Curse

Divine Ashes · Jan 11, 2011, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

i kinda have to agree with lemming, a public vote on something that 70% or more of the public really doesn't participate in, doesn't make sense

Easy. If you have no opinion or don't care one way or the other, don't vote.

Cantos · Jan 11, 2011, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Well, back when the game was good the ladder reset all the time, so I'm in favor of resets for no reason beyond nostalgia. But I'm mystified as to what you hope to acheive by this.

*lemming* · Jan 11, 2011, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

A single reset would do jack. Follow the link though and you'll see were Anet is going... regular ladder resets. Theory being that teams could set a goal to reach X rank in the current "season." That opens the question whether you would be offering rewards or QPs or end-season tournies or whatever to shift some of the focus of competition from ATs to ladder, even if just partially and to better support people who have no shot of mAT placement - the latter being important if you want more than ~50 guilds playing. I also cynically wonder if this is their "tiebreaker" solution, from the golden days of GW when people ground ladder wins rather than fighting for every match.

I sure hope not.

If the ladder has no bearing on tournaments, don't reset it unnecessarily; just ensure that the cleaning mechanisms actually do something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

A reset will make it very hard for guilds to make it into champ range.

Perhaps, but between ATs and the higher k-value of ladder, I don't think that we'll have the same issues of not having a critical mass of champ ranged guilds for around four months after the last ladder reset.

gooeydark · Jan 11, 2011, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leohan

Will we see the result of this poll, or is it just a way to for Anet to use the community as a scapegoat to say "Hey not our fault we reset the ladder" the community made the choice.

What is the ultimate point of resetting the guild ladder? It bugged for 2 weeks, so now we'll wipe out peoples accomplishments of months if not years. Will the numbers of all the guilds be set to zero, as in all the wins, loses, ratings be wiped? There is just not enough information given to what Anet is wanting to do with the ladder.
My vote is NO.

Wasn't the point of the poll for ANet to gather opinions on the ladder reset and base a decision they will make off of it? I didn't realize ANet was in the habit of blaming the community for actions they take.

As far as "wiping people's accomplishments" go, I believe it was suggested somewhere before your post that ANet should archive the existing ladder for historical reference.

My two cents, Lemming's post.

Missing HB · Jan 11, 2011, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooeydark

Wasn't the point of the poll for ANet to gather opinions on the ladder reset and base a decision they will make off of it? I didn't realize ANet was in the habit of blaming the community for actions they take.

As far as "wiping people's accomplishments" go, I believe it was suggested somewhere before your post that ANet should archive the existing ladder for historical reference.

Sure , but you know how biaised polls are , especially when the number of voters is very low , which will be the case here. The problem is that , at the moment , the only aim is to reset lader without anything aside. Thus , basically , anyone who doesn't play GvG seriously atm doesn't really care , and poll will be like 60 yes and 62 no..

On a side note , resetting ladder 1 year ago would have been a good way to prevent people from farming their champ title. In fact , now , 1 year after , everyone got its champ 3-4-5-6-7 , i don't believe they would care of losing their bought guilds...

Lord Mip · Jan 11, 2011, 12:34 PM // 12:34

From the post Lemming linked:

Quote:

What FPS games do, between tournaments, is give clans periods of time when the pressure is off. There will still be competition available (see point 1), but you can also chill out and fill half your roster with new players you want to train up for next seasons bench without worrying about tanking your ladder rank. In Guild Wars, the pressure was never off, and you could never take those risks. That is just a glaring fundamental flaw in the competitive structure.

This.

I am in favor of ladder resets because it ensures guilds will have to keep active to maintain their champ status. But I much rather see something like a week of ladder-freeze for every X amount of time that will enable guilds to catch their breath, try out new builds and get some newcomers trained for their team.

Epica · Jan 11, 2011, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I am all up for a ladder reset. This will get rid of people selling and buying guilds, just to farm the weekend for champ points. Also, when all guilds have to start over, new players will be more encouraged to play.

The rest I wanted to say is pretty much what Lemming already said.

Killed u man · Jan 11, 2011, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Terrible idea this late in the game. Frankly, I couldn't care less, cuz I'm only several champs away from C3 (Which is all I want) and farming champs, or even getting guests in crange guilds/AT's has never been a problem for me, but think for a second what this would lead too:

Due to the extreme inactivity, getting Crange, or even observer will take weeks. Just recently I've decided to try and farm some champs in my crange guild (1240 ish) and we didn't get a single match for hours, this was during active euro hour.

So whilst GvG might be less inactive (don't call it active, plz) at the 1000 mark, to be able to get a match at 1180 ish rating, you have to be pretty lucky, and it litterealy might take you weeks to get those final 20 rating points, and that's assuming you don't loose to a single smurf. (Which is the only thing you'll face)

So the only option you have is to play AT's. But the guilds that now aren't in Crange (or top 100) aren't there for a good reason, that good reason being that there's no middle class:

You've got the really bad players (HA'ers who only just started playing) and you've got the really good ones (Who just farm AT's for reward points). The newcommers will NEVER get any rating in AT's, and if anything, they will just get dropped below 1000.

Will it really hurt the game? No, because the game is dead already.

Will it really help the game? Depends on what community:

The newcommers will get pushed further into deep shit, whereas the "good" players, who are already reaping the rewards of zkeys, and who this ladder reset isn't aimed at, will now have the only champ range guilds available, thus increasing their price again.

My prediction if this goes through:

Even more lower ranked guilds will leave the game. An increase in the Champrange guilds selling/buying market.

Artisan Archer · Jan 11, 2011, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Terrible idea this late in the game. Frankly, I couldn't care less, cuz I'm only several champs away from C3 (Which is all I want) and farming champs, or even getting guests in crange guilds/AT's has never been a problem for me, but think for a second what this would lead too:

Due to the extreme inactivity, getting Crange, or even observer will take weeks. Just recently I've decided to try and farm some champs in my crange guild (1240 ish) and we didn't get a single match for hours, this was during active euro hour.

So whilst GvG might be less inactive (don't call it active, plz) at the 1000 mark, to be able to get a match at 1180 ish rating, you have to be pretty lucky, and it litterealy might take you weeks to get those final 20 rating points, and that's assuming you don't loose to a single smurf. (Which is the only thing you'll face)

This is just bullshit, I've been playing GvG almost daily for the past few months and getting a match is never a problem at peak euro hours. I don't know if you've been entering unranked or smth but what you say is just... not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Will it really hurt the game? No, because the game is dead already.

If the game is so dead why are you still caring about it, playing it, posting on forums about it. Please...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

My prediction if this goes through:

Even more lower ranked guilds will leave the game. An increase in the Champrange guilds selling/buying market.

Baseless assumption. Who would buy crange guilds if the ladder gets reset periodically, you must be pretty stupid to pay for something that'll be gone in like a month.

Lord Mip · Jan 11, 2011, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Indeed. If the benefits are only so short-lived, people are less likely to pay for it.

fowlero · Jan 11, 2011, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Due to the extreme inactivity, getting Crange, or even observer will take weeks. Just recently I've decided to try and farm some champs in my crange guild (1240 ish) and we didn't get a single match for hours, this was during active euro hour.

Is this really such a bad thing? Sure if you only care about champ title in gvg but really who cares about champ anymore. Somehow i doubt you actually sat waiting for a game for hours... Sure maybe 20+ minutes at champ range but not hours. But at that rank people are playing AT's, if you care about getting the rating that high it's your turn to enter AT's rather than take weeks to get 20 rating (i get you're exaggerating but really).

My guild itself has only just formed itself of some decent players, we haven't faced a single smurf (this is more luck, i by no means mean they don't exist) so far up to rank 200 and last night including (4 round) AT and 1 and half hours of ladder we got a total of 12 GvG's in with at max i think a 5 minute wait.

If rating gaps were made tighter (as would be by the reset) a lot more people would start playing ladder as the wait times wouldn't be nearly so bad for a large number of players and be much like when you start a new guild. Which is the only reason a lot of top (and some low rank) guilds don't bother to ladder at times.

Yes it would make champs harder to get but it would increase activity and actual ability to get games without long waits, sure it won't be in crange necessarily but i play this game to play this game not to watch a little title creep up.

Though it's no guarantee but this could well restimulate ladder play, if it doesn't then it's no loss but to those who have crange guilds to just farm the title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

Indeed. If the benefits are only so short-lived, people are less likely to pay for it.

Since it's still gonna be the only way to get said benefits for some people i don't see it changing a whole lot. Hell people may even pay more.

Killed u man · Jan 11, 2011, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

This is just bullshit, I've been playing GvG almost daily for the past few months and getting a match is never a problem at peak euro hours. I don't know if you've been entering unranked or smth but what you say is just... not true.

If the game is so dead why are you still caring about it, playing it, posting on forums about it. Please...

Baseless assumption. Who would buy crange guilds if the ladder gets reset periodically, you must be pretty stupid to pay for something that'll be gone in like a month.

I really wasn't kidding when I said we waited for hours. Not hours on end, but we waited +- 20 minutes, then we smurfed in in a 1000 guilds (it was zquest), we got a match straight away, so then we decided to go back to 1240 rating, and we waited another 15 minutes, etc. We kept switching back and forward, never got a match in the 1240 guild.

I said I really don't care about, but not caring about doesn't mean I don't give a shit about the disbenefit this will bring to newer people to the format. I don't give a shit about GvG, because it's already dead. I do, however, care about solutions to make it active again. This definatly is a bad idea. This were to be a good idea, if the format was already active, which it isn't.

I have read that they're going to introduce chests and rework the tiebreaker. This on top of a good skill balanced, then we're talking. But this update as a standalone is just a bad idea.

infi · Jan 11, 2011, 02:53 PM // 14:53

i disagree with borat mostly because he is in the same trap as some people here.

Every good guild gets their rating throught ATs so it wont hurt anyone from their side.

Bad guild cant get something in ATs and wont get it with or without ladder resets. So the only one good thing for them is perma-cleaner of their bad stats from time to time.

Does it change something? No.
Will it hurt anyone? No.

Ladder reset is just something new and, honesty, it's not so bad to get something new, right?

btw JR's post is pointless here because of ATs. None of top players care about ladder now so they have a lot of time to try new builds with different people. But any guild do this. Why? For different reasons.

ErrantVenture · Jan 11, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

A 3-month season with a big-tournament at the end (and a ladder reset) always made more sense to me than monthly tournaments with nothing at stake but RPs and a gold trim anyway. Come up with some cool ingame/NCsoft store prizes and have a big tournament every three months, make the monthly tournaments less important and add rank requirement to both so there's an incentive to ladder.

Tl;dr a ladder reset is pointless right now b/c there's no incentive to ladder. If you add some great rewards and incentives for laddering, then a reset's a great idea. Otherwise it's kind of pointless.

Seri · Jan 11, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

There's no point resetting ladder unless you're going to do something different with it next time. Tbh I think they should change it to SCBW or SC2 type ladder system, would allow for so many things.

*lemming* · Jan 11, 2011, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by infi

btw JR's post is pointless here because of ATs. None of top players care about ladder now so they have a lot of time to try new builds with different people. But any guild do this. Why? For different reasons.

I merely linked it because FoxBat brought up the potential of ladder being used as a part of tournaments again, which would be awful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

My prediction if this goes through:

Even more lower ranked guilds will leave the game. An increase in the Champrange guilds selling/buying market.

Champ point selling only works because there's enough dead guilds in the top 100 that you can have multiple guilds off observer mode at staggered ratings above 1200 to farm with. If there's only 50 champ ranged guilds, then every match they play will show up on obs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seri

Tbh I think they should change it to SCBW or SC2 type ladder system, would allow for so many things.

Yeah, let's give guilds double rating for winning their first match of the day; it'll make them think that they're getting better!

Tipas S · Jan 11, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Ladder reset can give impetus to GvG but only that action is not enough to bring new people to GvG and keep activity at a decent level .
A good mechanism is also if a guild don’t have a rated match for 2 weeks to be inactive .
As I red all the comments to this thread I noticed a big discussion about Champion points (much noise for just one title

) …. My personal opinion is that this title is the best time now to be more open for example a match between 2 guild with rating 1040 and above , I don’t want to be more extreme and say to every rated match

.
Rewards is a must to keep the interest in a high level , also some special events with extra rewards (that is a very good combination) for example a tournament that all competitors will earn TRP , zkeys , in game gold

.
Now I mentioned TRP , I think that the increase of them could help also to bring more people to GvG .
Promoting GvG is another subject for discussion …. Promotion of GvG is almost nil . Many announcements at log-in screen with guides and efforts of pvp community could help very much .
That is like a talk about GvG in Guildwars2 . A kind of .

xhappy feetx · Jan 11, 2011, 07:36 PM // 19:36

My post from QQ:

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy feet

Facepalm, A ladder reset is nothing more than a cleaning mechanism at this point, considering they offer no incentive at all for guilds to play ladder and maintain a high rank on the ladder. During GWWC, GWFC, Fall Season, Winterfest, etc. etc. Guilds had a reason to place high because doing so would ensure they had the chance to participate in meaningful tournaments, people can say well then just let the top 50 have a free pass to the mAT but what is easier grinding top 50 or playing 3 ATs?

I'm all for getting the dead guilds off the ladder but just resetting it for the purposes of cleaning the ladder seems a little dumb to me, there has to be actual incentive for people to play ladder and maintain a high ladder rank.

mrmango · Jan 11, 2011, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Good recovery from this crisis Anet.

I personally vote for reset and a reset recurring every 6 month or a year, I put the latter in the survey.

Razz L Dazzle · Jan 11, 2011, 09:18 PM // 21:18

In terms of helping GW 1 I think that a ladder reset idea is too late.

If the purpose to try GW 1 as a testing ground for pvp in GW 2 I think this could be interesting. If they wanted to try to integrate the AT system and the ladder system into a l"adder season" where the top 32 get birth into a seasonal tournament wth prizes I think that would be at least interesting to try. This would give an incentive to ladder plus it would give greater rating gains from playing in the ATs. Trying out this type of system with in-game prizes seems like it could give some feedback for GW 2 and how they attempt to implement pvp systems in that game. Possible ideas of returning to 3 game series between teams making the top 16 or so would be an interesting setup for me to watch.

So if the purpose of the ladder reset is to attempt to use GW 1 as a playground to help GW 2 i'm in support of this measure.