Curse

Killed u man · Nov 01, 2010, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Swings both ways.

I really don't see why you'dd want to go radiants on a warrior, though, because the exhaustion stays regardless of your energy pool.

For me personall, I always have a high energy air staff in my inventory for that rare occassion where I need to use Shock a couple of times on recharge (to keep a rezz down when I don't have dchop or smth), but loosing 20 overal armor solely for that off-chance it might actually come to that situation where you have to spam shock seems just too crazy.

deluxe · Nov 01, 2010, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Swings both ways.

I really don't see why you'dd want to go radiants on a warrior, though, because the exhaustion stays regardless of your energy pool.

For me personall, I always have a high energy air staff in my inventory for that rare occassion where I need to use Shock a couple of times on recharge (to keep a rezz down when I don't have dchop or smth), but loosing 20 overal armor solely for that off-chance it might actually come to that situation where you have to spam shock seems just too crazy.

20 Armor really isn't that big of a deal on a warrior. And it takes a while before your enemy finds out you are not wearing sentinels.
What are you going to do when you are exhausted? Swap to your energy staff, then what? What if you want to bulls someone while exhausted?
People are so used to sentinel insigna's, they can't imagine a world without them.

Killed u man · Nov 01, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I find myself running without sents quite alot of time. It's just that I really don't see radiants being all that usefull.

Yeah, when you have a larger energy pool, you'll be able to hit bull's faster after exhausting yourself out. The question is: if you still need to pump bull's after having spammed Shock, what did the intital spamming of shock really achieve?

I mean, I'm not saying radiants aren't better than sent's. As a matter of fact, radiants are the most offensive insignias you could possible run, and if I knew I had a hella-good backline, I'dd run them all the time.

In most formats, this isn't the case, and I'dd rather stick with armor because there is a decent amount of elemental damage (esp in HA) and/or spike builds in PvP.

diabiosx · Nov 01, 2010, 06:13 PM // 18:13

sentinals is pretty awesome in HA, coward spam is more important than shock there. No weakness

sents is pretty bad in GvG, too much weakness. Imo its all up to you and your team. +HP if you die alot, +energy if you dont. Personaly ill go with +hp to be safe and just whip out a high energy set if shock is really needed. Playing safe is always best.

Reverend Dr · Nov 01, 2010, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

You mean HA and GvG? Where more damage can be dealt in a smaller amount of time? Where Survivor and Sentinel runes can actually slow down or decimally increase the likelihood of surviving spikes and/or enormous pressure?

Sentinels is really a poor choice for a 13 str warrior. A common condition renders you without any insignia. Spikes are generally going to have weakness so this insignia isn't going to do anything about spikes. Pressure outside of spiking is still less when placed on a warrior than when placed on casters, and even then that pressure is going to be mopped up by party healing. Unless you are buildwarsing, sentinels is just not a good choice on a 13 str warrior.

Survivors is ok, +hp is never really a bad thing, but it doesn't actually mitigate any damage and we are in a huge +armor meta. Radiant is ok, +energy is never really a bad thing, but it isn't energy management.

That is kind of the choice there +35 hp or +7 energy.

What the +energy does is give you more shocks that you can throw out during a window before getting exhausted out. No, not spamming shock. But when your team starts to make a strong offensive push, having an extra shock can be the difference in scoring a kill and wiping a team.

Sirius Bsns · Nov 01, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Sentinels is really a poor choice for a 13 str warrior. A common condition renders you without any insignia. Spikes are generally going to have weakness so this insignia isn't going to do anything about spikes. Pressure outside of spiking is still less when placed on a warrior than when placed on casters, and even then that pressure is going to be mopped up by party healing. Unless you are buildwarsing, sentinels is just not a good choice on a 13 str warrior.

Survivors is ok, +hp is never really a bad thing, but it doesn't actually mitigate any damage and we are in a huge +armor meta. Radiant is ok, +energy is never really a bad thing, but it isn't energy management.

That is kind of the choice there +35 hp or +7 energy.

What the +energy does is give you more shocks that you can throw out during a window before getting exhausted out. No, not spamming shock. But when your team starts to make a strong offensive push, having an extra shock can be the difference in scoring a kill and wiping a team.

My apologies for never mentioning the major str rune, or even a +1/1 head piece/rune combo if you wanted to retain the 35 heath... and it's w/e you guys wanna do; to each his own. I'd rather mitigate more damage, or have a larger pool of hp to decimally lower the chances of being spiked out than just have one extra potentially-interruped shock that just puts your build to waste. HP and armor are far more feasible in my book. So unless you have some compelling evidence to prove me wrong, I will stand firm in my believe that hp and armor >>> energy and one extra shock. Also, E.Surge mesmers...

Reverend Dr · Nov 02, 2010, 12:24 AM // 00:24

We seem to have a very different understanding of the use of shock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

You should only ever use it if you're on someone and they're casting something like Diversion/Shame, Rodgorts, Apply Poison, Rt Spirits, or if necro just finished FFing and plans to Plague Send it all. You can also Shock monks if they're below 50% health, but more often than not they carry Balanced/Dolyak, so be aware of that. Timing is key, spamming is not. L2Shock better.

While shock does function as an interrupt, it is way more than that. I have predominantly used shock as a means of keeping someone out of position. It synergizes well with a second warrior, while the shocking warrior will have to deal with aftercast, the second warrior is free to wail on a KD'd target. I believe it was Polly that was notorious for using shock as a lead-in whenever spiking targets.

Blowing all of your energy to exhaustion in a short time puts out a lot of extra pressure. Enough to force a pressured team to snap, enough to wipe a split.

I Angra I · Nov 02, 2010, 12:51 AM // 00:51

in gvg, knockdowns on monks/defensive midliners at specific times are the most reliable way of scoring kills out of anything else in the game

having an instantaneous knockdown available whenever you need it (shock) is an amazing asset to have

the more energy you have to use that knockdown, the better

galactic · Nov 02, 2010, 02:08 AM // 02:08

should i bring 14 strength, 13 axe?

**Marty Silverblade** · Nov 02, 2010, 02:14 AM // 02:14

If you want to run Sentinel's, yes. It's also good if you're running Enraging Charge (for Hammer bars, iirc).

Maver1ck87 · Nov 02, 2010, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Listen to the 2 or 3 decent players that gave 1 line answers... run radiants and dont be bad.... to sum them up...

the only thing im gonna add and this is for all the people who say.... Exhuastion dosent matter about how big ur energy pool is, just ur regen.... its NOT about spamming shock on recharge EXCEPT when enemy monks are low... an extra 7 energy + more from air focus MIGHT be enough to push through a kill on a monk.... in RA thats like lol whats the point.... in GvG thats a BIG thing. Radiants give you that reserve pool not to allow you to spam it any more cos u CANT as many people pointed out... but to have some in reserve to push a kill or 2 when they are low and falling back.

Pz

Killed u man · Nov 02, 2010, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maver1ck87

Listen to the 2 or 3 decent players that gave 1 line answers... run radiants and dont be bad.... to sum them up...

the only thing im gonna add and this is for all the people who say.... Exhuastion dosent matter about how big ur energy pool is, just ur regen.... its NOT about spamming shock on recharge EXCEPT when enemy monks are low... an extra 7 energy + more from air focus MIGHT be enough to push through a kill on a monk.... in RA thats like lol whats the point.... in GvG thats a BIG thing. Radiants give you that reserve pool not to allow you to spam it any more cos u CANT as many people pointed out... but to have some in reserve to push a kill or 2 when they are low and falling back.

Pz

The air focus point can be made for Sent's or any insignia aswell. Why wouldn't you be able to run an air offhand when running sent's?

The core of this discussion is:

35 HP <-> 7 Energy <-> 20 Elemental Armor.

7 energy is 1 and a half shock. Is loosing 20 elemental armor worth gaining an extra (maybe 2) shock? You don't even gain the extra Shock, as the exhaustion will stay regardless, you only gain 1 extra "burst" shock maybe once or twice in the match while giving up 20 armor.

There's no definite anwser, but all I know is wherever the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO I go, I have eles spamming shit on me, so I rather have the armor. (I run 14/14 Anyways)

I Angra I · Nov 03, 2010, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

7 energy is 1 and a half shock. Is loosing 20 elemental armor worth gaining an extra (maybe 2) shock? You don't even gain the extra Shock, as the exhaustion will stay regardless, you only gain 1 extra "burst" shock maybe once or twice in the match while giving up 20 armor.)

Yes, it's absolutely worth it to be able to shock more than you normally would in a GvG. That's 1 or 2 more chances to score a kill from a kd'ed monk, which translates to 1 or 2 more chances to start getting chain kills because of it, which translates to 1 or 2 more chances to win the game. Also exhaustion doesn't stay for an entire match. It's not 1 or 2 extra shocks per match, it's closer to 5 or 6 extra shocks per match, depending on how long it goes and how often you're able to start getting energy back while out of combat. So, 5 or 6 extra chances to score kills. That's a pretty huge deal.

Killed u man · Nov 03, 2010, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

Yes, it's absolutely worth it to be able to shock more than you normally would in a GvG. That's 1 or 2 more chances to score a kill from a kd'ed monk, which translates to 1 or 2 more chances to start getting chain kills because of it, which translates to 1 or 2 more chances to win the game. Also exhaustion doesn't stay for an entire match. It's not 1 or 2 extra shocks per match, it's closer to 5 or 6 extra shocks per match, depending on how long it goes and how often you're able to start getting energy back while out of combat. So, 5 or 6 extra chances to score kills. That's a pretty huge deal.

If you wanna talk about GvG anyways:

How often do you face balanced spike? (MoI, fire eles, lightning bolt/chain/shellshock) Quite alot, as a matter of fact.

On top of that, GvG, partially due to the introduction of shell shock and redicilous armor ignoring damage (dom buff), has become a game of "who can spike the other frontline out first".

In a match where big elemtal numbers are getting thrown around, I'dd still rather have Sent's over 7 extra energy. The way I see it: You can't spam Shock if you're dead.

I Angra I · Nov 03, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

That's what shieldsets and good monks are for. You can play defensively all you want, but you're limiting your chances on killing them by a ton, and are only going to end up prolonging your own team's death, rather than winning the game.

Reverend Dr · Nov 03, 2010, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The air focus point can be made for Sent's or any insignia aswell. Why wouldn't you be able to run an air offhand when running sent's?

1) don't run sents at 13 str, unless you are buildwarsing

2) warrior energy is 20(base) +6 (air offhand, w/o req) + 15 (sieze the day) or 41, which is 4 shocks. Either full (minus stonefist) radiants which makes it 48 or speccing 9 str 9 air meeting the offhand req makes it 47. In both cases that is a window of 5 shocks. It isn't about # of shocks over the course of a match, but about the number of shocks available when someone is out of position, a team is pressured, or there is some other opportunity. One more shock when a team or split is about to wipe is a big deal.

(also I'd ignore the 9 str 9 air, while once a legitimate argument, body blow instead of executioners and weakness dropping you out of shield req make it just far less desirable)

Killed u man · Nov 03, 2010, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

That's what shieldsets and good monks are for. You can play defensively all you want, but you're limiting your chances on killing them by a ton, and are only going to end up prolonging your own team's death, rather than winning the game.

Well, where does it end then?

You can use the "You have Monks" for every defensive change to equip or build. Healing Breeze on midline? Nah, you have Monks. Armor insignias on a necro (torments)? Nah, you have Monks.

I mean, yeah, you make a point, you do have Monks, but again, in a game where warriors are already getting spiked out like softies, I'dd still rather have that little bit of extra defence just so I know I can overextend a bit more, frenzy a bit more, etc...

There's no definite anwsers, as I've said, and I can give you million examples of which where either would be better. It all comes down to build, situation and players.

And for me personally, it comes down to Sents > All.

I Jonas I · Nov 03, 2010, 02:44 PM // 14:44

I don't know why anyone would forsake the opportunity to have a character who has 120 armor vs everything.

If you really need that extra shock, switch to a 15/-1 focus. If you need a shock after that then spam the skill less.

diabiosx · Nov 03, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

bottom line if you dont die alot, run +energy. If you die alot with your team, run +hp.

fowlero · Nov 03, 2010, 03:26 PM // 15:26

There's no definite answer, just toy with all the suggestions here see what you prefer.