Curse

Martin Firestorm · Jun 27, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

They can handle jagged bones better too. That's a great elite for your MM hero BTW.

Tyla · Jun 27, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Not really, hitting Jagged Bones on a human's bar automatically targets the minion with the least health.

The Meth · Jun 27, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The difference between hero MM's and human MM's is that hero MM's can manage [[death nova] better. It causes armour-ignoring AoE damage when the minion, or meat sack explodes.

This is completely untrue. A good necro can have Death Nova on a minion before it dies just as a good monk puts prot on an ally before they get hammered. Yes, its harder then simply spamming minion making skills on recharge and popping out a BotM when your health is high, but its very possible to beat Heroes are minion bombing. I just wouldn't recommend it to a person needing help with MMing, just as I wouldn't recommend an OOU build to them.

Martin Firestorm · Jun 27, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Sure, humans can use death nova, some well, but not as consistently as a hero imo.

Tyla · Jun 27, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

My claim is that heroes manage it easier than heroes naturally. The effort the AI puts in is nothing compared to a human, especially when the area is clumped up.

The Meth · Jun 27, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Sure, humans can use death nova, some well, but not as consistently as a hero imo.

Wrong. A necro hero will consistently use it where it makes no sense: when facing ranged enemies, on targets that obviously aren't going to die, when out of battle, ect. They also use it on minions that are going to die before the cast is done wasting precious time and energy (and time is probably the most precious resource to a necro, they depend on spamming skills constantly). A good human is far better then a hero at Minion Bombing. I personally was a MB'er quite a long time ago back when TOPK farming was the shit, so I can say that a focused human player can significantly outpreform heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

My claim is that heroes manage it easier than heroes naturally. The effort the AI puts in is nothing compared to a human, especially when the area is clumped up.

Well, if you want to put it like that, since the AI technically doesn't put in any effort at all, humans are always worse then heroes. If you instead want to make the case that the difference between a human and hero bomber is not great enough for a human to be a bomber rather then a curser or another build, thats a valid arguement. But giving a blanket statement along the lines of 'lolol human MB'ers suxorz, heroes r teh r0x0rz' is wrong. Obviously you haven't done this, but I have heard people who take this position. I dislike such people who try to convince others that certain things are impossible, that human necros shouldn't strive to better themselves and their builds and should instead just be a boring minion master who hits 1-2-3-sometimes 4 which requires barely more intelligence then an ursan.

Cebe · Jun 28, 2008, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I would consider an Elementalist using the following:

[savannah heat][searing heat][teinai's heat][rodgort's invocation][ward against melee][gole][no skill][death pact signet]

Or for a more offensive version:

[savannah heat][searing heat][teinai's heat][rodgort's invocation][splinter weapon][ancestor's rage][gole][death pact signet]

Those need [[Fire Attunement].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samra

Thanks.

I won't be able to make an Ele build quite that good yet, because I don't have Savannah Heat -- I just got Nightfall. But I can give the Ele [Elemental Attunement] instead. Do they use that and [Fire Attunement] well? I figure they idiot proof.

Fire Attunement is idiot proof. Providing they have the energy they will always try to keep it active both in an out of combat. Always try to make the energy management in Hero Builds as idiot-proof as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samra

One other question for you -- why no rez for the monks? I'm either going to be using Henchmen or PUGs for the other group slots, so there will be deaths. Maybe give them Rebirth but just disable it, so they don't waste time during combat?

Not giving Monks a resurrect is not set in stone. If you feel safer giving your monks a resurrect then do so, but I think everyone would advise you definitely disable it. If you're confident in your abilities and your team in that you're not too likely to partywipe then remove the resurrect for more useful skill.

An FYI, in case you didn't know. The Stickied Guide at the top of this forum contains info on a lot of the more useful skills for heroes, on how well they use them. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293264

rick1027 · Jun 28, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The difference between hero MM's and human MM's is that hero MM's can manage [[death nova] better. It causes armour-ignoring AoE damage when the minion, or meat sack explodes.

i have to disagree when my hero mm has death nova he stands around casting it on other heros and henchies and not making minions. never had a hero mm who didnt do that

Tyla · Jun 28, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

But giving a blanket statement along the lines of 'lolol human MB'ers suxorz, heroes r teh r0x0rz' is wrong. Obviously you haven't done this, but I have heard people who take this position.

I didn't say anything like that. I would simply take a hero bomber over a human bomber because of the AI's usage of Death Nova, and maybe Dwayna's Sorrow.

Quote:

I dislike such people who try to convince others that certain things are impossible, that human necros shouldn't strive to better themselves and their builds and should instead just be a boring minion master who hits 1-2-3-sometimes 4 which requires barely more intelligence then an ursan.

The only minion build I would even consider using is a Minion Bomber. And I didn't say it was impossible.

I don't know, maybe it's the fact I prefer to configure my keyboard and mouse settings so it's easier to use. I just see heroes use Death Nova better than any human put in that position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Those need [[fire attunement].

No you.

Well on the second build I suggest removing either one of the non-elite Heat skills or Ancestor's.