Curse

Osiris_sam · Jul 28, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

anything which counters the blocking mechanic is rediculas imho. That build is only used in 4v4... half of which you cannot guarantee any competence from your teammates.
Skillful play should be the counter for stances and guardian.(if a warrior cant score kills past a monk, he either sucks, or is stacked to the brim with hexes, and/or your teammates arnt assisting, which in TA is just bad play, in RA is probably not gona be an issue because monks there get stomped so easily they might as well not be there). Some gimmick which cuts through guardian, stances and then does big damage, shouldnt exist, especially in its current form , wth fast recharge and low cost. If anet actually cared, the solution would probably be a higher recharge, or energy cost, or a more conditional unblockable clause, enchanted is just too easy (crit defense, 'wdfimimmunetoconditions' assassins remedy.)

dont get me wrong. Stance removal is fine, but should be highly conditional or punishing
wild throw has high adr cost, whirling is elite and has adr cost, wild blow removes adr. but wild strike has unblockable lead, costing 5 energy and 'as good as zero' recharge and energy is replenished by the almost guaranteed crit.

This bar pressures through any kind of protection (if combined with shattering assault, which it normally is) combine with rush, and you have a constant, unstoppable dps character, who can remove almost any defense at will with almost no penalty.
and this is 'balanced'... sure

Bobby2 · Jul 28, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

dont get me wrong. Stance removal is fine, but should be highly conditional or punishing
wild throw has high adr cost, whirling is elite and has adr cost, wild blow removes adr. but wild strike has unblockable lead, costing 5 energy and 'as good as zero' recharge and energy is replenished by the almost guaranteed crit.

The very fact that it is an Offhand, and practically requires the use of an otherwise useless Lead, is balancing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

This bar pressures through any kind of protection (if combined with shattering assault, which it normally is) combine with rush, and you have a constant, unstoppable dps character, who can remove almost any defense at will with almost no penalty.
and this is 'balanced'... sure

Except that most Assassins builds have KDs/other forms of shutdown available. There's nothing a Shattersin can do to stop you from doing what you're doing (in the chain itself).

Will Holden · Jul 28, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

take hammer bash, i do

Ghost Dog · Jul 28, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I love how some people here act like sins aren't some cheap gimmicky class added by anet to attract sales from bad players.

I don't even want to hear the sin flames either because it's the absolute truth, every condition that every class has to change an entire bar for or actually work with skill to pull off is given to the sin x10 in a "combo chain".

Grab your +10 piercing and use patient or RoF whatever your flavor and watch the sin press 123456712345671234567 until he dies.Sins rarely think either so even if his teammates die he will continue the 12345671234567 because they don't bring res, they just rush out into arenas and spam their "skill" chain then say something like WTFPWNED MONK! when a mesmer actually shut down the monk they chained.

Use them to your advantage, they are cheap skilless players and if you even remotely screw up their shitty chains or kite them or snare them they throw a fit and overextend to try and "WTFPWN" you.

Xyon the Greatest · Jul 28, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

I love how some people here act like sins aren't some cheap gimmicky class added by anet to attract sales from bad players.

I don't even want to hear the sin flames either because it's the absolute truth, every condition that every class has to change an entire bar for or actually work with skill to pull off is given to the sin x10 in a "combo chain".

Grab your +10 piercing and use patient or RoF whatever your flavor and watch the sin press 123456712345671234567 until he dies.Sins rarely think either so even if his teammates die he will continue the 12345671234567 because they don't bring res, they just rush out into arenas and spam their "skill" chain then say something like WTFPWNED MONK! when a mesmer actually shut down the monk they chained.

Use them to your advantage, they are cheap skilless players and if you even remotely screw up their shitty chains or kite them or snare them they throw a fit and overextend to try and "WTFPWN" you.

Hah, that happens lol! I will be like healing my team really good, then this g9 mesmer will powerblock my woh or something and all i can do is kite, but not to mention other eles or rangers attking me and then the sin just happens to come up to me with his nooby self and use golden fox strike when im at 30 health from other ppl and say WTFPWNED LOL MONK YOU SUCK!! XD XD XO XO NARUTO.

But the worst of all has got to be the 5 year olds on their warrior with no second profession spamming power attk with their sword and following you for the whole game, they dont pose a threath with their 30 damage power attks, but they are kinda annoying, especially when the match goes long.

Anyways Ya.

Ghost Dog · Jul 28, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

Hah, that happens lol! I will be like healing my team really good, then this g9 mesmer will powerblock my woh or something and all i can do is kite, but not to mention other eles or rangers attking me and then the sin just happens to come up to me with his nooby self and use golden fox strike when im at 30 health from other ppl and say WTFPWNED LOL MONK YOU SUCK!! XD XD XO XO NARUTO.

But the worst of all has got to be the 5 year olds on their warrior with no second profession spamming power attk with their sword and following you for the whole game, they dont pose a threath with their 30 damage power attks, but they are kinda annoying, especially when the match goes long.

Anyways Ya.

inb4sin "NO I DON'T DO DAT!11"

But yeah I guess it could be worse I'd rather heal a chaining sin than a defy war.

Chocobo1 · Jul 29, 2009, 02:32 AM // 02:32

What I never understood is how Warrior's stance removal is Wild Blow, which has a energy cost (Already a pain for Warriors) and then has the added effect of removing all adrenaline, while Sins get Wild Strike which has half the recharge and no real downside. I don't really care too much about the unblockable combo, just Wild Strike is a bit too powerful for it.

Krill · Jul 29, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

What I never understood is how Warrior's stance removal is Wild Blow, which has a energy cost (Already a pain for Warriors) and then has the added effect of removing all adrenaline, while Sins get Wild Strike which has half the recharge and no real downside. I don't really care too much about the unblockable combo, just Wild Strike is a bit too powerful for it.

Because anet doesn't balance skills for arenas =/

I guess the theory is that if a skill is unquestionably imbalanced for anything but GvG mATs, but isn't in the GvG metagame, it shouldn't be balanced because then it's out of the usable skill pool, reducing possible build variety for GvG. So, shitters that play TA, tombs etc. have to endure the complete lack of skill balancing and on top of that, the skill buffs done for GvG that have almost all had a disproportionally negative impact on other formats. In summary, eat shit and die we don't care about you.

Osiris_sam · Jul 29, 2009, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

The very fact that it is an Offhand, and practically requires the use of an otherwise useless Lead, is balancing.

That wasnt my point. My point is that, for that kind of balancing to work, the lead which must preceed this must have a chance to fail. otherwise, you end up with the effect of it beeing a lead attack. there is no punishment in having an assassin enchant himself with any number of stupid enchantments (i gave examples) and then continue to whack away anyones defense for next to 0 cost after crit strikes.

on another note: i LOVE how many gimmicks have spawned from the gimmickmasterclass, escape daggers, lyssa daggers, endurance daggers (gfj).

'Welcome to guild wars, we are a skillful based PvP MMO, in which you will roll
your face over 1-7 repeatedly to get kills, enjoy your stay'
comes to mind.

The assassin class as a concept is impossible to balance. How do you have a class that can instagib a target, that cant do this too often (well they fhked up already, if you count the baddies in RA who die to one chain), yet can be stopped by protection (hahhahahhah) yet still be balance
nice joke... heres the solution ~ you remove the retarded gimmick from the game, problem solved... i know now why i didnt go into game design.

Bobby2 · Jul 29, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

That wasnt my point. My point is that, for that kind of balancing to work, the lead which must preceed this must have a chance to fail. otherwise, you end up with the effect of it beeing a lead attack. there is no punishment in having an assassin enchant himself with any number of stupid enchantments (i gave examples) and then continue to whack away anyones defense for next to 0 cost after crit strikes.

A Lead that takes up 2 skill slots. 3, if you count the enchantment that he wouldn't have taken otherwise. This leaves very little room for utility on a Shattersin's bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

on another note: i LOVE how many gimmicks have spawned from the gimmickmasterclass, escape daggers, lyssa daggers, endurance daggers (gfj).

Real dagger Warriors use WotEP. Uh... nevermind.

some guy · Jul 30, 2009, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

The very fact that it is an Offhand, and practically requires the use of an otherwise useless Lead, is balancing.

You do know golden fox is 5 energy 4 recharge unblockable when enchant right

sins get ridiculous enchants...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

Hah, that happens lol! I will be like healing my team really good, then this g9 mesmer will powerblock my woh or something and all i can do is kite, but not to mention other eles or rangers attking me and then the sin just happens to come up to me with his nooby self and use golden fox strike when im at 30 health from other ppl and say WTFPWNED LOL MONK YOU SUCK!! XD XD XO XO NARUTO.

But the worst of all has got to be the 5 year olds on their warrior with no second profession spamming power attk with their sword and following you for the whole game, they dont pose a threath with their 30 damage power attks, but they are kinda annoying, especially when the match goes long.

Anyways Ya.

You pretty much summed up all the sins, and summed up all my pains in RA hahah nicely done

Chocobo1 · Jul 30, 2009, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Because anet doesn't balance skills for arenas =/

I guess the theory is that if a skill is unquestionably imbalanced for anything but GvG mATs, but isn't in the GvG metagame, it shouldn't be balanced because then it's out of the usable skill pool, reducing possible build variety for GvG. So, shitters that play TA, tombs etc. have to endure the complete lack of skill balancing and on top of that, the skill buffs done for GvG that have almost all had a disproportionally negative impact on other formats. In summary, eat shit and die we don't care about you.

Argh, we need a 4v4/8v8/PvE skill split. Shortsighted planning has ruined this game, a long with no updates and no care. Arenas need a huge change, they are all gimmicky and imbalanced.

FoxBat · Jul 30, 2009, 05:59 AM // 05:59

There aren't a handful of skills ruining TA (let alone HB). The game is balanced for 8 player teams at a fundamental level. Witness what happened to 6-man HA. This is not something a simple skillsplit could ever fix.

bungusmaximus · Jul 30, 2009, 06:08 AM // 06:08

They killed signet of midnight because it was ruining everyones arena fun, but I don't think they will nurf the SA combo as well. SA sins are pretty easy to shut down, go figure, a pressure-ish template with 70 al

. Sins should jump in, do their thing, and gtfo before something starts linebacking them. SA sins have to stick around all the time, so if your team isn't bad something will lineback them and they will only get half the damage off.

Ofc you have people that just let them wail on the monk without doing anything about it, but meh, those people deserve to lose.

-Shield bash their attack
-Balanced stance (no crits SUCKS on a SA bar)
-KD sin
-Interrupt sin
-Divert sin

And when they take crit defense, FFS people kite it out till it wears off instead of letting the sin happily refresh it all the time. It works very shortly, the sin should start hitting stuff FAST when he gets crit defense up, else it's wasted.

wuzzman · Jul 30, 2009, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Kiting > their entire bar. Really, balance stance after wild blow, ain't hard, roll mo/a and watch them rage quite do to return and dark escape if the standard woh bar is really that hard. Hell i can run a mo/e and simply spirit bond myself while kiting... Honestly no excuse for a monk to get killed by a sin spiker.

Chocobo1 · Jul 30, 2009, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Kiting > their entire bar. Really, balance stance after wild blow, ain't hard, roll mo/a and watch them rage quite do to return and dark escape if the standard woh bar is really that hard. Hell i can run a mo/e and simply spirit bond myself while kiting... Honestly no excuse for a monk to get killed by a sin spiker.

No ones talking about a 1v1 situation. There is generally 3 other players attacking you, and the sin provides such amazing pressure and you have no real chance for putting up a defensive stance. Even Mo/A, you only have Return as an option because wild blow is 4 second recharge, and is generally couped with Golden Fox Strike, which also has a 4 second recharge. Also, Spirit Bond is kind of overkill imo.

around · Jul 30, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

What you need to do is get a knockdown in the corner, then Aegis Reflector over them and see which way they block.

owait wrong game

Bobby2 · Jul 30, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

You do know golden fox is 5 energy 4 recharge unblockable when enchant right

Yeah sorry but that's pretty useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

sins get ridiculous enchants...

Learn to kite, ffs.

And real men parry.

Osiris_sam · Jul 30, 2009, 12:20 PM // 12:20

@bobby2: assassin is probably gonna have a lead anyway, unless hes palmnub, which needs some hate too imho.
What utility can an assassin carry srsly??? if you can find one assassin in arena who runs anything other than his retard chain, with some self defense bullsht (crit (F) defenses), ill give you an e-cookie.
that skill Still needs to have a longer recharge, thats at the very least.

My point has never been that there arnt counters for it, ofc kiting is the most effective counter for sins (apart from shield bash, lol). Im just saying, that its dumb, that a sin can strip your stance/enchants for practically zero cost, as often as he likes, with almost 0 chance of failure. My point is that there shouldnt be anything which can consistently counter the entire block mechanic, no matter how weak/strong it is. whether it can be countered by good play or not, like i said, countering prots/guardian/blocks SHOULD be down to your skill as a player... not how retarded your skills are.

Yes i would like to see assassins nerfed out of the game, because like you i assume, i realise that its a gimmick class (badly) designed to sell copies. OFC we can only hope that something resembleing a miracle happens and that is the result... because anet dont care/dont want to do that...(lame)

Bobby2 · Jul 30, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

@bobby2: assassin is probably gonna have a lead anyway, unless hes palmnub, which needs some hate too imho.
What utility can an assassin carry srsly??? if you can find one assassin in arena who runs anything other than his retard chain, with some self defense bullsht (crit (F) defenses), ill give you an e-cookie.
that skill Still needs to have a longer recharge, thats at the very least.

Other Sin builds often have utility built into their chains. Leaping Mantis Sting, Horns of the Ox, Golden Lotus Strike are examples of widely used attack skills that bring more to the table than just lolIhituwith+dmg.

And Palm Strike needs more hate? That made me chuckle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

My point has never been that there arnt counters for it, ofc kiting is the most effective counter for sins (apart from shield bash, lol). Im just saying, that its dumb, that a sin can strip your stance/enchants for practically zero cost, as often as he likes, with almost 0 chance of failure. My point is that there shouldnt be anything which can consistently counter the entire block mechanic, no matter how weak/strong it is. whether it can be countered by good play or not, like i said, countering prots/guardian/blocks SHOULD be down to your skill as a player... not how retarded your skills are.

If a target doesn't kite from what is most likely a snare-less Assassin he deserves to die. Even more so when he KNOWS Guardian offers no defense.