Curse

moriz · Oct 05, 2009, 11:02 PM // 23:02

or, i'm already taking fire from other targets, and the sin just happens to provide the damage to finally pop me. or, in the case of RA, i have a lame team that lost the match right off the bat. being able to score kills on something doesn't prove much, simply because GW is not a 1v1 game.

your quote basically proves my point. you can play the game in the "here and now", but cannot (or unwilling) anticipate what will happen next. the typical assassin build simply does not have the room to fit in meaningful utility, and in many ways, not reward those who have this ability, at least not in the same way as a warrior or ranger can. you've mentioned that you can bring more utility on assassin builds, and you are right. however, you'll be sacrificing too much damage. not to mention, a lot of utility skills don't work all that well on assassins to begin with. doing so will gimp your build in both fronts.

Quote:

If ANY assassin player is rolling his face, he'll get the same face rolling results as any other player playing any other class doing the same.

not true. let's see you roll face on a monk, or a 22DPS cripshot ranger (or any ranger builds for that matter). you'll never get the same results as you would with a sin. it's much easier to just mash buttons on an assassin than almost any other profession, and that's irrefutable.

Magikarp · Oct 05, 2009, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

or, i'm already taking fire from other targets, and the sin just happens to provide the damage to finally pop me. or, in the case of RA, i have a lame team that lost the match right off the bat. being able to score kills on something doesn't prove much, simply because GW is not a 1v1 game.

your quote basically proves my point. you can play the game in the "here and now", but cannot (or unwilling) anticipate what will happen next. the typical assassin build simply does not have the room to fit in meaningful utility, and in many ways, not reward those who have this ability, at least not in the same way as a warrior or ranger can. you've mentioned that you can bring more utility on assassin builds, and you are right. however, you'll be sacrificing too much damage. not to mention, a lot of utility skills don't work all that well on assassins to begin with. doing so will gimp your build in both fronts.

not true. let's see you roll face on a monk, or a 22DPS cripshot ranger (or any ranger builds for that matter). you'll never get the same results as you would with a sin. it's much easier to just mash buttons on an assassin than almost any other profession, and that's irrefutable.

Again, the first part is situational, and from how you make it sound, the sin is the weakest player and wouldn't have been able to kill you regardless, and simply managed to show up to be part of the "team".

Name some common melee utility a sin can't run too please. I can't even think of one. However, I never said I didn't agree that you would lose some damage. Sure you will. So does every other melee class. Utility>Damage, and I know you know that.

Last but not least, I feel like you're almost only referencing meta builds for sins, and honestly, all meta builds are easy to play. For any class. Very VERY few break that mold. Cripslash, Cripshot, WoH, MB and so on.. I really don't feel as though you could even name a build that's "hard" to play outside of interrupting builds.. and I'm talking non-ranger interrupts, which you could monkey spam and get similar results (and no, I'm not calling rangers "bad" or easy, just not as hard as people make them sound).

moriz · Oct 05, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

you can roll as many utility on your sin as you wish. whether it is beneficial to do so is questionable. most of the KD skills will automatically work better on a warrior. most of the removals (enchant, condition, hex, etc) work better on real casters or rangers. and like i said, the assassin still have to worry about the combo, especially since it will take up most of the skillbar.

just about every build you've listed are harder to play than the typical assassin, though by no means hard in of themselves. i suppose you can make yourself a unique snowflake assassin build based on some obscure skills and claim it is harder. your choice if you want to hamstring yourself. not to mention, there's a difference between playing a cripshot, and playing a cripshot well. the former is often not a threat. the latter can be gamebreakingly powerful. for assassins, there is too the difference between merely playing one, and playing one well. the major difference here, is that the former is typically effective, and the latter is not THAT much better.

Bobby2 · Oct 05, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

oh im like 3-0 or something vs you in ra btw

Whatever pride you gain from beating teams without healers, is yours to keep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

-Not all assassin players or meta bars feature a shadowstep, plus, the most powerful builds of all time featuring a shadowstep (that were nerfed) were NON-assassin primaries. AoD Shock Sin and Burst SP say hi. TBH, current WC isn't too far off, either. If you don't run a shadow step, you're better off rolling another class altogether since the downsides of playing a footsie sin far outweigh the benefits.
-Warriors have MUCH higher damage than assassins (as to most dervish builds) in both pressure and spiking. Pressure, yes; spiking - wtfruthinking. Sins have to devote nearly their whole skillbar to come close, and even then, one shield bash or prot can throw the whole combo out the window. Just because counters exist doesn't mean shit ain't broken.
-Your last "point" is an opinion, and a poor one at that. IF I feel like playing assassin, I play as aggressively as I would my warrior and to near-effect. I conclude you don't play very aggressively with your Warrior, then.

Magikarp · Oct 05, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you can roll as many utility on your sin as you wish. whether it is beneficial to do so is questionable. most of the KD skills will automatically work better on a warrior. most of the removals (enchant, condition, hex, etc) work better on real casters or rangers. and like i said, the assassin still have to worry about the combo, especially since it will take up most of the skillbar.

just about every build you've listed are harder to play than the typical assassin, though by no means hard in of themselves. i suppose you can make yourself a unique snowflake assassin build based on some obscure skills and claim it is harder. your choice if you want to hamstring yourself. not to mention, there's a difference between playing a cripshot, and playing a cripshot well. the former is often not a threat. the latter can be gamebreakingly powerful. for assassins, there is too the difference between merely playing one, and playing one well. the major difference here, is that the former is typically effective, and the latter is not THAT much better.

There. Boil it down to that. Opinion. A good, really good sin is just like a good warrior (or derv). He/she's frustratingly annoying, destructive, and effective.

Again, KD's are longer on warriors, which is better in nearly every way, but.. KD's are conditional for a lot of sin bars, which could have a lot of perks as well.

Bull's is Bull's. Shock is Shock. Power Spike is Power Spike. Etc. You also don't have to gimp yourself because you don't play meta or mindless/cookie builds. I could list what I mean or even build examples, but I'll leave it at that.

X Cytherea X · Oct 06, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

utility is nice, but it's better to play towards the class' strength - big domage. i typically run 1-2 utility slots + res, then have the rest of the bar for killing (although these often have some built-in utility too).

sometimes it is necessary to be more single-minded in order to excel at something. a ranger or mesmer could do a whole bunch of things at once, but in the end they are just little pawns waiting for the real men to do the real job which is to kill shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

most of the removals (enchant, condition, hex, etc) work better on real casters or rangers.

true, but bringing them on a sin ensures that the team you get on will have both that functionality coupled with the big domage of the rest of your bar. my empathic sin bar for example. if i were R/E/Me instead, sure i could use empathic more seamlessly, but the rest of the team might not have the damage to win the game.

Magikarp · Oct 06, 2009, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

utility is nice, but it's better to play towards the class' strength - big domage. i typically run 1-2 utility slots + res, then have the rest of the bar for killing (although these often have some built-in utility too).

sometimes it is necessary to be more single-minded in order to excel at something. a ranger or mesmer could do a whole bunch of things at once, but in the end they are just little pawns waiting for the real men to do the real job which is to kill shit.

true, but bringing them on a sin ensures that the team you get on will have both that functionality coupled with the big domage of the rest of your bar. my empathic sin bar for example. if i were R/E/Me instead, sure i could use empathic more seamlessly, but the rest of the team might not have the damage to win the game.

It's this sort of thing that makes up a big part of why people don't take sins seriously.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 06, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

It's this sort of thing that makes up a big part of why people don't take sins seriously.

What are you talking about?

Magikarp · Oct 06, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

What are you talking about?

Cytherea just generally fills a stereotype that's found in all gaming communities and it makes me a sad panda.

urania · Oct 06, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

i think he brings "stereotype" to a whole new level. or is even beyond it.

esp after this random-whisp-of-the-year outburst.

Krill · Oct 06, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

^ lol. Messages like that keep me coming back to the randumb arenas.

Strange thing about sins, the more you think about what you're doing the worse you play. I'm not kidding, the more I thought about what I was doing on a palm sin during the teaseway meta or playing an SA sin in TA the worse the outcome became. You know you've got quality builds when you can macro the combos and talk on the phone or msn while playing.

There has of course been sin splits and byob sin builds forever but that's not at all what Cytherea and others are debating, entirely different play style that requires knowledge and skill beyond what's on your bar.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 06, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

Cytherea just generally fills a stereotype that's found in all gaming communities and it makes me a sad panda.

Yeah, ok. We agree then. I just thought your comment was related to the text you quoted, in which case I'd have to arrest you. More specifically the part about taking utility(on a sin in ra). Disregarding the rest of his bar, the one skill I really like is empathic removal. If you can fit that skill on a sin you've come a long way IMO.

Incidentally, though, I had the great honor

of being teamed up with Cytherea in ra the other day. We actually got to 9 wins before the monk had to go do his homework or something.

X Cytherea X · Oct 06, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

lol @ karla's screenshot, see what i said the whisper... case in point.

@Sankt: didnt we get to 10? i dont remember (was kinda wasted)... anyway it must have been awesome merely being in my presence.

kedde · Oct 07, 2009, 07:59 AM // 07:59

The point is you have no case.

Akaraxle · Oct 07, 2009, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Sins are a pile of useless crap save for farming.

pah01 · Oct 12, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

That cytherea guy is about as competent as the average arenanet amployee is at understanding what things are good for the game and what isn't.

Sadly this is an indication of how bad arenanet are rather than cytherea being good.