Curse

kosh · Sep 16, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

so with some luck escape will get nerf next update,
so in the spirit of the game i give you

[OgcTYzL3zxhxwOYyyVmxZzQbAA]

jagged strike
fox fangs
death blossom
enraged lunge
tiger fury
charm
comfort
empty skill here - rez sig, though with run as one or any other BM skill u can get nicer numbers (ab etc).

edit: im running it at 14 exp 9/9 and i can keep tigers up 24/7.
maybe Rao version can be done also lol.

Chocobo1 · Sep 16, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Nowhere near as strong.

Evil Eye · Sep 16, 2009, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Pretty sure why it was used was because of the retarded ability to spam and receive little damage.

majikmajikmajik · Sep 16, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

i think alot of the community that think it needs a nerf needs to check out this.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stanc...tering_stances
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Melee_counter
Escape is fine. the problem lies in the recharge and casting time of the skills.

as for your build, you exchanged all your survivability for extra damage.
IF escape gets changed, expect flashing blades to replace it

Saph · Sep 16, 2009, 01:57 AM // 01:57

The reason Escape was used because it blocks pretty much all hits. That build doesnt even have a block.

subarucar · Sep 16, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Escape is not OP, its the dagger skills. Barely anyone ran dagger rangers before those skills got buffed, barely anyone ran escape before those skills got buffed.
I would balance it by giving Death Blossom a longer recharge, but not so long as to kill the skill. Or alternativley, revert the skills back to their origional activation times, I don't belive many people started using those skills on assassins after they were buffed anyway.

Perfected Shadow · Sep 16, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

The problem is the combination of a fast dagger chain, block stances making them far too resilient, and expertise allowing them to spam the said dagger chain. When considering what should be nerfed, think about this, is the fast dagger chain and death blossom used to such an extent, if at all, by any other class? If not then why nerf those if the issue is only with R/A? That doesn't make sense.

So I think a hit to expertise to work only on ranger skills, or escape ending on attack seem more suitable.

Betrayer of Wind · Sep 16, 2009, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Nerfing expertise doesn't make ANY sense.
that would kill all the versatility that rangers have and was always balanced.
IMO,increase the activation on jagged strike OR raise the recharge on fox fangs to 4 seconds.That would give a good hit on the chain itself.

Master Ketsu · Sep 16, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

The best non Escape R/A is Assault Enchant IMO. Which in many ways is even more OP.

assassinx · Sep 16, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

i am in agreement with those who posted above about escape not getting nerfed, rather the recharge on the skills are imba.

however, what people forget is that this version of sway, replaced the former R/D sway. what was the result of that nerf? the duration of escape was reduced (by half, if i am correct).

that is why escape and expertise will not be nerfed.

also, people are forgetting that this build existed when factions first went live. there were the premade template builds when you created pvp characters. (prior to factions there were the abominable snowman and ivex trapper, etc., for those who remember).

the R/A premade was:

jagged strike
fox fangs
horns of the ox
falling spider
lightning reflexes
escape
troll's unguent
rez sig

so to kill the argument, before it exists that, that it is just the new meta: its been meta before, and the escape dagger ranger has been around since the beginning of factions.

banding colleague · Sep 16, 2009, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Meh...Escape Daggers doesn't seem over-powered to me. Came across one a couple of days ago on my monk. Just kinda shrugged them off...maybe just a bad ranger?

IronSheik · Sep 16, 2009, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Bringing wildblow in most of my GvG teams is quite annoying now.

But it's definitely the dagger skills, not the blocks.

Coward Sin in RA works wonders now.

Borat_Best_Player · Sep 16, 2009, 10:42 AM // 10:42

It's both the dagger attacks and the blocks.

Escape rangers have already seen plau before, as R/D's. Back then, it was the same problem: Sythe with 3/4 sec activation time on attack skills that acts as an IAS.

Dagger sins, mainly death blossom spam, has ALWAYS been powerfull. Problem was that uptill now, you had to use a lead, offhand and then deathblossom. If one of those got interrupted, you went from doing 1.5x-2x Warrior pressure to 0 pressure.
Right now, Jagged and Fox fangs are virtually uninterruptable, thus you can spam death blossom as much as you want, without having to worry about lead and offhand.

It's a combination of those to, and nerfing either one will tome the R/A bar down. No block stances means you'll still have some nice pressure, but unlike a warrior, you will die fast. (Lightening still is a problem, but that should have gotten nerfed a long time ago)
Nerf the dagger attacks, and you'll still have your immune rangers, but they won't pump as much anymore.

Either way, the bar will definatly get hurt, problem is that neither fixes the core of those problem. Expertise is definatly a huge factor, but in reality, the true problem is that you got a huge pressuring target running around, that's immune to all damage...

warriorsmiley · Sep 16, 2009, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat_Best_Player

Either way, the bar will definatly get hurt, problem is that neither fixes the core of those problem. Expertise is definatly a huge factor, but in reality, the true problem is that you got a huge pressuring target running around, that's immune to all damage...

I feel the same exact way. While expertise gets abused for secondary uses nerfing expertise isn't the way to go. If they kill expertise you make the ranger a stand alone class which cant dig deep into there secondary skills. IMO the best way to kill the abuse of stances and secondary skills on a ranger is to make the stances end on attack skill. I feel anet has to think longer and harder on skill balances especially attack skills they not only have to test it on the primary class they have to test it as a secondary class as well.

Master Ketsu · Sep 16, 2009, 11:23 AM // 11:23

To be more specific, End on non-bow attack skills.

Nerfing those skills for ending on any attack would basically be a smiters boon.

warriorsmiley · Sep 16, 2009, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

To be more specific, End on non-bow attack skills.

Nerfing those skills for ending on any attack would basically be a smiters boon.

True enough should have made it more clear.

kosh · Sep 16, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

I feel the same exact way. While expertise gets abused for secondary uses nerfing expertise isn't the way to go. If they kill expertise you make the ranger a stand alone class which cant dig deep into there secondary skills. IMO the best way to kill the abuse of stances and secondary skills on a ranger is to make the stances end on attack skill. I feel a.net has to think longer and harder on skill balances especially attack skills they not only have to test it on the primary class they have to test it as a secondary class as well.

u cant just nerf stances to end on attack. IAS+IMS saying hello. the problem lies with things like defensive stance like escape, escape should end on attack.

also ranger expertise has been a problem since day one starting with touch ranger. expertise should have been for bow/traps only. from all those meta over the last 4 years or so there was always a r/ version. this escape daggrs shit just amplify the problem.

but hey... gw2 is getting closer.

edit: also, imo ranger were always versatile enough to be a" stand alone" class, pet master, traps,and way up high the bow attacks. with so many build revolve around 7 skills the same, and 1 elite differ, and still 1 skill make a totally different way of playing.
also, when this games will die and we night vote for the golden builds of all time, i think the ranger template will be on of those that will be what to call "complate".i dont belive that no one who can appreciate the class can say say this the role ranger should have.

payne · Sep 16, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by banding colleague

Meh...Escape Daggers doesn't seem over-powered to me. Came across one a couple of days ago on my monk. Just kinda shrugged them off...maybe just a bad ranger?

either your a compitent monk (as rarely seen in RA :P ) or it was a bad ranger....

they are OP'd - dual stance ( as seen regularily) is OP, 75% block with near infinate upkeep is difficult for melee to get hits in (don't see alot of wars with wild blow in RA - my experience)

and these things can blow casters apart without a good monk or even with a monk with dual R/A combined pressure

the spike is too quick recharing as highlighted in the above posts...

think the daggers need nerfed not escape - rather hit a few lesser popular 'sin skills then take another whack at nerfing expertise elites

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

but hey... gw2 is getting closer.

(Y) thats the spirit - just another 1 1/2years to wait lmao

and touchers = ****

IMO - bow attacks + pets + spirits is fine...don't get alot of hassle from r/rt spirit spammers tbh...and ranger spirits would also be effected if the expertise nerf was as such....just remove touch skills from it and that would be good IMO

kosh · Sep 16, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

they are OP'd - dual stance ( as seen regularily) is OP, 75% block with near infinate upkeep is difficult for melee to get hits in (don't see alot of wars with wild blow in RA - my experience)

WE was op for sure, but that as one of the only template that i could use WB on my war. Ive always hated the fact that the only way of removing stancs cant be run with adrenaline builds.

and yes u can use whirling axe now, but im sorry that build is srsly gimping on the dmg side.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 16, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

and yes u can use whirling axe now, but im sorry that build is srsly gimping on the dmg side.

As opposed to running Wild Blow? Even on WE warrior it was gimping your bar.

Stances simply shouldnt be that strong that you need stance removal to deal with them. And even all the drawbacks of stance removal skills aside, it's almost impossible to keep up with Escape + LR.