Curse

posmo · Apr 29, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

I haven't played the game in a while, but I do remember the last time I played, I had used a 3-hero build which worked very well in PvE. However, I can't seem to find the thread (it was a big thread at the time) on here anymore. Is the build nerfed?

It used a Mo/Me, P/W, and E/Mo

[build prof=Mo/Me][Guardian][Reversal of Fortune][Protective Spirit][Restore Condition][Aegis][Inspired Hex][Channeling][Resurrection Chant][/build]
[build prof=P/W][Flurry][Go For The Eyes][Watch Yourself][Energizing Finale][Aria of Zeal][Leader's Comfort][Signet of Return][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=E/Mo][Blurred Vision][Freezing Gust][Aura of Restoration][Ward Against Melee][Ward Against Foes][Ice Spikes][Deep Freeze][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Let me know,
Posmo

Antithesis · Apr 29, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

That looks like an old, old, crusty build.

Try Sabway or Racway.
Both are exceedingly strong offensively and defensively.

itsvictor · Apr 29, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Besides those builds being very subpar, I would also have to agree w/ Antithesis and try sabway/racway.

posmo · Apr 29, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

alright, thanks for the info. I'd figured they'd be crappy after a while :P

Marverick · Apr 29, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I think he may be referring to the Barrage Ranger, command Paragon, and RC Monk build.

However, due to excessive nerfing that basically screwed over the purpose of the build, it was trashed.

It went something like

[skill]Barrage[/skill][skill]"Go for the Eyes![/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]"Stand Your Ground![/skill]
the Barrage would just shoot and kill stuff, spam GftE, alternate SYG! with the Paragon

[skill]Song of Restoration[/skill][skill]Finale of Restoration[/skill][skill]Energizing Finale[/skill][skill]"Go for the Eyes![/skill][skill]"Stand Your Ground![/skill][skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill][skill]Vicious Attack[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill]

this guy would spam WY! and SYG! along with various finales to buff the party. WY! was 5s duration and no recharge, Energizing Finale gave +3 energy, SYG! and WY! stacked for a total of +44 armor, GftE! had no recharge, SoR healed the entire party for 100 every 15 seconds... ah the good old days

And then an RC Monk. It didn't really have anything to do with the rest of the team unless the area had a lot of blind and stuff that needed to be dealt with.

Konig Des Todes · Apr 29, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

The Builds I set up on my heroes work rather well. I havn't tried it in HM with just heroes *except for Ascalon areas, and it works well there* So I don't know how "good" it really is. But I'll post it anyways.

Prot Monk:
[build prof=Mo/E ProtectionPrayers=12+3+1 DivineFavor=12][Reversal of Fortune][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Guardian][Zealous Benediction][Shield of Absorption][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Rebirth][/build]
Equipment=Basic Caster Martial Weapon (+5 eng and +20% enchant)
Runes=Sup Prot, 5 radiant, 2 attunement, 1 Recovery, 1 vigor

Command Para:
[build prof=P/W Leadership=10+1+1 SpearMastery=10+2 Command=11+1][Spear of Lightning][Spear of Redemption][Blazing Spear]["Never Give Up!"]["Never Surrender!"][Defensive Anthem][Leader's Comfort][Signet Of return][/build]

Command Varient:
[build prof=P/W Leadership=10+1+1 SpearMastery=10+2 Command=11+1][Merciless Spear][Spear of Redemption][Spear of Lightning][Angelic Bond]["Never Give Up!"][Never Surrender!"]["Fall Back!"][Signet of Return][/build]

Either Version:
Equipment=20/20. 15^50, +30 Spear -5(20%) +30 command shield
Runes=3 Survivor *head, gloves, boots* 2 radiant *chest, leggings* 1 Minor Command, 1 Minor Leadership, 1 Major Spear, 1 Vigor

Minion Bomber Necro:
[build prof=N/Rt DeathMagic=12+3+1 SoulReaping=10 ChannelingMagic=8][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Bone Horror][Jagged Bones][Death Nova][Splinter Weapon][Dark Bond][Signet of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

Minion Master Necro Varient:
[build prof=N/Mo DeathMagic=12+3+1 SoulReaping=12][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Horror][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Flesh Golem][Death Nova][Consume Corpse][Verata's Sacrifice][Resurrect][/build]

Either Necro Version:
Equipment: Death Staff, +5 eng, +5eng^50, +1 Mastery (20%)
Runes:4 Radiant, 1 Bloodstain, 1 Major Death, 3 Attunement, 1 Vigor

Ritualist Varient: *for areas with few corpses*
[build prof=Rt ChannelingMagi=12+3+1 RestorationMagic=11 SpawningPower=6][Bloodsong][Ancestor's Rage][Essence Strike][Spirit Burn][Spirit Rift][Mend Body and Soul][Offering of Spirit][Death Pact Signet][/build]
Ritualist Version:
Equipment: Channeling Staff, +5 eng, +5eng^50, +1 Mastery (20%)
Runes:5 Radiant, 1 Major Channeling, 2 Attunement, 1 Recovery, 1 Vigor

Note: I made these up on my own, so if these builds already exist, didn't know so don't flame me on that please.

Edit: Changed spear skills on Paragon, forgot that I found better attacks instead of those that were up. I would also like to add that my Paragon skills are limited, as I don't use them much and have yet to unlock many of those skills. So there will probably be better replacements for that. The monk, necro, and rit builds, however, work very well as they are. Not to say the paragon build doesn't work well, just that they could still use improvements.

angmar_nite · Apr 29, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Minion Masters are bad in HM. Best Minion Master elite is AotL. Too many minoions on both bars. Trade out consume for SolS. Ressurect is bad. Verata's is bad compared to BotM. Splinter weapon would work better on ele or rit. Moar botm in that build. Self heal is bad on paragons. Never give up is kinda useless. As is barbed spear. Deep wounding and GFTE please. Fall back isn't very good imo. Better ran on a secondary. Barbed is bad. Holy isn't the best choice. AI Bad at bonding, more stunning strike. WHERE IS AGGRESSIVE REFRAIN???

Oh and monks are bad with ZB. Hybrid is better.

Konig Des Todes · Apr 29, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Minion Masters are bad in HM. Best Minion Master elite is AotL. Too many minoions on both bars. Trade out consume for SolS. Ressurect is bad. Verata's is bad compared to BotM. Splinter weapon would work better on ele or rit. Moar botm in that build. Self heal is bad on paragons. Never give up is kinda useless. As is barbed spear. Deep wounding and GFTE please. Fall back isn't very good imo. Better ran on a secondary. Barbed is bad. Holy isn't the best choice. AI Bad at bonding, more stunning strike. WHERE IS AGGRESSIVE REFRAIN???

Oh and monks are bad with ZB. Hybrid is better.

Your basically saying that all those builds are bad. But yet I actually use them and they work fine.

Quote:

Minion Masters are bad in HM. Best Minion Master elite is AotL. Too many minoions on both bars. Trade out consume for SolS. Ressurect is bad. Verata's is bad compared to BotM. Splinter weapon would work better on ele or rit. Moar botm in that build.

Minion Bombers work great in HM for me. And Jagged Bones is very good with an AI hero using it, as is Splinter and Death Nova, as they spam them, and energy is never a problem with the bomber build because the minions are constantly dieing and being replaced. Consume works well, no need for me to change that out, although I don't use the Golem build much anymore. Ressurect isn't that bad, doesn't steal eng like rebirth and doesn't need any points in healing. I have always found Verata better then BotM, especially with Heroes, as heroes like to spam that to keep the minions alive. Sacrifice is only used when it runs out *if 3 or less minions* or when recharged, much less then BotM, especially with more minions.

Quote:

Too many minoions on both bars.

TWO MINIONS IS TOO MANY? wtf are you smoking, I think you have something against minion masters now.

Quote:

Self heal is bad on paragons. Never give up is kinda useless. As is barbed spear. Deep wounding and GFTE please. Fall back isn't very good imo. Better ran on a secondary. Barbed is bad. Holy isn't the best choice. AI Bad at bonding, more stunning strike. WHERE IS AGGRESSIVE REFRAIN???

Leader's Comfort is only there as a backup. Never give up is helpful for the casters, but is one of the skills that can be replaced if need be. Barbed spear=constant bleeding usually, but all 3 attacks can be replaced with other attacks. Holy Spear is there for areas with minion masters in them. Aggressive refrain isn't in there because it causes Cracked Armor, don't want another condition for the monk to worry about, maybe for 8-man team.

Quote:

Oh and monks are bad with ZB. Hybrid is better.

My monk works very well with ZB, just as well as WoH, so best to keep to one attribute for more healing.

angmar_nite · Apr 29, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Your basically saying that all those builds are bad. But yet I actually use them and they work fine.

define work fine. Ten bucks says mine go through faster.

Quote:

minion Bombers work great in HM for me.

Cool. I said minion masters. Big difference.

Quote:

And Jagged Bones is very good with an AI hero using it, as is Splinter and Death Nova, as they spam them, and energy is never a problem with the bomber build because the minions are constantly dieing and being replaced.

Splinter requires alternative speccing for one skill other classes could take greater advantage of. I never criticizied nova or jagged.

Quote:

Consume works well, no need for me to change that out, although I don't use the Golem build much anymore. Ressurect isn't that bad, doesn't steal eng like rebirth and doesn't need any points in healing.

There's better options for the Consume slot. Ressurect < Ressurection Chant/DPS. Rebirth is bad too.

Quote:

I have always found Verata better then BotM, especially with Heroes, as heroes like to spam that to keep the minions alive. Sacrifice is only used when it runs out *if 3 or less minions* or when recharged, much less then BotM, especially with more minions.

One inequality. Health > Regen.

Quote:

TWO MINIONS IS TOO MANY? wtf are you smoking, I think you have something against minion masters now.

I see no use for shambing in a bombing build when minions do everything better. And your minion MASTER build has quite a few. Shambing and minions or just fiends.

Quote:

Leader's Comfort is only there as a backup. Never give up is helpful for the casters, but is one of the skills that can be replaced if need be. Barbed spear=constant bleeding usually, but all 3 attacks can be replaced with other attacks.

If they're all skills that can be replaced then it's not much of a build...

Quote:

Holy Spear is there for areas with minion masters in them.

Don't see those much.

Quote:

Aggressive refrain isn't in there because it causes Cracked Armor, don't want another condition for the monk to worry about, maybe for 8-man team.

-20 conditional armor is irrelevant considering it's a free unstrippable IAS. One of the best in the game. EVERY paragon should have it as any veteran pve player will let you know.

Quote:

My monk works very well with ZB, just as well as WoH, so best to keep to one attribute for more healing.

WoH will heal for more. AI spams ZB without looking at target's health for side affect. Rebirth is bad. AI is bad with dismiss. Oh, AI is also bad with RoF

Antithesis · Apr 29, 2008, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

-20 conditional armor is irrelevant considering it's a free unstrippable IAS. One of the best in the game. EVERY paragon should have it as any veteran pve player will let you know.

Absolutely, as long as there are two or more Paragons for the skillbar room to refresh the refrain via Anthem of Refrain, Anthem of Weariness, They're on Fire...choose your poison. With only one Hero Para on the team i can't justify the two slots for AR + refresh skill.

[[frenzy] is a perfectly viable IAS on a Hero Paragon (i'd never use it on a Human Para) for the same reason cracked armor is irrelevant. Paragons are rarely targeted and it compresses the team skills as no refresh skill is needed.

The Frenzy vs Aggressive Refrain argument aside, Angmar's right, a Paragon should include an IAS. He's also right about most if not all of the other stuff - I run Splinter Weapon on a bomber if the team build means i can't fit it elsewhere, that doesn't mean it's the best place to put it.

Sethellington · Apr 29, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

if it was a big build at the time, you could try listing the thread by views or comments. was it something like unstoppable fortress defense or something? i remember seeing the thread.

a ranger with barrage and para shouts, an RC and something else? don't remember an ele being there.

posmo · Apr 29, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Yeah, it might of been a R/P in place of the E/Mo. Haven't played in a while so no clue...

Konig Des Todes · Apr 29, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Cool. I said minion masters. Big difference. Splinter requires alternative speccing for one skill other classes could take greater advantage of. I never criticizied nova or jagged. There's better options for the Consume slot. Ressurect < Ressurection Chant/DPS. Rebirth is bad too. One inequality. Health > Regen.

Minion Bomber is a form of Minion Master. Also, in a 4 man team, no room for Splinter on another character unless you go rit. You said AotL was the best MM elite, I said Jagged was better, therefore you did criticize it. I only use Ressurect because it doesn't risk the MM's life*like DPS does* and it doesn't have an attribute.

Quote:

I see no use for shambing in a bombing build when minions do everything better. And your minion MASTER build has quite a few. Shambing and minions or just fiends.

just fiends doesnt work because the eng is too high, and I have shambling in for the jagged that comes in, and HORROR *not minoins* because it is a basic minion for any eng problems. And include fiend for distance attack, melee minions only can't solve all problems, just as ranged minions only can't as well.

Quote:

If they're all skills that can be replaced then it's not much of a build... Don't see those much. -20 conditional armor is irrelevant considering it's a free unstrippable IAS. One of the best in the game. EVERY paragon should have it as any veteran pve player will let you know.

Every build has skills that can be replaced with a select others, depending on the location. imo, any attack should bring a IAS for themselves, just as they should bring a defense skill and self-heal. Also, I run a sin and ALWAYS bring Critical Agility, so I have no need for IAS, neither does Morgahn, so have +25 armor or -20 armor, I choose +25 armor. I know veteran PvE players who don't even use IAS skills *and are attackers*. I know how to run my heroes, you run yours differently I can tell, so no need to say how mine are bad in absolutes like you are doing *at least seems*

Quote:

WoH will heal for more. AI spams ZB without looking at target's health for side affect. Rebirth is bad. AI is bad with dismiss. Oh, AI is also bad with RoF

My monk seems to work fine with ZB, I only get healed with it when under 50% health, and RoF seems to work fine as well. Rebirth is there because its a protection build, not a healing or hybrid. You have your opinions on skills, I have mine. As I stated, those builds work well in many situations and I have been using them for a nice long time to know that they do work. Go find another build to criticize now please, as I'm sure thats all you do. Criticize things and never help.

Also, you said you bet your builds work faster, why don't you post them if they are so good? Be helpful like I was trying to be.

Edit: I would also like to add that I have not edited these builds in a long time so I am sure that there are better replacements, but of what I have seen, they work fine as they are.

Lady Bokita · Apr 29, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I don't know for sure, but I think your talking about this thread?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10081126

Cheers,

Marverick · Apr 30, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Minion Bomber is a form of Minion Master. Also, in a 4 man team, no room for Splinter on another character unless you go rit. You said AotL was the best MM elite, I said Jagged was better, therefore you did criticize it. I only use Ressurect because it doesn't risk the MM's life*like DPS does* and it doesn't have an attribute.

Even at 0 healing prayers (although you will have spare points in there) [skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill] > Resurrect any day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

just fiends doesnt work because the eng is too high, and I have shambling in for the jagged that comes in, and HORROR *not minoins* because it is a basic minion for any eng problems. And include fiend for distance attack, melee minions only can't solve all problems, just as ranged minions only can't as well.

The minion bomber is fine, Shambles work quite well unless you really need Remove Hex or something.

However, 4 minions on the other bar? WTF? First of all, Flesh Golems suck. Secondly, run either Fiends + Shambles or Fiends + Horrors. Not all 3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

My monk seems to work fine with ZB, I only get healed with it when under 50% health, and RoF seems to work fine as well. Rebirth is there because its a protection build, not a healing or hybrid. You have your opinions on skills, I have mine. As I stated, those builds work well in many situations and I have been using them for a nice long time to know that they do work. Go find another build to criticize now please, as I'm sure thats all you do. Criticize things and never help.

Hero AI is consistent, you know. You can't "train" your hero Monk to use ZB when target > 50% health. And it's not just a rumor that heroes use ZB indiscriminately, they DO.

Rebirth sucks in every way, especially on a hero. The point of rebirth is (in missions only) to be able to run away and res your team to prevent being booted back to outposts. Do you expect your hero to do that? You shouldn't even have rez on monks; if they pause to rez someone then more people will probably die due to the lack of healng/protting from that inactive monk.

Oh and a superior rune on a Monk? yeah, ok.... now I understand how you derived all of your comments

angmar_nite · Apr 30, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

My hero builds? Sab MM i use frequently. N/rt healer. Kris's beautiful paragons and orders. I have a triple chop warrior on the side, pretty standard build. A BHA, epidemic, volley ranger. I got a RC hybrid that's slightly heavier on the prot side than healing, and a pretty balanced WoH hybrid. I run mind blast ele with rodgorts, Splinter, DPS, fire attunement, and pve skills usually being PI, GDW, Norn shouts, or every now and then BotGD

posmo · Apr 30, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Bokita

I don't know for sure, but I think your talking about this thread?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10081126

Cheers,

Yessir, that's it... So I'm assuming sabway is leagues ahead of that old build in effectiveness by now?

Bront · Apr 30, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

For feedback on the builds...

Quote:

Originally Posted by posmo

[build prof=Mo/Me][Guardian][Reversal of Fortune][Protective Spirit][Restore Condition][Aegis][Inspired Hex][Channeling][Resurrection Chant][/build]

Heroes aren't good with most single target protections. A more healing oriented monk works better, or the fabled sabway resto N/Rt. Heroes run Healers Boon, WoH, and Healer's Covenant builds might work better. Restore Condition isn't a bad elite though in heavy condition areas, but needs more healing, and probably less memser (Cure Hex would be better than Inspired Hex, and Power Drain is probably better on a hero than Channeling in PvE)

Quote:

Originally Posted by posmo

[build prof=P/W][Flurry][Go For The Eyes][Watch Yourself][Energizing Finale][Aria of Zeal][Leader's Comfort][Signet of Return][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Watch Yourself was nerfed hard, and 2 Reses on a build don't look good. Also missing an elite. There are better paragon builds out there (I have a thread about it floating around somewhere with some nice ones). Aggressive Refrain is a better IAS for a paragon in general anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by posmo

[build prof=E/Mo][Blurred Vision][Freezing Gust][Aura of Restoration][Ward Against Melee][Ward Against Foes][Ice Spikes][Deep Freeze][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Water Magic isn't as good as fire magic in PvE, where damage > slowdown for the most part. It's not horid, but Elemental Atunement might be better than Aura of Restoration in this build, and you get an Elite in there. Death Pact signet or another reusable res on this build would be a good idea too.

This build might work on in Normal Mode, but it's likely to get eaten in Hard Mode.

Bront · Apr 30, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by posmo

Yessir, that's it... So I'm assuming sabway is leagues ahead of that old build in effectiveness by now?

The only big hole in Sab's build is minions, as without them, it cuts into it's effectiveness a bit. Occasionally, other things can cut into it's effectiveness as well, but most areas it can roll over effectively with little danger.

Rac's build is a little less area dependant, but requires a primary Warrior or Paragon to play (though someone came up with a R/W build that worked fairly well apparently), as well as at least 1 PvE skill (Save Yourselves!).

Washi · Apr 30, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Holy isn't the best choice.

You gotta be kiddin

[skill]holy spear[/skill] is on my bar 90% of the time. There are minions or spirits almost everywhere and that skill just wtfpwns. Stone Summit in Slavers' just melt.