Curse

zero design · May 11, 2011, 10:48 PM // 22:48

So yea i was bored and made this for gvg.
Basically you got your paragons pressuring the targets putting some deepwounds, cripple and bleeding and ranger spreading ur poison. Then u got ur warrior camping their backline with stunning strike and the team also has a great ability to spike with skill n6 should bring a team down i think, i havnt tested it this is just for fun ^^

I tested the paragons and i am able to keep energy up with onslaught.

Killed u man · May 11, 2011, 10:55 PM // 22:55

RC and draw =gg

Conditionspressures used to work, but with powercreep (and the fact that degen didn't get buffed compared to 5 years ago), you're just not going to take down teams (read: of equal skills playing dervishes) before they kill you. If you even manage to kill them that is.

Also, those para bars could do some work. Onlaught is nice, but concidering all the free "useless" skills you've put in (SYG, never surrender, ...) you might want to concidering going D/P with Avatar of Balthazar and Heart of Fury. (Holy damage will most likely make up for the 2 attribute points lost assuming people will use piercing shields) Also, harrier's grasp > maiming by miles.

Then you've got +33% adrenaline. I would also concider taking out vicious for merciless to spam DW's, throw in spear of lightning.

Infectious · May 12, 2011, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Paragons are terrible in PvP.
Period.
They are outclassed in every way except for a very few niche builds.

Reverend Dr · May 12, 2011, 01:48 AM // 01:48

The root problem with paragons is that they highly favor 8v8 builds. Splitting in a build with paragons just hurts so much, less actual buffing going on and far less energy gain for the paragon.

As a class it is just so inflexible that it is hard for it to have a spot outside of any highly specific builds.

As for a paragon team build, the only one that has ever really worked was para-spike. Plenty of versions of it, but it is also very inflexible and generally worse than any other current spike builds.

Our Virus · May 12, 2011, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I would take. More tactical approach than just conditions and what you think may be good dmg. Paras require the most skill to play, needing alot of coordination and cooperation build wise an player wise. Those builds might be able to pressure a single target for a bit, but that doesn't win fights escepically nowadays. More importantly (to me) nh favorite skills, Defensive Anthem, is being used the complete opposite way! It ends if you use an attack skill and your team build has 5 attackers! I am pained as a para

saume · May 12, 2011, 04:03 AM // 04:03

is there a point in having 4 copies of a skill to spread bleeding when 1 of them can keep it perma on like 5-6 ppl?

I Jonas I · May 12, 2011, 04:14 AM // 04:14

the -20 armor change to aggressive refrain coupled with the recent buffs to dervs mean that paragons are totally outclassed now. Sucks but true

*lemming* · May 12, 2011, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Mostly the dervs. DirT's dual paragon build worked just fine before that.

Also,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Virus

I would take. More tactical approach than just conditions and what you think may be good dmg. Paras require the most skill to play, needing alot of coordination and cooperation build wise an player wise. Those builds might be able to pressure a single target for a bit, but that doesn't win fights escepically nowadays. More importantly (to me) nh favorite skills, Defensive Anthem, is being used the complete opposite way! It ends if you use an attack skill and your team build has 5 attackers! I am pained as a para

wat

Killed u man · May 12, 2011, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Rt/P (Spirit strength) have been better than actual paragons pretty much since all the big defence nerfs. All the nerfs after that simply made Rt/P the more effective, especially the recent nerf to strip enchant.

They pump about 30 more DPS, have even more armor, though 30 lesser hp (80 - 20 + 16 = 76 vs. 60 + 15 + 9 = 84). They're also immune to blind (Which is probably the biggest thing).

If you're ever going to run paragons today for the usage of ranged damage (And that's all paragons got reduced to post-nerfs), D/P's and Rt/P's are a far better option.

SpecialOpsNox · May 12, 2011, 01:08 PM // 13:08

in a balanced meta would be nice to try, but to be honest..vs 3 dervs...I give 3min to this build

zero design · May 12, 2011, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by saume

is there a point in having 4 copies of a skill to spread bleeding when 1 of them can keep it perma on like 5-6 ppl?

i take 4 copies of bleeding because you also want to cripple your opponent. If you dont have a condition on an enemy , the cripple wont apply and he will be able to dodge easy

having paragon maintain bleeding on a whole team is more difficoult than having a ranger maintain poison

Sankt Hallvard · May 12, 2011, 03:10 PM // 15:10

I think the title of this thread sums it up pretty well.

Dirame · May 22, 2011, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpecialOpsNox

in a balanced meta would be nice to try, but to be honest..vs 3 dervs...I give 3min to this build

3 dervs with mirage cloak.

I Jonas I · May 23, 2011, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Mostly the dervs. DirT's dual paragon build worked just fine before that.

What build is this that you're referring to?

*lemming* · May 23, 2011, 12:44 AM // 00:44

http://www.gw-memorial.net/builds/mAT/2011/January/611/

Killed u man · May 23, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Those are 2 niche paragonbars, and I still have to question:

How would 2 variants of that bar using paragon secondaries be any worse? (Retorical, they wouldn't)

For example 2 Rt/P's with spirit strength would have the damage of 3 paragons and the lack of utility will be made up by the fact they wouldn't have to stand still and cast every 8 seconds orso, losing alot of DPS. -I'm not counting the weapon of agression and enchants because paramogons got dem anthem of flame and anthem of envy- Ow yeah, I forgot, they can't be blinded aswell, which is a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing big thing if you've got a build relying on midline damage to kill.

For that matter, if they expected hexes (Empathic), they could've always run hexbreaker aria, which is a godlike skill in today's meta (as every frontline has spells nowadays). However, they dind't have dervs back then, so it would make sense not to run it.

The energy regen and shutdown is good on those paragons, but ask yourself: do you really need big energy on your monks, or big shutdown on theirs, if you can kill them twice as fast. The anwser would be: "No". Killing them should always be a priority or atleast when you're running a single warrior spike based build. No matter how much defence or shutdown you bring, if you can't kill them you'll loose, and thus you're just better off running Rt/P's which can still back reasonable amounts of defence at twice the offence. (hexbreaker, Gfte at low spec is effective, as is brace yourself, ...)

urania · May 23, 2011, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Spirit strenght<ench strip (esp strip or any dual removal)
Squishie<non squishie.

Killed u man · May 23, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Spirit strenght<ench strip (esp strip or any dual removal)
Squishie<non squishie.

Strip enchant got upped to 20 recharge. Assuming he strips perfect, he'll keep 1 SS down. When SS is down, you still got an unblindable damage dealer with 90% of paragon damage.

Also,

60 + 15 + 9 = 84

80 + 10 - 20 +16 = 86

2 armor difference against a 10 command/moti paragon. Rits are better.

urania · May 24, 2011, 10:19 AM // 10:19

the -20 part is fairly conditional.

Killed u man · May 24, 2011, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Conditional? It's the only IAS option paragons have, aside from going soldier's stance or onslaught or weapon of agression.

And if they do plan on going any one of those, they'll be sacrificing command (and thus utility) aswell as their elite and any secondary utility they could've packed. (/Mo or Me for whatever)

So either a paragon has to suffer from 20 less armor and result at only having 2 more armor than a rit, or he can sacrifice his elite and secondary and all utlity for the 20 extra armor, which in it's turn rises another question:

Is it better to have 20 more armor or to being able to deal +- 50-70% more DPS while being unblindable?