Curse

~ Dan ~ · Oct 07, 2009, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Hehe either that, or people leave before the match starts thinking they have 4x DPS.

But DnD.. that's an idea..

howlinghobo · Nov 02, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Biggest gripe with it is that it has no damage mitigation on allies at all. And while you are not prone to shutdown by diversion, there are a myriad of other caster shut downs, and these will likely hurt you more than other monks because you need cast to keep them alive. Its undeniable that your survavability is very good, but as you noticed you cant outmonk a monk, and things like a single removal of a condition/hex can win the game for you, not always, but I think its frequent enough that monks are currently irreplaceable even in the casual ra format.

Lexi · Nov 03, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I just got out of RA and was told derv/mez healers are dumb and old... i didnt think it was old but okay...

Since this is already started, ill post the build i ran and see what you all say. Now in PvE this build rocks face. But RA not so much. I always get ganged up on and dont stand a chance. Luckily, it takes at least 2 of something to get me down, but still. Once i die people are mean and say im useless...so maybe i can improve with all your help!

echo (elite)
imbue health
signet of pious light
pious concentration
armor of sanctity
vital boon
mystic regeneration
zealous renewal (i actually havent used this too much, suppose to help energy manage, but i havent needed it.)

My energy is at 64 with 3 bar regen (it would be 4, im working on getting a new focus item that doesnt knock away a regen)

I diff agree with nine... people confuse us too much with monks.... anyways... any help is much loved!!

Lexi · Nov 03, 2009, 07:13 AM // 07:13

i also realize i may not just be good at running this build yet. I've only had the build a few days and just tried it today in RA. But have done well in PvE.

It really is unforgiving if ran improperly.... maybe more practice! Advice welcomed

howlinghobo · Nov 05, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

You're not good, you need to make a pvp character to stop using that focus. + Energy foci/weapons are best on alternate weapon sets, you switch to them when you need the energy to cast YOUR VERY NEXT SPELL and never any other time. Switch back asap after the cast. The original had shield of force, I think that helps a lot with survivability if you can use it to block disables such as knockdowns.

obsidian ectoplasm · Nov 05, 2009, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by howlinghobo

You're not good, you need to make a pvp character to stop using that focus. + Energy foci/weapons are best on alternate weapon sets, you switch to them when you need the energy to cast YOUR VERY NEXT SPELL and never any other time. Switch back asap after the cast. The original had shield of force, I think that helps a lot with survivability if you can use it to block disables such as knockdowns.

this is true

IninefingersI · Nov 05, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

IMO, Shield of Force is indespensible in RA. I frequently Echo that instead of Imbue. It stops hammer warriors and breaks sin chains quite easily, and God knows how many of those are in RA.

As far as weaponsets, I use 2 sets. Primary set is a +10e +5e +5e^50 +30h staff. And a high energy set, +30e-2. Never stay on your high energy set any longer than absolutely necessary. Never use a +20% enchant mod on a D/Me.

I doesn't matter how well you do or how much you win, if you run a derv healer, especially a D/Me, you are going to have to deal with people flapping their lips at you. I have over 4000 Glad from running one in RA, and I am constantly trolled and talked trash to. Its like water off a duck's back. And yes, its VERY unforgiving of mistakes.

Derv healers and monks both have their strengths and weaknesses. I don't mitigate any damage from my team like monks can. I can, however, burst heal 906 health over 3 targets in 1-1/2 seconds and sustain an average of around 150 per second indefinately. I don't know of any monks that can match the redbar numbers of a derv.

Will Derv healing ever replace monking? Not gonna happen.

Are Derv healers a formidable opponent to a monk? Without a doubt.

Royale · Nov 24, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

The original derv healer was created in TA pretty soon after Nightfall's inception. The big advantage of this guy was that it was incredibly difficult to kill without enchant removal and could stand up to "Fear Me!" spam better than monks of the time. Its effectiveness lied in the fact that its fellow team mates were usually high-armor targets (like warriors and rangers), with self heals of their own, to help mop up any damage that couldn't be taken care of by the derv.

Here was the build:

http://gwshack.us/83d22

W/D - Steady Stance, Desperation Blow, Drunken Blow, Wild Blow, "Fear Me!", "Shield's Up!", Healing Signet, Resurrection Signet

W/D - Steady Stance, Desperation Blow, Drunken Blow, "Watch Yourself!", "Fear Me!", "Shield's Up!", Healing Signet, Resurrection Signet

R/Mo - Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Concussion Shot, Prepared Shot, Apply Poison, Natural Stride, Purge Signet, Resurrection Signet

D/Mo - Imbue Health, Signet of Pious Light, Draw Conditions, Pious Renewal, Mirage Cloak, Mystic Regeneration, Vital Boon, Pious Concentration

There are a few skills here that were swapped out for substitutes, depending on the situation, but this was the basic build at the time. There was plenty of passive defense available in order to take some of the pressure off the derv.

Using this derv as a healer when your team was full of soft armor targets like mesmers and eles wasn't the greatest idea, since large amounts of consistent damage on a 60AL target tended to outdamage the derv's healing output (couldn't heal fast enough).

IninefingersI · Nov 24, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I don't think anyone can be credited for making the derv healer or any derv healer build can be called the original.

A number of people had a light bulb come on when the saw the +300 Imbue and started playing with the idea the day Nightfall was released. It has been trial and error since then, with it being homogenized down to a hand-full that can be successful, and a bunch more that aren't.

I think the benchmarks for derv healing are:
1. Nightfall release. Dozens of derv healers by noon the 1st day.
2. EoTN release and Shield of Force giving a huge survivability advantage against any melee and bows.
3. The insanly stupid Armor of Sanctity uber-buff. Which caused an explosion of over-powered derv healers.
4. The subsequent Armor of Sanctity nerf, which made many of the less hardcore derv healers disappear.

Most of the successes have been in the 4v4 arenas but I did have a friend from Titanium Knights [Ti] tell me that they have been running into people in HA using Derv Healers with a E/N Orders. Don't personally know anything about that, but he said it was pretty effective and I don't know if they were D/Me's, D/Mo's, or a combination of the two.

Royale · Nov 24, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Ok, I'll rephrase myself by saying the Pious Renewal D/Mo posted above was the first widely used (relative term) variant of its type.

IninefingersI · Nov 24, 2009, 08:03 PM // 20:03

What I would like to see with the derv healer, is for someone to finally make a Wind Prayers derv healer that is effective.

Wind prayers has some good stuff in it, but it just doesn't seem to fit together like Earth does. It has some hex removal and Dwayna's Touch/Lyssa's Haste seems like it sould be a strong combo. With 3 enchants, Dwayna's Touch is as strong as Imbue. It heals for 1/2 as much, but cools down twice as fast, and Lyssa's Haste gives you a good speed buff for the touch heal along with some e-management.

I just seem to be too set in my ways and reliant on my Earth stuff to bother with trying to make it work.

Royale · Nov 24, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Dwayna's and Imbue together will burn through your energy pretty quick.

IninefingersI · Nov 24, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

Dwayna's and Imbue together will burn through your energy pretty quick.

Yeah, it would be hungry. The biggest problem I see with wind prayers, is most of the good stuff is spells instead of enchants, which nullifies the Mysticism bonus. I don't think many derv healers properly use the Mysticism bonus anyway, or they wouldn't insist on loading Pious Renewal onto their bar.

Darkkis · Nov 26, 2009, 07:56 AM // 07:56

derv healer doesn't have any counters? Like heavy ench removal or something?

House Silvermoon · Nov 26, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

honestly i dont get y derv healers get so much flack. it is a very different way to play the game and its hardly overpowered.

moriz · Nov 26, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

derv healers draw aggro; that's why they are viable. by the time the typical RA player notices that, yes, that team DOES have a healer, it is usually too late.

IninefingersI · Nov 27, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

derv healers draw aggro; that's why they are viable. by the time the typical RA player notices that, yes, that team DOES have a healer, it is usually too late.

I can't count the times I've gone through an entire match with the other team never realizing someone is healing. I've even had people on my own team ask who is healing after 7 or 8 matches. People just don't pay very good attention in RA.

I actually prefer to get pinged right off the start if I'm playing against melee. The best way to beat a Derv Healer with melee is usually to ignore them because they tend to be very effective tanks.

tealspikes · Nov 28, 2009, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Yea I remember lots of people using those Pious Renewal healers. Wind prayers is strong on offensive bars but really doesn't take advantage of mysticism to make a good healer. In particular, Signet of Pious Light's synergy with Mysticism is what powers the build.

moriz · Nov 28, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

errr, i meant that derv healers draw LESS aggro. oops.

the fact that a derv healer just completely screws up the one-track minds typically found in the average RA player is the reason why they are so good. otherwise, a single dshot just kills the entire build.

healers are good, STEALTH healers are even better.

IninefingersI · Nov 28, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

......a single dshot just kills the entire build.

Pious Concentration ....... Don't leave the beach without it.