Curse

moriz · Oct 04, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Wasn't really a demand for a buff, was just a random SFnerf idea that, i tought, was much more interesting than the actual SF.

That and I wanted to know how assas were doing in PvP.

just make SF turn the character into shiro tagachi with a nice melee boost. aka, turn it into an actual form, and not an enchantment.

as for how assassins are doing in pvp: they are restricted in low-end arenas, where they belong.

Steps_Descending · Oct 04, 2009, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

they are restricted in low-end arenas, where they belong.

Ironic that the class made for spiking is restricted to the arenas where team aren't (generally speaking) organized enough to spike.

FoxBat · Oct 04, 2009, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Ironic that the class made for spiking is restricted to the arenas where team aren't (generally speaking) organized enough to spike.

No, it's not. Sin's are master solo spikers. Although shadow prison and backbraker have been good enough in team play, most of the class's life and viable "spike" builds have been about catching someone either by themselves or without a healer around, killing quickly before help can arrive, and getting out. Some byob guilds still manage top 200 with these tactics in gvg, and they have obvious applications in the low end arenas.

Keyspa · Oct 04, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Sins will always be useless in good pvp vs rangers or mesmers, because 75% block and rupt shots totally destroys a sin..

X Cytherea X · Oct 04, 2009, 11:48 AM // 11:48

mesmers are food to good sins. lightning reflexes are teh gheyness tho.

Magikarp · Oct 04, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Nah man it takes skill to play sin. So much skill.

1. Are you blind or have similar hexes -> do not attack
2. Is your target heavily protted or in defensive stance -> do not attack
3. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, attack anyway.

Trolls still seemingly have no concept of the class after 5+ years. I lol'ed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

After hearing a random suggestion to change SF in PvE that looked like that:

Would that kind of enchantment completely break sins in PvP?

And are sins even used in PvP outside of ab (if you consider that PvP)? I'm too far from my comp to check observer.

To the OP, I really really like the idea of that skill change. Sins are still used in every pvp aspect, just sometimes needing a more specialized team.

To be able to move/attack fast is what this class is about, and as long as the recharges etc are balanced, I think that would be a great change for SF. It would take out your attack lag and give your enemy a huge surprise. Maybe it should feature something like "all of your non-assassin skills are disabled for X seconds.".

What I really like is that the skill would still be basically daggers/assassin only.

Cool idea.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 04, 2009, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyspa

Sins will always be useless in good pvp vs rangers or mesmers, because 75% block and rupt shots totally destroys a sin..

Myah.. only that sins now have 1/4 sec activation skills making them pretty much uninterruptable. Incidentally they also have access to the best stance removal in the game, namely wild strike - quick recharge, cheap, always available, no drawback.

If you want sins to see more gameplay just petition anet to make more skills 1/4 sec activation. Then we can all be narutos!

No seriously, please don't buff sins. Make sins pve only rather.

ogre_jd · Oct 04, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Myah.. only that sins now have 1/4 sec activation skills making them pretty much uninterruptable. Incidentally they also have access to the best stance removal in the game, namely wild strike - quick recharge, cheap, always available, no drawback.

And, of course, Golden Fox Strike for an unblockable Lead if the Mesmer doesn't remember to remove our Enchantments - and if we're facing a Ranger, we almost certainly will have Assassin's Remedy up, at least, probably Critical Defenses as well. 'Course, I don't PvP, so maybe PvP Assassins do other things...

Krill · Oct 04, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

To be able to move/attack fast is what this class is about, and as long as the recharges etc are balanced, I think that would be a great change for SF.

So it may as well read for X seconds, positioning and kiting is absolutely pointless. Anyone who actually thinks this is a good idea is either not thinking about how it would actually play (super AoD) or hopelessly retarded. Not trying to be overly critical of the OP, it's fun to think of new skills but when people talk about power creep here's what it is. I wouldn't care but I get the feeling anet actually listens to the hoards of PvE players that want skills like this.

Reverend Dr · Oct 04, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

Trolls still seemingly have no concept of the class after 5+ years. I lol'ed.

3.5 = 5+

With that math it isn't too hard to understand how amazing, balanced, and skillful is the assassins class.

Ghost Dog · Oct 04, 2009, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

Trolls still seemingly have no concept of the class after 5+ years. I lol'ed.

Ah yes that must be it.

God_Hand · Oct 04, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

3.5 = 5+

With that math it isn't too hard to understand how amazing, balanced, and skillful is the assassins class.

Wow... I'm... I'm starting to see it too! It's incredible!

On Topic: The Shadow Form suggestion is horrible. It would be the ultimate anti-kite skill. R/A's with Expertise + This + Lightning Reflexes just spamming Lead Attacks for mass pressure does not sound good or even fun for either side. Or...

Apply Poison, This Suggestion, Tab, Jagged, Tab, Jagged, Tab, Jagged, Tab, Jagged repeat ad nauseam.

Entire parties would be poisoned + bleeding most of the time.

So no. Gonna have to pass on this one.

X Cytherea X · Oct 05, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Nah man it takes skill to play sin. So much skill.

1. Are you blind or have similar hexes -> do not attack
2. Is your target heavily protted or in defensive stance -> do not attack
3. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, attack anyway.

lol all melee are like this^. dervs just need to enchant sometimes and warrs just have to autoattack sometimes. but both can press buttons in any order and still get something. SO SKILLFUL.

Made In Ascalon · Oct 05, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

mesmers are food to good sins. lightning reflexes are teh gheyness tho.

"hurr durr I play in RA and beat mesmers in monkless teams."

X Cytherea X · Oct 05, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

if you watched my awesome videos you'd see many of the mesmers i pwnd had monks with them.

Steps_Descending · Oct 05, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

So it may as well read for X seconds, positioning and kiting is absolutely pointless. Anyone who actually thinks this is a good idea is either not thinking about how it would actually play (super AoD) or hopelessly retarded. Not trying to be overly critical of the OP, it's fun to think of new skills but when people talk about power creep here's what it is. I wouldn't care but I get the feeling anet actually listens to the hoards of PvE players that want skills like this.

To krill and God Hand:

No offense taken, as I said it's just an idea I tought would be at least more interesting then the current Shadow Form (which doesn't mean anything about powerlevel). Beside I doubt ANet would have the gut of facing the PvE crowd if they'd make the ultimate defensive skill into a pure offensive version, and Sf isn't a problem in PvP.

Still, it does fit in the assassin (original) philosophy. Get in quick, hurt as much as you can and get out just as quickly. And you'd be trading your elite for something like 5 sec of complete mobility every say... 30 sec or more if you compensate for cd reducing stances. And makign a stance would make it harder to counter but also forbid the use of IAS and Half recharge mod and enchanting mod.

To god hand specifically, with 5 sec IK dont think that kind of pressure coule really be maintainable (tought it WOULD happen and would last 15 sec... on a 30 sec) It would really need a limit on the number of SStep, but I still doubt it would be that game breaking (or the metagame is more fragile than I think).

But those limitations kinda defeats of using your elite for a 2-3 shot one way shadow step with no advantages...

God_Hand · Oct 05, 2009, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

To god hand specifically, with 5 sec IK dont think that kind of pressure coule really be maintainable (tought it WOULD happen and would last 15 sec... on a 30 sec) It would really need a limit on the number of SStep, but I still doubt it would be that game breaking (or the metagame is more fragile than I think).

But those limitations kinda defeats of using your elite for a 2-3 shot one way shadow step with no advantages...

The metagame is so fragile it shatters with just about every update... and a new metagame is born.

Easy solution to stop Expertise R/A's: Put it in Critical Strikes.

No advantages? The advantage is that as long as the enchantment lasts, you can step (using Jagged Strike) to any opponent in your cast radius, followed by bleeding, and you can do this over and over again with only a one second cooldown on Jagged. A limit to the amount of shadowsteps would be good.

With the two limitations I listed, I could get behind this, even in PvP.

God_Hand · Oct 05, 2009, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

if you watched my awesome videos you'd see many of the mesmers i pwnd had monks with them.

Are you even trying anymore?

Magikarp · Oct 05, 2009, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

So it may as well read for X seconds, positioning and kiting is absolutely pointless. Anyone who actually thinks this is a good idea is either not thinking about how it would actually play (super AoD) or hopelessly retarded. Not trying to be overly critical of the OP, it's fun to think of new skills but when people talk about power creep here's what it is. I wouldn't care but I get the feeling anet actually listens to the hoards of PvE players that want skills like this.

If the skill cost enough energy and has a decent recharge, then I see it as having a good chance at being balanced. AoD doesn't disable things AND lets you escape. You could say: Shadow Form- 10e 45r "all of your non-assassin skills and non-attack skills are disabled for 10..5 seconds. When you use a lead attack, you shadow step to target foe". Or something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

The metagame is so fragile it shatters with just about every update... and a new metagame is born.

Easy solution to stop Expertise R/A's: Put it in Critical Strikes.

No advantages? The advantage is that as long as the enchantment lasts, you can step (using Jagged Strike) to any opponent in your cast radius, followed by bleeding, and you can do this over and over again with only a one second cooldown on Jagged. A limit to the amount of shadowsteps would be good.

With the two limitations I listed, I could get behind this, even in PvP.

I agree, but you could also make it end on attack use and give it a high recharge, or just make it disable other skills etc. I like the idea of making it sin only though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

3.5 = 5+

With that math it isn't too hard to understand how amazing, balanced, and skillful is the assassins class.

Guild Wars Beta release date: Nov 6 2004. Or did you just start playing after Factions? What year is it? Almost 2010? BTW, Assassins have been in nearly every MMO ever. EVER. If ANY of you don't understand what they do or were designed to do, please.. please get a dictionary, a television, or out of your Lazy Boy.

I've been playing Aion since release, and I play Assassin and Gladiator, and guess what my Assassin can do... MOVE I have sprinting skills, a skill that sends me to the back of my target right away, and even a skill to go totally invisible. I also have toilet paper armor.. Just like our sins.

Because people have a hard time understanding that awareness and team coordination have far more to do with the game than positioning, they get rolled, and more importantly, mad. If people put half as much time into learning how to watch casting radius, keeping an eye on priority targets (instead of MONK MONK MONK or 3,2,1.. SPIKE!!) they wouldn't feel half as stupid when some squishy over-extends into your own territory and balls you up.

Most importantly, Anet doesn't care, and especially speaking when it comes to this forum. If the OP thinks it's cool and wants to know how we feel, what matter does it make if people enjoy the sound of something new? Or creative?

And finally...

For God's sake, please shut up Cytherea.

moriz · Oct 05, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

assassins have been in the game since april '06, or whenever factions came out. that makes it 3.5 years. it doesn't matter how many games the assassin appeared in, since the GW assassin is somewhat different from other games.

btw, the things you've listed... every other profession have to watch for the same things. it's just that you hardly need to do anything else with assassins, where as other professions still have the execution element. the assassin removes that almost entirely.