4v8 is quite an accomplishment, I was going to just flame the awful smiting monk (smiting monks invariably fail, then cause drama) but this distracted me and I'll say congratulations and I'm glad you're a Luxon. I think I've pulled off 4v6 before, but 4v8 is impressive.

To me ab is about making successful judgement calls, deciding strats, being aware of the map, and balancing when to speed cap vs. crush opposing groups. I like risky strategies especially, and helping other groups when they fight.

the_jos · Jul 08, 2009, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nian

I can see where the monk dislike may come from. I usually dislike PUG teams with monks simply because you don't often get good ones. It's a rare occasion to get a random pug with a good monk but when you do it's great. I don't remember much about monking in AB but I would say it requires a bit more concentration than simply nuking*ele here*.

Well, I usually monk when playing AB but I hardly do that for PUG groups.
Many spread all over the map and lack the skill to crush (monkless) opposing teams fast to keep pressure off me.
Sure I can stay alive for a while but my energy pool is limited and stances/enchantments do end. And since most opponents jumped on me and not the other team members I'd like those team members to help me a little....

Monking for a good PUG team is really enjoyable and doesn't require much additional effort compared to other roles.
But monking for bad PUG teams is annoying at least.

Having said this, I've taken starting monks (so huge lack of skills and experience) a couple of times in balanced PUG teams and if the team is playing well this is good enough against many opposing teams.
The difference between a regular monk and a good one will only be seen under pressure. Bad monks are easily to spot and kicked fast the next round