Curse

pah01 · Sep 01, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

I am sorry chopchop.

I mean mindblast is fine its just the tiebreaker.

Burton2000 · Sep 01, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

I am sorry chopchop.

I mean mindblast is fine its just the tiebreaker.

Lets be honest the tie breaker is not going to get changed anymore and imo im okay with that as with the skill balances we are getting its much better than VoD.

Imagine the current meta with VoD in you would just have R/A farming npcs with death blossom while aided by lingering curse and visions of regret. The tie breaker really isnt that bad I mean most games rarely even go to 28 minutes except ones on maps like burning isle.

pah01 · Sep 01, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

burton all of that crap needs to go. If chop chop genuinely believes that r/a are balanced then i can fully understand how anet will continue to fail.

Byron · Sep 01, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Maybe my memories are blurred, but I think it is only recently that rawr has used builds that are defined as "meta." Their first four or five golds were won with a defensive warrior spike where everyone else was running imba hexes, dR derv spike, crazy big buffed wounding strike dervs, etc. Though rawr spike was largely imitated after seeing such great success in tournaments, no team could come close to the winning ways of rawr. Respect is due and their fame is well deserved, imo.

That said, two skills very important to that build, warding and a-rage, were nerfed. Repeatedly, as I recall. Yes, they probably deserved to be nerfed but that isn't the issue. Were rawr to have some biased 'influence' in the balance forums, I doubt those nerfs would have come to pass.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 01, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

Stuff

It's not so much meant as a smear campaign rather than a way to try to change the direction in which the game has been heading the past year or so.

I honestly don't care about rawr or about who wins an mAT as there really isn't anything on the line anymore anyway.

I care about this game and want to enjoy playing it, the game has been dumbed down so much and rawr just so happens to be the main (dare I say, only?) people who seem to support this direction of skills over skill.

Both elite buff updates were a disaster from balance perspective, and cost easily well over 6 months of dev time to be even somewhat fixed (some of the problems even still linger around). Now these updates were afaik mostly suggestions from Izzy/Anet with a little feedback and maybe a handful of skills that were based on suggestions from players.

They only added to the powercreep, destroyed the meta for months and Polly (I'm not sure who else from rawr was a firm proponent of them, so I won't group you all together here Asp) was posting how brilliant the updates were for the game etc. etc.

The only thing I'm questioning is wether or not rawr has too much influence on the process of skill balance.

While it's true that the real problems (Rend, Ancestor's, Turret Rangers, Lingering Curse, Primal Rage, etc.) usually end up getting fixed. I have the very strong feeling this would have happened way more rapidly, if in the case of Rend, rawr, and in the case of all the others, mostly Polly and to a lesser extent Jatt didn't constantly point out how they didn't think skills were problematic (even if EVERYONE else agreed they were) or were problematic (in the case of Aegis, where no one outside of rawr seemed to agree with the nerf and most people even being very much against it).

I don't care how many goldcapes you've won, or how many you'll win in the future, I just want to be able to actually enjoy playing this game again.

Maybe for you this isn't an issue as rawr only plays once a month anyway, but most people that play more often that I've talked to about balance seem to share my view on the game being dumbed down to much and being very boring and bland as a result of it.

The very build diversity you always seem to bring up in arguments is pretty much at an all time low.

And making claims like R/A aren't problematic and then running 3 of them yourself does attract a little suspicion...

Jeydra · Sep 01, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

@Mitch -

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

But if Mitch thinks that we wouldn't win if certain skills got nerfed then I would like to challenge him to a best of five GvG match, Mitch make a list of skills that cannot be used, and the stakes will be 8000 keys?
Or was it all talk no substance?

?

Osiris_sam · Sep 01, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

lol are you kidding me? I knew R/As would be flying around with all the *insert long line of offensive words* players in GW as soon as i saw those notes. The fact of the matter is, it doesnt matter who they are getting their feedback from, becuase clearly, all you top level GvGers have your own agenda (dont even try to argue). and yes... i know people who RA who COULD make better balance suggestions. AT no point in any game, is a class with stupid fast attacks that are virtually untouchable a good idea.

While yes, gw has been balanced relatively well for a no fee game, it still has broken skills which have never really been addressed. Well thats a no brainer.

Someone said that if you take a large amount of feedback from the community and balance from that, the bias is canceled. this is only true if any personal bias is random... which, it isnt. (not that a large sample wouldnt produce better balance ofc)

I dont pretend to be a good player, nor do i pretend that i have the answer to broken skills. But i can see a broken skill, and understand why its broken, and look, i play RA a lot.

Asplode · Sep 01, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Well, seeing as how this thread is completely flying off the original topic (August mAT prediction... thread?) I suppose I'll pop in and throw in two thinking points.

* In a game where everyone has access to the same skills and equipment, how can you possibly engineer a metagame where only 1 team can possibly win?
* Better yet, how do you make it where 1 team that uses the swiss rounds for practice for the mAT wins?

Next, there's this idea that rawr is overrepresented.
Here's a fact to chew on...
Postcount:
Average postcount of all rawr members: ~196
Mitch, alone: 1019

Here's the more important thing, though:
Devs always listen to player suggestions, whether it's in a sequestered, over-hyped forum or here in Guru. However, to believe that they ever feel obligated to listen to any player over any other player is simply delusional; a desire to form an excuse and derail an otherwise productive train of thought.

So, that being said, it's a game; have fun!
(Oh, inb4 someone quotes the "fun" thing and begins to cry about R/A's and hexes and stuff)

*lemming* · Sep 01, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

Here's a fact to chew on...
Postcount:
Average postcount of all rawr members: ~196

196 posts/member * 9 members = 1764 posts.

How many does the next-most represented guild have?

Asplode · Sep 01, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

8 members, so 1568
dR has like 1248 (avg between 7 accounts ~178)
DF still has 1111 (avg between 6 accounts ~185)
KMD has about 1400 (avg between 3 accounts ~466.6)

Well actually, Flaming isn't part of KMD anymore so that's just Mitch and Ego now, so a total of 1148 (avg between 2 accounts ~574)

Other Americans add up to about 1750
Other Euros add up to almost 1500 + Flaming = 1750 :P

-last edit-

One thing to also keep in mind is that a lot of rawr and dR's posts were back in '08 where we were busy talking about other equally inconsequential BS; the euro representation has in fact risen sharply in recent months while everyone else has pretty much taken a back seat.
Also, Polly is in Denmark, so I guess we can count him as a euro too >________>

Phelann · Sep 01, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

For a person with no prior GvG experience Anet could not have a picked a better person for the job she is doing.

Like, alot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

So, that being said, it's a game; have fun!

Also, based on what you said in irc you certainly didn't sound like you actually had fun playing the game during the tournament. And based on your post and posts by awowa it sounds like rawr is more about deriving satisfaction from winning than actually having fun.

There is a major difference here, and I think the main debate between rawr and so many other folks is that rawr feels the game should be heading in a direction geared to the former.

While most people just want to actually have fun playing.

Honestly I don't why people even bother having this debate anymore. There are always going to be the pure play2win folks, then there are those that want to win and actually want to have fun doing it. The people winning tournaments can just always go neenerneener we won we found the best build neenerneener neener your jealous you would have done it to neenerneener, and will continue to just tell themselves that instead of realizing that no, its true, people really do just want to be able to have fun playing and not just play2win.

SIGH I DONT KNOW WHY I WASTED TIME TYPING THAT ANYWAY.

Inde · Sep 01, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

The point of this thread has ended. It's now off topic, conspiracies and accusations flying back and forth.