Curse

jaximus · Nov 09, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

How did this turn from dealing with daze to qchopping bsurge anyway?

this was on the discussion of superraptors suggestion to not bring condi removal on a monk in ra. i dont support that opinion because i myself bring condi removal however i do use it very sparingly.

Another Child · Nov 09, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

usually within the first match or two you can tell if your warrior is worth his salt or not

If your definition of 'worth his salt' is 'able to reliably dchop bsurge', I'd think you'd know as soon as you saw his name. How many warriors do you meet in RA who can do that really?

jaximus · Nov 09, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

'worth his salt'

with this im talking the main techniques used by good warriors. things such as target swapping when theres prots, q stepping to gain a position advantage, calling skills they d chop, linebacking when your team is taking pressure, pushing hard when your team is not under pressure, swapping shields at the start of the match when you see what youre up against, frenzy cancelling, pushing on dazed targets, calling low targets, pinging incoming backfires/diversions/painful hexes. maybe you wont be able to tell right away, but the other team notices. when you see your war being the only person taking damage thats prolly cuz their monk is screaming to kill them.

Another Child · Nov 09, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

with this im talking the main techniques used by good warriors. things such as target swapping when theres prots, q stepping to gain a position advantage, calling skills they d chop, linebacking when your team is taking pressure, pushing hard when your team is not under pressure, swapping shields at the start of the match when you see what youre up against, frenzy cancelling, pushing on dazed targets, calling low targets, pinging incoming backfires/diversions/painful hexes. maybe you wont be able to tell right away, but the other team notices. when you see your war being the only person taking damage thats prolly cuz their monk is screaming to kill them.

Sorry I was referring more to this, I should have quoted the whole thing:

Quote:

if he is, then he/she will make it their goal to make the b surge their bitch. once they do you dont have to worry about cleaning the blind and its gg.

Ah never mind I see what you were saying. Not always gonna happen right away, but will happen eventually, and then you don't need to worry anymore.

kosh · Nov 09, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

back to HA wherever u come from, just to let you know, no one is dumb enough to spam when there versing a diversion mes.

you know what a kd does? it disables them from doing shit all, kd the blinder and he cant do anything for 3 seconds, knocklock him, how is he going to blind you then?

your willing to sacrifice 2 skills slots for mending touch [draw + mend] 10 energy to remove one condition?, draw 3 times and ur down 1/3 of ur energy

if you want to play remove conditions of your allies, play pnh, but guaranteed you will get rolled by pure dmg

the idea is too keep your team mates alive which is keeping red bars up

good job you just helped me prove my point

ra is srs bsns

thank god.. jaximus atleast a person who understands

i dont even know wher to begin, your clearly lack some understanding of game mechanics or what so ever.

con are bad. yes, i know your narrow minded pve mind find it hard to believe,
but removing con on time as just as important as removing a hex on time. your job as a monk is not only the keep your team up (note i didnt say push red bars up, thats again pve conept, prot, healing in time, not spamming woh, thats being a monk), but also to give your teams the break they need to score kills. a good war wont have any heal,con,hex removal on his bar.

his bar is dedicated to dmg/ias/ims/kd/crip or what ever else.
i know that part of my job is to clean up the team.

clearly for you all those concepts of how team works work are lacking.

thank god u never monked for me while ra.

Bobby2 · Nov 09, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

You're counting on predicting the ele. Sure some are pretty predictable but I bet you miss more than you hit.

Well I DID admit it was pretty hard. But how many decent Blind bitches are there in RA, really? 90% of them spam on recharge.

God_Hand · Nov 09, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

seriously you dont even need any condition removal in ra

Poison, Disease, Bleeding, Burning, Cripple, and Deep Wound all say hello.

You're a monk. Removing conditions is your job.

As for the topic of daze: Be a man, use Ant Sig.

superraptors · Nov 09, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

i dont even know wher to begin, your clearly lack some understanding of game mechanics or what so ever.

con are bad. yes, i know your narrow minded pve mind find it hard to believe,
but removing con on time as just as important as removing a hex on time. your job as a monk is not only the keep your team up (note i didnt say push red bars up, thats again pve conept, prot, healing in time, not spamming woh, thats being a monk), but also to give your teams the break they need to score kills. a good war wont have any heal,con,hex removal on his bar.

his bar is dedicated to dmg/ias/ims/kd/crip or what ever else.
i know that part of my job is to clean up the team.

clearly for you all those concepts of how team works work are lacking.

thank god u never monked for me while ra.

any good war can d chop blind on recharge or even shock it

and the real condition problem really for wars unable to pressure is weakness so thats only worth considering cond removal

Reverend Dr · Nov 10, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

any good war can d chop blind on recharge or even shock it

If we are going to go for a skill argument: It takes less skill as an ele to not cast on recharge, or to fake cast.

You know what else is cool thing to do, as a monk watch the ele and start casting dismiss when they cast their blind.

Lets see no condition removal, check. No guardian, check. I guess monk skill is all about the redbar eh?

valence · Nov 10, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

take dual condi removal, draw + mtouch for example.

mtouch is key if daze is common in ra, it's the only tool with a stance that can reliable (reliable saying 75%) remove daze. another less reliable thing to do, is cast mtouch outside stance / guardian and hope you get a fast cast, most rangers wont get the 3/4 if its a fast cast but nrg intensive. best thing is just kite bha, eating bha while not snared is your own fault, other sources of daze aren't that long besides bhaze from sin, in which case you gonna stance right away anyway and kite like hell.

if you have a ranger with mtouch, ping your daze like mad in team chat and hope he notices it. meanwhile walk to him, decreasing time needed to remove it from you.

not many answers besides that, deal with it basically and spam pspirit between attacks for red bar.

not taking condi removal is a joke, and no you cannot dchop blind on reaction. getting blinds dchopped is more a poor play from the ele then an actual good play from the war.

kedde · Nov 10, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

If on a good ping you can even have time to cancel a cast if you have the warrior targeted when Dchop pops up.
Really, relying on dchop to win matches or not to lose them is being pretentious at best, regardless of how good it is.

Killed u man · Nov 10, 2009, 01:21 PM // 13:21

And then we haven't even started on the fact that you have to wait out the blinds as a warrior. First, you to spend ATLEAST 30 seconds building (Blind), even if you manage to shock Bsurge a couple of times, he still should only give you 1 or 2 hits not under blind. (If he didn't get 40/40 on the first cast)

And then there is the 40/40 set. The only reliable way of dchopping something is shock follow with. If the bsurge is bad, he'll get up cast bsurge and get it dchopped. If he's not, he won't, and the blind chain can begin again.

So you're pretty much hoping for either:

-A bad bsurge who casts bsurge straight after getting shocked
-A small window of no blinds (When U get some condi removal) and a lucky dchop on bsurge.
-A lucky dchop through blind.

Either way, a bsurge is not the warriors problem to deal with, it's the Monk.

As a warrior, I usually build on other shit, unload on monks and eveyr chop I get goes to the Bsurge. (To have a small chance of getting bsurge)

Kydd · Nov 10, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I like to bring draw conditions without mend touch.
I also like to bring that skill with a picture of a baby on it.

Codex Guru · Nov 10, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Lol I think superraptors is a troll who is dumb enough to think "the idea is to keep redbars up"

In case you're serious superraptor you're right and wrong depending on what arena. Its actually ironic you say "go back to HA" because HA is where you can ignore blind, RA is not. You can go without spotless mind in RA if your team is smart enough not to attack through punish but conditions is a real pain. If you don't draw cripple or blind will ruin your team's dmg 100%.

Listen to Killed u man superraptor, if your war is blind he can't charge adrenal and dchop is like rolling the lottery vs good bsurge. Even if you running primal with dchop, agonizing and shock its not enough in a 4 man arena. Not ripping blind works in an 8 man because you're saving your 5e for a 150HP heal but with 8 men you last way longer than 4 man, long enough for warrior to build while in 4 man if you don't rip blind fast GG.

Bring draw in RA or suck.

jaximus · Nov 10, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

a warrior can do many things to beat a b surge. youre forgetting a thing called air attunement, shock it, d-chop it, make him cancel it by running up to him, etc. youre team prolly has enchant hate of some sort, prolly some other rupts, another melee, etc. if you play pressure war, which you SHOULD be doing in a 4v4 setting forcing active play from the other team, you can easily drain the energy pool and force kills. eventually you will wear them down IF you play right, once the energy pool dwindles, the b surge will come less and less and later, and once it does its over.

@ codex guru, if your war really lets blind affect him that much to the point where you feel you NEED draw in order for your team to win, you should realize that that war isnt very good and that by taking the b surge out of the game in exchange for your poor warrior is a win for your team.

back on topic though, i played a curse bitch nec in ra yesterday with foul feast and plague sig. i couldnt even count the number of times my monk ate stunning strike and bha and DIDNT ping it. i dunno if he knew id just feast it right away or what, but i made sure i pinged foul at the start of the match and instantly after the ranger pinged his m touch. we ended up with a pretty nice streak but im not sure if it was cuz our team was balanced (lyssa dags derv, apply magebane, me on cursebitch, and a mo/a) or if it was because of foul feast.

Codex Guru · Nov 10, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

a warrior can do many things to beat a b surge. youre forgetting a thing called air attunement, shock it, d-chop it, make him cancel it by running up to him, etc. youre team prolly has enchant hate of some sort, prolly some other rupts, another melee, etc. if you play pressure war, which you SHOULD be doing in a 4v4 setting forcing active play from the other team, you can easily drain the energy pool and force kills. eventually you will wear them down IF you play right, once the energy pool dwindles, the b surge will come less and less and later, and once it does its over.

@ codex guru, if your war really lets blind affect him that much to the point where you feel you NEED draw in order for your team to win, you should realize that that war isnt very good and that by taking the b surge out of the game in exchange for your poor warrior is a win for your team.

The fact is more players means more monks (again this is fact not opinion) means easier chance to catch spikes and generally longer living. Pressure is always superior to spike that's just the way GW is set up but that doesn't change the need to rip blind in a 4v4 arena. Pressure takes time to work while assassins and dervishes can launch their combo right away. This is obvious to anyone who plays RA a lot and people say "don't play wars here" not because there's any problem with wars but because people think like you and think a monk doesn't need draw with an incredible primal. Well what's the chance you get an incredible primal (as opposed to an average one) compared with an incredible bsurge?

Absolutely s*** that's what. You can become a good bsurge in a day but become an incredible primal takes GvG experience and weeks if not months.

If we talk skill as mentioned before it takes far less skill to keep a warrior blinded effectively than for a warrior to outplay a bsurge. If a far less skilled player can shut down a far more skilled player you have a problem especially since after syncfix RA is 2/4 or 3/4 good players carrying you to glads. If that primal is your only skilled player and a mediocre player can drop his effectiveness by half or more, well GG.

If you think this is all BS I ask you to count the amount of time average RA fight lasts then see how much adrenal a war can build in that time blinded. I guarantee you it won't be enough for more than 1-2 dchops. It's also less than the duration of 10 blinds (conservative, with air attune up even 1 time and res/highe set he could get 20-30 blinds a match).

Bobby2 · Nov 10, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by valence

not taking condi removal is a joke, and no you cannot dchop blind on reaction. getting blinds dchopped is more a poor play from the ele then an actual good play from the war.

Introduce me to this mystical person who actually uses DChop on reaction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The only reliable way of dchopping something is shock follow with.

Just qchopping can't be called reliable under any circumstances - supposing the opposition is skilled. What happens in RA when you Shock the Surge, the ele *panics* - and thus becomes easier to predict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codex Guru

incredible primal

lol

obsidian ectoplasm · Nov 10, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

40% daze

and just spam patient spirit,

with prot staff

or be cool like me and run contemplation of purity

jaximus · Nov 10, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codex Guru

incredible primal

incredible primal, good joke. primal is for bad warriors that dont know how to micro well. (ask mako how i feel about primal) play evis where you can play pressure and still spike hard enough to get kills. primal needs to beat on people for too long so b surge hurts you much more than it hurts the evis bar which needs a much smaller window to deal lethal damage. seeing as you dont seem terrible and demonstrate at least some understanding how to play ill give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you intentionally said primal because it is more easily shut down by b surge and hoped noone would suggest evis.

as for taking forever to build adrenaline, youre not doing doing it right. start the match on a furious spear and you should be nearly charged before you get hit with the first b surge. by the time you are in melee range your team should have begun ranged damage/etc and you can push the ele, ping the b surge!, then damage will come its way, shock, drop your evis in its face, *panic ensues* cue up the q chop, rinse repeat.

as for people suggesting the daze rune, so id assume you drop a vitae for it, and the daze on the shield you think that losing 10v xxx for the duration of a match is better than the bonus armor and hps? do you then run all survivor insigs to make up for the lost health? do you feel this is better than the arguably OP disciples insigs?

superraptors · Nov 10, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

bsurge is annoying for sure but building adrenaline in 30 seconds is pure failure, especially if your playing an axe warrior, why would u play axe in ra when hammer is obviously superior and faster at building adrenaline.

considering you got more then 1 physical on the team, its stupid for an ele to just train one target because any good warrior[hammer] can solo a monk even if his ally is blinded 24/7
a good bsurge would blind when a warrior is most likely to unleash a kd / spike
shutting 1 warrior down is bad when you can shut down the whole team if your doing it right

anyways since this is daze, i just kite, vigoros / patient when needed