Curse

phan · Aug 17, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict Daily

IMidline: rawr's midline, (Asp, Daemon) is among the best.

Who cares ; asp is ugly in real life .

Fux · Aug 17, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

In Mitches world everyone else is worse than KMD players

Thats 100% right

But still - saying that someone is NOT the best doesnt mean he is bad right? Thats what mitch does , so the rest of your post is bullshit imo. And why do you even bother to make such score count (11-0 thing) LOL.

ChopChop · Aug 17, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch

So your guild won a poop trim last mat and you claim it's had it for 2 years? Nice joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch

I leech a cape in dR, please let me guest for your guild!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch

Wars:
Jatt
Firefox

Mesmer:
Scary Something

Rofl..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch

Weren't you a benchwarmer in StS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch

Learn how to play the game..

And that was just page 1 out of 2600 posts.
can you spot the pattern?

I'm just tired of Mitch camping every thread in every forum calling everyone bad while being no godly player himself.
If you want to talk tough then you should be able back it up, otherwise its just BS.
I see no reason to talk like that to other people who put their time into contributing.
Of course the game is dead since noone can stand that attitude for long.

The rest of my post was merely an attempt to provide useful content rather than make it a silly forum war post.

Osiris_sam · Aug 17, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

'You cant learn everything from one person, so learn as much as you can from as many people as you can'
I would follow this, anyone in the top 100 (10 or whatever) has (or at least would hope they have) done something right.
Also consider that, while obs mode is very good, something is missing: Communication -> this is a vital aspect

There is a lot of aspects to 'good play' and, while i am certainly not a high quality player, the best players are the ones who recognise their flaws, and learn from their mistakes.

Sierraa · Aug 18, 2009, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

I would follow this, anyone in the top 100 (10 or whatever) has (or at least would hope they have) done something right.
Also consider that, while obs mode is very good, something is missing: Communication -> this is a vital aspect

There is a lot of aspects to 'good play' and, while i am certainly not a high quality player, the best players are the ones who recognise their flaws, and learn from their mistakes.

I would have to disagree. There's random bspike guilds that are top 100 from K Value change. There a ton of top 100 people who I consider awful, people who tank fire eles without a shield, people who are unable to watch their compass, and need micro'd etc.

I'm going to have to say anyone who's top 20 or places in top 8 consistently is who you need to watch. The other thing to consider is how people make up for mistakes. I consider that to be a huge part of good players/teams.

kedde · Aug 18, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55

I consider it bad whenever a player doesn't weaponswap or otherwise microes.
That's a wasted opportunity to improve on your situation, thus its bad not to utilize it.
Being good at tactics is extremely important, but its still bad for any player to not use anything to his advantage.

Opposite obviously applies.
There are so many players who do one thing well, but really fails at the other.
I see so many examples of this whenever I play.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 18, 2009, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

In Mitches world everyone else is worse than KMD players (yet KMD has only won with 1 warrior spike builds).

The last time anyone won a mAT with a build that was anywhere near a 'balanced' build and didn't abuse VoD was DF, this was also the only time, although I suppose you could say they still 'abused' dual LoD.

ALL the other mATs have been won by more or less gimmicks, some builds more gimmicky than others, I never particularly enjoyed playing builds like these yet the first 2 monthlies where we disregarded 'honor' completely we won gold both times.

Quote:

I am not trying to sound pretentious, just pointing out that I find it curious how you can call players who consistently beat you for bad.
What is the score again? 11-0 maybe one day when they learn to play properly KMD will be a challenge...

That would depend on the direction game balance is going, if stuff keeps randomly getting buffed and the power creep continues we might very well never beat you. There's nothing tangible to win in GW at this point so for me and the people I play with it's really not worth playing terribly boring builds that are centered around winning at 28 minutes.

Quote:

Oh and before you reply, yes I am know I am not among the best players in GW, never claimed to be, I work harder on my game because I know I cannot achieve the mechanical skill of some of the best players. I play to my strength (movement and tactics instead of micro), and so far it seems to work

Well when the builds you run are virtually immune to any kind of pressure you're pretty free in the 'movement and tactics' you use.

Quote:

I never consider or adjust to opponents based on name and reputation, I never make a call like 'that monk is bad just spike him', 'that player sucks we can push in on the split'. I only call plays based on what my opponents actually do and how they react to those plays.
In my opinion when someone calls other people out on forums as bad it just shows me how they think about the game, I dare you to find a player from rawr calling someone bad (not meant in joke).

You find a build that doesn't need to adjust to anything or anyone and then run it until some aspect of it gets nerfed so it no longer works, it's pretty much been like that from day 1.

That you enjoy running builds like this is fine, but I don't.

Quote:

Anyone who can make it to the mAT, to top 100 on the ladder, to the single elims, is doing something right or has some way of winning games that you shouldn't take too lightly on in my opinion.
Considering players sub par and genreally thinking of yourself as good only leads to making mistakes by being overconfident.

Doing something right =/= being good/skilled.

Just look at the last mAT, guilds like [HD], [myrm], [rT] making single elim solely off of their build choice, those guilds are unlikely to ever even win a silver cape again.

The only thing they as you would put it 'did right' was find a powerful and easy to play build, the fact that these builds are available and can be successful is one of the reasons this game got so boring.

Quote:

We never go into a game expecting to win easy, we may cheer a bit when we see a particular build being used against us (hi KMD), but never will we say 'oh these guys lets win this quick'.

We do, so what? Doesn't mean we don't still take it seriously, we play to win quickly, we prefer not dragging matches out and winning by lord damage, maybe we'll lose some more matches because of it but we would all have quit a long time ago if we succumbed to exclusively running the stupid shit most other people are running.

Quote:

Good guildwars is not about lucking out and winning a skirmish fight you should have lost, or getting a way in a situation where you should have gotten killed, that is lucky guildwars.
Good guildwars is making plays, and setting up situations and skirmishes that you *should* be winning, the actual winning of those situations is actually a secondary consideration.

We all know your thoughts on 'good Guild Wars', Rend here in 3, 2, 1.

JR · Aug 18, 2009, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Sounds like Polly is the new Lumi.

øln · Aug 18, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

I will try to see about recording some first person videos, but I am struggling with sound, does anyone have a way to record both my microphone and what I hear through my speakers at the same time?

Can't you just record vent with the builtin thing , and record the video with whatever you use. (unless you want the ingame sound from GW, but that shouldn't be too important.)

Jatt · Aug 18, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by chop chop

I'm just tired of Mitch camping every thread in every forum calling everyone bad while being no godly player himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH"

huge post calling polly bad and himself good which is full of downright lies and logical failures

self fulfilling prophecy?

Fril Estelin · Aug 18, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Sounds like Polly is the new Lumi.

2 things in this thread:

1) private knowledge that ensures that people not in the know will never understand what is said here; I know it's also part of how the PvP community has built itself (Billiard's branding);

2) we're miles away from the OP, into the semantics of good, better and awesome players, with all the disagreement that can sometimes be illustrated by the worse in PvP threads. It's like Kasparov saying (25 years ago) that Karpov is "crap", instead of saying that both of them should be studied by every chess player.

Come on people, bring the "best" out of PvP (I'm not sying it's not been done), inspire people.

Just thought I'd share my 2 cents.

Greedy Gus · Aug 18, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

I think most can agree that this thread could be useful in pinpointing some widely recognized players at each position, based on good individual decision-making and micro skill, for other players who don't have the expertise to know who to watch to see the current highest level of play.

Not making the short list doesn't mean bad. For example rawr as a guild has made their success on minimizing any and all risk throughout the game, metagaming well, and at least early on being microed by an overlord. They've had the most success of any guild without anyone being known for the most skillful play, but that doesn't delegitimize posting that someone can watch champ or nihil to see the highest levels of individual play.

booyacs · Aug 18, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

The thing is people are focusing too much on individual play and less on team play. I try to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of teams before seeing who did what.

Watch rawr and their movement. dR had really good movement as well. Also watch the spike builds and see how they move and coordinate. This way you can counter them with minor adjustments in game.

However if you want to watch what teams/individuals do to win then watch the midlines/backlines of the guilds. Watch the kiting/protting/healing. Then watch the movement control and how they gain/lose position. When they retreat do they fall completely out or do they fall back just enough to take pressure off the monks.

Then after you know the different styles of movement and play then you can watch the individual players. By doing this you can see what makes up the team and how well they appear to be working together. However you can take the best 8 players in the game put them on a team and a good/great team can beat them.

So IMO by looking at individual players you are doing yourself a disservice. You should look at the teams over the individual play.

Reverend Dr · Aug 18, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

We are post defensive web. Right now micro play is just not nearly as important as team movement and tactics. If you are actually interested in the game itself, then watch everyone, particularly good matches watch a few times.

Mitch there is also a fine line between talking about how the game is balanced and should be balanced versus just not adapting to the game itself. Contempt for no "honor balanced" winning tournaments shows that you really do not understand the fundamental nature of tournaments themselves. Do sports teams always run the exact same offense, even when they know the teams they are facing and the strengths and weaknesses thereof? Of course they don't, not doing the same in a tourney makes just as much sense.

Edit: VV my posts may be entertaining, but I'm certainly not someone to watch for consistent play (if you ever see our rank 2K guild on obs).

360° · Aug 19, 2009, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Who to watch not in-game is a different matter too. Even here in Guru there are good posters who you should watch. Most posters here are terrible, myself included. :P I can't really recall many good posters atm, but I read always Greedy Gus's and Reverend Dr's posts for example. There are others too, but I can only remember those 2 atm. Of course some rare poster's like Ensign's posts should be read pretty much always.

pah01 · Aug 19, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

In Mitches world everyone else is worse than KMD players (yet KMD has only won with 1 warrior spike builds).
I am not trying to sound pretentious, just pointing out that I find it curious how you can call players who consistently beat you for bad.
What is the score again? 11-0 maybe one day when they learn to play properly KMD will be a challenge...
Oh and before you reply, yes I am know I am not among the best players in GW, never claimed to be, I work harder on my game because I know I cannot achieve the mechanical skill of some of the best players. I play to my strength (movement and tactics instead of micro), and so far it seems to work

The problem is that you tend to get spiked in primal and frenzy far too frequently. Secondly even in that video you get spiked in the end way out of position as an elementalist.

This is what enrages those guys. It is like you are saying to them, I can and do make basic micro errors and give you all this stuff to call me bad with but im still going to win the match anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

I never consider or adjust to opponents based on name and reputation, I never make a call like 'that monk is bad just spike him', 'that player sucks we can push in on the split'. I only call plays based on what my opponents actually do and how they react to those plays.
In my opinion when someone calls other people out on forums as bad it just shows me how they think about the game, I dare you to find a player from rawr calling someone bad (not meant in joke).

Well Mitch as a forum personality is a prat now.

Secondly if you know a certain player on the opposing team is weak why wouldnt you try and spike him more frequently due to positioning mistakes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

Anyone who can make it to the mAT, to top 100 on the ladder, to the single elims, is doing something right or has some way of winning games that you shouldn't take too lightly on in my opinion.
Considering players sub par and genreally thinking of yourself as good only leads to making mistakes by being overconfident.
We never go into a game expecting to win easy, we may cheer a bit when we see a particular build being used against us (hi KMD), but never will we say 'oh these guys lets win this quick'.
I may approach a ladder or daily AT game differently than a single elim mAt game, but I take it equally seriously whether my opponent is rank400 or top10.

Thats mitches problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

'Learn where to go first, then worry about how to play.' <- This is much more important than anyone seems to give it credit for.
If more people understood this concept they would be much better players than they currently are.

When I observe a game I almost solely watch for movement, how people use their skills, who gets what interrupted etc. really does't interest me all that much.

Good guildwars is not about lucking out and winning a skirmish fight you should have lost, or getting a way in a situation where you should have gotten killed, that is lucky guildwars.
Good guildwars is making plays, and setting up situations and skirmishes that you *should* be winning, the actual winning of those situations is actually a secondary consideration.
If you are constantly getting yourself in a position where you should be able to score kills than that will eventually lead you to getting those kills even if you miss a couple of them.

Mitch is too busy thinking about spiking you in frenzy to see that what you say here is correct.

Joe

emuking · Aug 19, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Well watching too many observe matches hurts my head because too much watching and not enough playing turns you into a sports announcer (AKA they dont know wtf they are talking about anymore)

Now I'm just going to revert back to the OP and assume you are an average player like me. I'll give you some real tips that I've found useful.

Determine whether you are watching Observe match to (1)learn and actually focus on the match, (2) look for mistakes between player(s), (3) or if you are doing it because you are bored and just wanna see things explode. If you aren't focused on the match u are gonna fail come testtime (like a class in school!)
Watch the rawr players, they have been playing together forever and have synergy.. you want that synergy on your team. (rawrforums has some recent GvG video with vent included in the video that i found it super useful since vent is a big part of GvG) Watch that video twice, just do it.

You have the lucky opporitunity to observe ANYONE on observe matches so look for the best of the best and dont observe anyone else. I say this becaus if you are observing to learn basics and dont really know what mistakes look like then dont pick mediocre players to observe because you most likely won't be able to distinguish their pro split tactics/positioning from their mistakes.

Ex: i saw a ranger run a flag on a recent GvG match and then the flagger ran back to the base to pick it up and he just stood still for a second (That's because he was like "WTF where did my flag go?")

The ranger either didnt speak on vent or wasn't heard by the flagger so there is a mistake that is SOMEONE's fault (either the ranger or the flagger) since you dont know who made that mistake (you dont know what happened on vent) you should stop watchng them and pick a new team to watch. (remember, you are looking for the BEST team to watch and that is a mistake that occurs on badteams with bad communication)

Overall have a goal in mind when you are watching observe matches, don't just think that you have observed 100 matches with Dhaina (I LOVE U) in it that you are suddenly going to master GvG tactics; you should start playing with your teammates.

Ignore Mitch on these threads

Watch The mAT GvGs... nothing is more srs than mAT finals and pick players to watch who mess up very FEW times (you wanna watch people who NEVER mess up so you can be like them!)

Players to watch: R E F L E C T E D on monk is strong (world's hardest target to bullstrike)

adrifts · Aug 19, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Americans play terrible on European servers, and Europeans play terrible on American servers. Nuff said.

Div · Aug 19, 2009, 10:08 PM // 22:08

American players-wise, this would be a good list:

Warrior- Jatt, Noodle, Wolfy
Ranger- Champ, Broken
Ele- Asp Lode, Unequivocal Kiro
Monk- Reflected, Anata Flora, Divine Nine
Flagger- Zero

Honourable mentions:
Braintumor bitchrole (sigmes, para, bip necro)- Coffee Shop Love
Parentspiked ranger- Khang Poo
Ungodly ping for insane infuses- Awowa Prime
Food per second flagger- Spirit Conjuress
Honourary Cardinal- Protoss Arcanist

Demigod Heracles · Aug 20, 2009, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Honourable mentions:

Parentspiked ranger- Khang Poo

no honorable mention in this category for me? you're slipping my friend