Curse

Krill · Sep 13, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

Simply reverting a handful of skills in an emergency update really can't take long since they have all the information and code needed already.

Update - Thursday, August 7, 2008

Way of the Assassin: functionality changed to: "(20 seconds.) You attack 5...29...35% faster and have +5...29...35% chance to land a critical hit."

Update - Friday, August 8, 2008

Way of the Assassin: this skill now only works with daggers; reduced attack speed increase to 5..20%.

Maybe it's not possible to do this sort of thing anymore. Because of the anet NDA Lindsey cannot even entertain questions on her wiki page such as who thought of these skill buffs, who vetted these skill buffs and why was it not immediately recognized as OP (like the first WotA buff) and fixed? Instead we've had what will certainly be remembered as one of the most notorious months in GW history.

DarkNecrid · Sep 13, 2009, 02:42 PM // 14:42

I saw an interesting change to Mind Blast suggested on Wiki, posted by Racthoh.

"Target foe is struck for 15...51...60 fire damage. If you have more Energy than target foe, you gain +3 Energy Regeneration for 1...7...8 seconds."

I like it.

Hope the update is good. :/

Ex Death · Sep 13, 2009, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Build warsing opponents is one thing when the other guild can only run a gimmick but when both guilds are good then the optimal choice should be a balanced build.

Nice joke.

Also, Exhausting Assault, Wastrel's Collapse and Defensive Anthem do not need to be nerfed. Not that I would care if they do.

Will Holden · Sep 13, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

destroying r/a's will make me happy

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 13, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

I played at the top of the ladder when Aegis was party range and 15 energy. It wasn't a problem then.

Getting 1 silver isn't what I would call 'at the top of the ladder', party range Aegis was kinda a problem as it forced teams to run Mirror of Disenchantment or be pretty ineffective for ~10 seconds, pushing on the flag runners to interrupt it can be done, it is however very map dependant.

I think making Aegis in the area range was a good change as it made mistakes away from the main team less forgiving, made Aegis easier to shutdown and it made it less mindless by needing to watch positioning to get maximum effect out of it.

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However it is needed even more now to deal with poison spread, paragons particularly dual paragon builds.

I agree that some passive defense is required and that obliterating Aegis was a bad move.

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If one looks at flagger builds currently something would have to change to make them carry it.

Well yeah, which currently won't happen, with a hit to Recuperation and some buffs to another form of party healing (LoD or Heal Party) I think you'll start seeing other flag runners.

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Aegis only became a problem when Monks could carry it due to the buff to GoLE, and then Paragons could chain with defensive anthem and shields up and that was before the change to mesmer interrupts being able to interrupt chants.

Not really, it was a problem when flaggers brought it and monks could run it fine without glyph after it got nerfed to Area range as it was only 10e at the time.

Shields up was obviously broken and is currently not very problematic anymore (though I still dislike the concept of the skill) DA requiring a hard interrupt was a nuisance but atm it's fine (maybe people will run P/D like nH did for a bit but that's more of a problem with Pious Conc than DA).

I don't think Aggressive refrain is really a problem, the problem with paragons atm is the lack of passive block defense and stuff like Mending Refrain, Never Surrender and Stand Your Ground.

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Well one of the issues with exhausting assault is that it gets two shots at interrupting things through gaurdian and other 50% block skills. I genuinely believe that this needs fixing.

That's fair enough I suppose, I did overlook that, I still think changing it to an off-hand attack will make the skill more robust atm though.

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Well certainly the skill needs toning down and from my experience it is a problem in an 8v8 setting. It is one of those skills that reduce pressure = dshot mindblast.

It really isn't, in 8v8 situations mind blast eles are rather mediocre, they can put out decent damage but are very fragile as they rely on enchantments a lot and on mindblast. I'd support nerfs to the template but I think skills like Distortion, Featherfootgrace and Immolate are bigger problems than Mindblast.

Nimble Night · Sep 13, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

Nerf Paras any more, and you might as well just take them out of the game, cause it's been NERF NERF NERF from Day 1, so they were OBVIOUSLY a badly overpowered design... so why keep em in?

With failures like 'hero battles' being removed from the game, fingers crossed the paragon class will follow

As for aegis I would love to see it reverted. As it is the only skill you need to interrupt is ress sig so your defensive spike build can chain kill. (This is assuming everyone will simply revert to rawrspike when the r/a's are nerfed).

urania · Sep 13, 2009, 06:21 PM // 18:21

do we really need threads like this still?

dont die-hard advocates of what should and should not be balanced get tired after months, if not years, of talking to a wall.

for my part, as much as i'd love seeing shove spike, mantra of resolve, eda and whatnot die and never return, i know it wont ever happen and im tired of complaining.

MaaKotka · Sep 13, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Tone down most +damage numbers and +healing numbers and we are going somewhere.

X Cytherea X · Sep 13, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

lol pah01 says WC is not a problem, but nerf it because it's stupid. what a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing dumbass.

Burton2000 · Sep 13, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

All you do is revert jagged strike and fox fangs and R/A is no more. Of course this is Anet we are talking about so they will try and nerf it like they nerfed lingering curse.

Byron · Sep 13, 2009, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Escape to end on a melee attack, or maybe an attack skill, would solve probably 50% of the issues with this month's meta. Eliminate the quasi-invincible status of that bloody R/A, and it will fade out.

Mind blast is a fragile issue. Smiters boon it and similar although weaker templates will still exist, ie shatterstone. Nonetheless, as mitch said, much of the power comes from the constant immolate capability. Just as well, it has the power to rodgort's several times in short order. That combined with its survivability make it a no-brainer on maps like burning and frozen. A good fix might be to make either mind blast or immolate conditional based on burning. Being able to keep a constant burn is too much, certainly on a split character.

Aegis, interesting. I liked it best when it was 15e, 2s cast, party block. Keeping it at aggro range would be best, obviously. High risk, high reward kind of skill.

The argument on healing nerfs seems theoretical at best. Start tinkering with those things and the meta loses a lot of stability, imho.

pah01 · Sep 13, 2009, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Getting 1 silver isn't what I would call 'at the top of the ladder', party range Aegis was kinda a problem as it forced teams to run Mirror of Disenchantment or be pretty ineffective for ~10 seconds, pushing on the flag runners to interrupt it can be done, it is however very map dependant.

I think making Aegis in the area range was a good change as it made mistakes away from the main team less forgiving, made Aegis easier to shutdown and it made it less mindless by needing to watch positioning to get maximum effect out of it.

...

Not really, it was a problem when flaggers brought it and monks could run it fine without glyph after it got nerfed to Area range as it was only 10e at the time.

Mirror of disenchantment is nightfall. Go look up the flagger bars pre nightfall to occasionally see use of aegis on the flagger bar.

Mitch try to remember back before nightfall release

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

That's fair enough I suppose, I did overlook that, I still think changing it to an off-hand attack will make the skill more robust atm though.

Exhausting assault doesn't require the full chain so i do not know where you are going with this. Must follow a lead attack????

P.S when i was good only a few guilds had got silver cape. IE: BEFORE NIGHTFALL.

I never earned a silver cape because i didnt play much after nf

Joe

kedde · Sep 13, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

The reason for making it offhand is that it then no longer gets two hits, quite obvious.

moriz · Sep 13, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Exhausting assault doesn't require the full chain so i do not know where you are going with this. Must follow a lead attack????

exhausting assault as an offhand will allow it to be followed up by any dual attack, as opposed to just moebius strike atm. this makes it more versatile than what it is right now.

Burton2000 · Sep 13, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

exhausting assault as an offhand will allow it to be followed up by any dual attack, as opposed to just moebius strike atm. this makes it more versatile than what it is right now.

Not really because the 8 recharge means it isnt viable to use in the jagged/deathblossom chain (which is the problem that people are talking about atm) and as it has no + damage it is weak in the middle of the chain. Either way the skill is only powerful because rangers have the energy to spam it on recharge which is besides the point. All you need to do is revert jagged strike and fox fangs. People didnt give a shit about exhausting assault before those 2 were buffed.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 13, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Mirror of disenchantment is nightfall. Go look up the flagger bars pre nightfall to occasionally see use of aegis on the flagger bar.

I don't remember Aegis being that popular on flagger bars pre-nf, it got some play here and there but it was only until after NF release when SoR flagger became popular that people really started running Aegis on flagrunners en masse.

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Exhausting assault doesn't require the full chain so i do not know where you are going with this. Must follow a lead attack????

The not hitting twice part will be gone with it being an off-hand attack however you would be able to follow it up with any dual attack, whereas now on the R/A bar you need to start over again with lead + offhand before you can use a dual attack.

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P.S when i was good only a few guilds had got silver cape. IE: BEFORE NIGHTFALL.

Remind me which guilds you were in then, I remember you having [DrE] under your guru name for ages so I went by that.

Kaon · Sep 13, 2009, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Make gale 5 energy again!

Oh and obviously kill ranger assassins. Don't just nerf them slightly kill them. Then nerfs to mindblast, word of healing, patient spirit, and guardian please.

Also, pah01. Wastrels collapse assassin is the most fun role that has ever been in the history of guild wars. I would be very angry if this role too gets nerfed. Alongside turret rangers (read the wind), gale warriors, and oldschool cripshot rangers.

moriz · Sep 13, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

WC assassins are too effective for how easy it is for them to execute, and how little drawbacks the build present.

and yeah, make the assassin skill changes from the last update to be PVE only. after all, the sited reason for buffing them was for PVE anyway. that alone will kill the R/A builds.

pah01 · Sep 13, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I don't remember Aegis being that popular on flagger bars pre-nf, it got some play here and there but it was only until after NF release when SoR flagger became popular that people really started running Aegis on flagrunners en masse.

And wasn't this the meta where Defensive Anthem, Fast cast ward melee and some copies of shields up were likely to be present?

I'd be guessing that the problem is a little deeper than a flagger carrying Aegis.

Secondly this was also the LOD / [prot elite] meta where the flagger no longer had party healing duties or had to worry about them a lot less.

Thirdly I can understand someone thinking that Aegis is a problem at party range but you got to look beyond the state of the meta about that time.

Lastly If you are going to run Aegis on the flagger bar now I think you just gave away your ability to do a bunch of things. You will be losing warding, snares or party heals. It may have no effect, but a smart midliner at the stand is going to try and go back out of range of a ranger or mes to try and cast the skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

The not hitting twice part will be gone with it being an off-hand attack however you would be able to follow it up with any dual attack, whereas now on the R/A bar you need to start over again with lead + offhand before you can use a dual attack.

That would just change up their chain. I do however believe that getting two chances to interrupt through a block skill is more broken than just making assasins / some other class utilizing a dagger chain have a slightly different chain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Remind me which guilds you were in then, I remember you having [DrE] under your guru name for ages so I went by that.

I guess the best way to find out who I was would be to ask Kaon about a guy called Munch who was our guilds caller all the way from prohecies to the end of that winterfest season. It was multiple reforms but if you remember our tags id be surprised. OuT, GoaT [swift made a lot of money selling it], Flop, cM, and probably a few others.

Burton was our Ranger at the time of OuT.

DrE was only a reform of the players who decided to come back but I wasn't one of them. I only played in the smurf eneogh to keep up with what was going on and eneogh to make it champ range to sell it I guess.

I admit I have never made an effort to really get good at the game again, but that doesn't take away from what I remember and what I observe when I come back after two periods away from the game.

Sometimes I think the state of the top players in the game can be summed up by Kaon owning up Polly in the other thread about the original FOC spike.
People have forgotten.

Joe

Bobby2 · Sep 13, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

WC assassins are too effective for how easy it is for them to execute, and how little drawbacks the build present.

Whoa, whoa. The drawback is having to play an Assassin, and you know this.