Curse

Darth The Xx · Jul 30, 2009, 04:58 AM // 04:58

D shot monk is pretty good too, only problem with that was I kept trading guardian for pin down just for lols, the sad part is its pretty effective at times. U can also take crippling dagger

almost as surprising as disrupting dagger is

Reverend Dr · Jul 30, 2009, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

They don't, but tactically it's often smart to.

How? Both sides have 5v4 advantage, they should in all right be able to wipe the Kurzicks on both sides, then a simple pinch on the center and the entire Kurzick 12-man team is wiped and Luxons are in a very good position. Such a good situation doesn't come up nearly as often during actual play.

glacialphoenix · Jul 30, 2009, 06:31 AM // 06:31

^

What I've seen during actual play in Grenz is different. You realise that the cap shrines are much closer to Kurz than Lux, which means that the Kurz side is going to slink past first and start capping another shrine while the Lux teams are still capping the Elite NPC shrines. They're not exactly meeting at the halfway point.

EDIT: After Lux's reply...

Also, consider how many teams build to cap and can't fight for nuts. If your team is built from running from shrine to shrine and will collapse in a fight, it's a smarter decision to run from shrine to shrine instead of giving the other side free points. (The fact that your team will collapse in a fight is not smart at all, but at least you're making the best of what you can do.)

Lux Aeterna · Jul 30, 2009, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

How? Both sides have 5v4 advantage, they should in all right be able to wipe the Kurzicks on both sides, then a simple pinch on the center and the entire Kurzick 12-man team is wiped and Luxons are in a very good position. Such a good situation doesn't come up nearly as often during actual play.

Good teams will often try to wipe the opposing party 4v4 like this, bad teams won't.

My party was doing it today and it was actually kind of sad because the opposite kurzick team often would only have 3 members, no monk, or in general just get blown up in <30 seconds without a challenge.

moriz · Jul 30, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

also, keep in mind that the elite warrior NPC is retarded. if made to follow someone, it would do nothing except running back and forth. if you're lucky, it will hit someone once. it's much better to just leave it at the shrine, since its AI does function properly when it is not following.

Reverend Dr · Jul 30, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Warrior NPC AI is bad, but its not that bad. Its about like the footmen, they'll usually just run out and stick onto one target. It isn't huge pressure, but it can't just be ignored.

Copenhagen Master · Jul 30, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Just do JQ they at least better players IMO and I have played both sides. Only problem is the afkers and bots but at least the bots will attack better than some players HAHA. Wait time on Luxon isn't so bad, but when I do play Kurz side I wait around like 5 minutes or less. but they payout is usually more than AB and also games are faster

moriz · Jul 31, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Warrior NPC AI is bad, but its not that bad. Its about like the footmen, they'll usually just run out and stick onto one target. It isn't huge pressure, but it can't just be ignored.

unfortunately, that AI has problems when their point of reference can also move. try it when you get the chance; the elite warrior will often run between you and your target and do nothing.

the elite ele probably has the same AI. fortunately, it is a ranged caster and does not need to move to attack. that, and the ele have around 18 air magic. those spells hurt.

glacialphoenix · Jul 31, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Warrior NPC AI is bad, but its not that bad. Its about like the footmen, they'll usually just run out and stick onto one target.

Never had that experience; more often than not I tend to see them running back and forth, especially if they're following a caster who kites a lot.

Bobby2 · Jul 31, 2009, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Give the Warrior to another Warrior. At least it'll see combat; having it tag along with a Ranger or some caster is just a waste.

Reverend Dr · Jul 31, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Give the Warrior to another Warrior. At least it'll see combat; having it tag along with a Ranger or some caster is just a waste.

This is prettymuch the case. Or just get in there with your caster.

Elite warriors have always seemed to work fine for me.

Image Here.

Moderator's Edit: Changed [img] to [url]. Don't [img] anything larger than 800 x 600.

shem · Jul 31, 2009, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Its hard to see the bad warrior AI when 4 elite elementalists blow up your target before the warriors can get there.

the Puppeteer · Jul 31, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

This is prettymuch the case. Or just get in there with your caster.

Elite warriors have always seemed to work fine for me.

shame that you cant ress npcs now

Reverend Dr · Jul 31, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

With that "bug" of resurrecting shrine NPC's removed, rez orbs are now worthless.

Shem you know right well I got the Warrior NPC's to bodyblock people, all it took was one elementalist KD to get them all into place.

Krill · Jul 31, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

How? Both sides have 5v4 advantage, they should in all right be able to wipe the Kurzicks on both sides, then a simple pinch on the center and the entire Kurzick 12-man team is wiped and Luxons are in a very good position. Such a good situation doesn't come up nearly as often during actual play.

This is the best opening play for luxons on grenz and kurzicks on keys by far. The left and right teams should fight the opposing teams if its 4v4 by either pushing out of the elite shrines with the elite npc or turtleling in if the opposing team stupidly rushes in. The center team should either bravely rush strait into the res shrine (battle cry gives a major advantage), or go up the hill on the left and around to the res shrine over the bridge. They should not mob with the left team.

It all hinges on whether the center team can cap the res shrine before opposing players start respawning there. If they can do that and the other teams cap their shrines the map has become major advantage for the attacking in the first couple of minutes. It's really hard for the defending team to push out of their base because:

1. The distance between the res shrine and the defending team's base is much shorter than the distance between the res shrine and the attacking team's base. So, when you do kill players they are right back on you.

2. It's much harder for the defending team to push out of their base than the attacking team. The attack point in front of the attacking team's base gives a much better offensive boost than the res orb in front of the defending team's base. It's not uncommon to see one good team on the attacking side push out of the attack point and cap 2-3 shrines very fast, killing stray players along the way and thereby turning the map around before the defending team responds. It's much more difficult for the defending team to push out of their base and turn the map around like that.

--------

Now to give all this blather some relevancy. The luxon's are doing well on grenz (thereby making it so the map never goes to saltspray) because in general, they have a much smaller playerbase that is better and uses the offensive opening strategy that pushes the kurzicks strait into base defense. In an FPS game this is referred to as "map lock", i.e. you can spawn camp at will and there's no chance for a comeback unless the other team makes an organized push. Which of course, simply doesn't happen in AB.

Bobby2 · Jul 31, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

The center team should either bravely rush strait into the res shrine (battle cry gives a major advantage), or go up the hill on the left and around to the res shrine over the bridge. They should not mob with the left team.

Adding to this: center team can collapse on the enemies opposite the right team (8/9 vs 4), then sweep back for res shrine (with or without help from the grateful right team as the situation dictates).

BobTheTank · Aug 04, 2009, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Kurzicks always mob, and luxons never do. That's why luxons win, because mobbing DOESN'T WORK.

Shuuda · Aug 04, 2009, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheTank

Kurzicks always mob, and luxons never do. That's why luxons win, because mobbing DOESN'T WORK.

/facepalm.

As someone who plays both sides, I cannot begin to explain how wrong you are.

dorin · Aug 04, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheTank

Kurzicks always mob, and luxons never do. That's why luxons win, because mobbing DOESN'T WORK.

Realy?! Are you sure are you playing AB ?

It might be one of 15-20 runs without mob ( luxon or kurzick).

Seriously! If you`re playing and don`t see any mob .. something is wrong : maybe wrong game

tmakinen · Aug 04, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Also, mobbing is a completely viable strategy on Saltspray. It takes three above average teams who can properly coordinate their movements to beat a tenacious mob there.