Curse

MercenaryKnight · Jul 28, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Just giving fair warning, since some times even if your up against several monsters and your trying to kill quickly. You can easily get your whole group pressured to death, once they start dropping aoe damage and all your heroes drop their pots at the same time. Or atleast lose a few heroes.

That was even with I believe 4 discord healers and it was just hm outside rata sum heading towards oola's lab.

I am thinking that one should just be a discord n/mo with protection spells. Since a lot of harder areas are bound to have some hard hitting bosses such as eles like the disc of chaos or other stuff.

So maybe n/mo with protective spirit, shield of absorption, aegis/guardian and some other stuff along with 3 or so n/rt healers would work better?

distilledwill · Jul 29, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

The beautiful thing about this arguement is that although people may argue one is better than the other they actually work incredibly well in tandem.

Me and my brother are working through prophecies HM with a full necro team which shapes up like this:

[Necrosis][Weaken Armor][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Mark Of Pain][Signet Of Lost Souls][Assassin's Promise][Sunspear Rebirth Signet]
[Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Taste Of Death][Infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Remove Hex][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Discord][Rising Bile][Putrid Bile][Protective Was Kaolai][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Signet Of Lost Souls][Gaze Of Contempt]
[Weapon Of Remedy][Weapon Of Warding][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet]

[Awaken the Blood][Mindbender][Glyph Of Lesser energy][Spiteful Spirit][Barbs][Mark Of Pain][Rip Enchantment][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Taste Of Death][Infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Tainted Flesh][Rotting Flesh][Gaze From Beyond][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors' Rage][Bloodsong][Signet Of Lost Souls][Flesh Of My Flesh]
[weapon of remedy][weapon of warding][Ghostmirror Light][Mend Body and Soul][Protective Was Kaolai][Recovery][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death PAct signet]

I know, 2 lots of MoP + Barbs, but we both love the pretty numbers!

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

The beautiful thing about this arguement is that although people may argue one is better than the other they actually work incredibly well in tandem.

Me and my brother are working through prophecies HM with a full necro team which shapes up like this:

.....

I know, 2 lots of MoP + Barbs, but we both love the pretty numbers!

I dont think I agree with that. There is no good reason to merge Discordway with Sabway. What advantage does Sabway give to a Discord team or vice versa? How is the mixed team better than a full Discord team?

In terms of what each build consists of, they are almost the same. Both of them are triple necro builds and exploit soul reaping, both use restore healers, both use curses, both use conditions, and both have very similar MMs. The differences are, hero elite skills, in Discordway, are all replaced by Discord and at least in the Discordway that I use, 2 heroes double up as restore healers.

Look at the elites from sabway, weapon of remedy, spiteful spirit, and jagged bones. Personally, I dont care much about replacing WoR and SS with Discord which I find to be more useful. Jagged bones, on the other hand, would help you out more in low minion areas since it grants your minions a second lease of life and adds bleeding condition. But Discordway has a reputation of working well even in low minion areas anyway even though the strength of the team would not be optimal then and I can live without having bleeding.

The advantage of Discord is fast recharging, armor-ignoring, high damage. And because it is fast recharging, you dont really need other damage skills in the skillbar to take casting time away from Discord. This means I can equip the rest of the slots with heals, besides the necessary curses and conditions to support Discord.

Why is it good to spread out heals, curses, conditions? Because in sabway if the healer dies, or is busy kiting from enemies, or is energy denied, or dazed, etc. you just lost your heals. Discordway compensates by having them on both heroes. Similarly because every hero has Discord, every hero can inflict the same fast recharging, high damage. Same concept for spreading out the curses and conditions in a 6-heroes team. Because of the redundancies, losing 1 hero to death would not cause as great an impact to the team. This is the main advantage of Discordway.

==== you can stop reading here if you dont want to read my silly stories

======

Let me illustrate this with the story of the Titanic that was sank by an iceberg. The irony is, the so-called "unsinkable" ship at that time wasn't really unsinkable, what is trully "unsinkable" is the iceberg. You can cut the iceberg into halves and both halves would still float because of redundancies. One half of the iceberg doesn't need the other half to float. Cut the ship into halves though and it would sink.

Washi · Jul 29, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

As I said before, your precious elite SS will be useless in discord team because the target dies before SS even triggers,

MisterT69 · Jul 29, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I like pulling of discordway w/my AP ele, who runs a build which pretty much consists of [assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf]<--condition [mark of rodgort]<--hex as well as AP, [liquid flame] for da massive ub3r pwnz0r AoE dmg + burning thanks to rodgort. As well as some other utility like pain inverter but within the 4 sec burning that MoR + Liquid flame bring about, the discord necros are blowing the S*** out of everything

Numa Pompilius · Jul 29, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

This thread got me curious, so I tried out discordway. Yeah, I'd say it's better than sabway, certainly the team can take harder beating without wiping.
It has one weakness: if you play with H/H the necros will have some "down time" due to enemies not always having enchant/hex & a condition, so to get the most out of the necros one need to do like MisterT69 above, and bring hexing and conditions to help them out.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 29, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I still believe, that the minion bomber from sab's can be kept pretty much with jagged bones. Only because as they have already stated, you get bleeding conditions as well as an extra minion when the others get blown up in hardmode. So they keep aggro and keep minions alive to keep pumping out the energy for your entire team.

I just really need to figure out some how to keep from dying when your up against the big heavy hitter boss types. I went before with 2 necro's with protective spirit and we had I think 4 healer rit setups. But it still wasn't enough to prevent a few deaths from the disc of chaos in hm (yes we didn't have dazed except from golems)

Just curious, would anyone consider a ritual lord rt/n or maybe just a plain n/rt with shelter mainly for bosses (I know they suck with ritual lord/ spirit spam builds, but shelter can atleast be precast and cover an entire party for the big time bosses). Or should I just stuck with trying to put some interrupts/ dazed into the human builds and just dealing with the deaths against the big time bosses.

distilledwill · Jul 29, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Bear in mind in the build I posted SS is not played by a hero, but a human player. SS isnt entirely redundant when its played by another player, the two teams work in tandem focusing on different targets but healing and supplying energy to one another. SS is not cast on the target of the discord spike, I control who that goes to whilst my brother takes down the rest of the team. For example, whilst I spike down the monk, he will preoccupy the melee or offensive caster elements of the mob.

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I still believe, that the minion bomber from sab's can be kept pretty much with jagged bones. Only because as they have already stated, you get bleeding conditions as well as an extra minion when the others get blown up in hardmode. So they keep aggro and keep minions alive to keep pumping out the energy for your entire team.

If you are going with a 3-hero and a non-necro character, then you would only have 2 Discords. That would be weaker damage, but if you dont mind that you can try it out. 6-heroes, would be more likely to work.

Quote:

I just really need to figure out some how to keep from dying when your up against the big heavy hitter boss types. I went before with 2 necro's with protective spirit and we had I think 4 healer rit setups. But it still wasn't enough to prevent a few deaths from the disc of chaos in hm (yes we didn't have dazed except from golems)

If you are doing this in GWEN, why not bring Zho? She has BHA.

Disc of chaos is one of the toughest boss in the game, so I wont be surprised if they gain some DP from it.

Quote:

Just curious, would anyone consider a ritual lord rt/n or maybe just a plain n/rt with shelter mainly for bosses (I know they suck with ritual lord/ spirit spam builds, but shelter can atleast be precast and cover an entire party for the big time bosses). Or should I just stuck with trying to put some interrupts/ dazed into the human builds and just dealing with the deaths against the big time bosses.

Communing spirits have been nerfed badly. Shelter would only last for seconds. Maybe for this case, I would bring a tank and manually cast PS on him.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 29, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I was going with 6 heroes that's why I had no broad head arrow. I go with my gf who brings 3 more discord heroes and that was why I was trying to find some sort of protection n/mo or something that could aid the rest of the discord party since straight heals seems to lack against heavy hitters.

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I was going with 6 heroes that's why I had no broad head arrow. I go with my gf who brings 3 more discord heroes and that was why I was trying to find some sort of protection n/mo or something that could aid the rest of the discord party since straight heals seems to lack against heavy hitters.

I dont know what class you and your gf are using. If one of you is a ranger, then the solution is obvious, bring BHA.

My Discord MM is a N/Mo with Protective Spirit and Aegis.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 29, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Yeah i'm paragon, she's a mesmer. We pretty much just both load up assassin's promise, you move like a dwarf, assassin support, finish him and focus on aiding the spikes. We can usually get a good 4-5 assassins up as damage and meatshields just by all the damage and deaths.

Most likely I will just try to make sure we have 1 or 2 necros with protective spirit and aegis, then hope for the best when we run into heavy hitters.

DarkSpirit · Jul 30, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Yeah i'm paragon, she's a mesmer. We pretty much just both load up assassin's promise, you move like a dwarf, assassin support, finish him and focus on aiding the spikes. We can usually get a good 4-5 assassins up as damage and meatshields just by all the damage and deaths.

Most likely I will just try to make sure we have 1 or 2 necros with protective spirit and aegis, then hope for the best when we run into heavy hitters.

You are a Paragon? Use SY+TNTF then, if you are worried about heavy hitting bosses.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 30, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Yeah, I was just lazy and liked aiding in all the spikes. Watching enemies spike down 1 by 1 and 5-6 assassins running a muck is a lot more fun then spamming save yourselves. Plus I didn't have to worry about hexes or conditions screwing me over.

MisterT69 · Jul 30, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Anyways, thought I'd throw this in here, for the discord necros, if you throw [soul bind] instead of discord on the first skill bar, you can pretty easily dominate any destroyer you face in the game. Although if you're in an area w/destroyers and other creatures, it helps if you micro it at times

Mr Emu · Jul 30, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

So pretty much what i gather from this is AP nuker+discord for casters and something with SY!+racway for physicals. Also, if you only have one slot open, I see no reason to bring barbs over MoP, because MoP is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sexy.

rick1027 · Jul 30, 2008, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

Anyways, thought I'd throw this in here, for the discord necros, if you throw [soul bind] instead of discord on the first skill bar, you can pretty easily dominate any destroyer you face in the game. Although if you're in an area w/destroyers and other creatures, it helps if you micro it at times

have to try that out it sounds like an interesting variant

MercenaryKnight · Jul 30, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Probably shouldn't need that hex Soul Bind unless you disable it and plan to fight some big warrior bosses or something. I bring a necro with like 10 curses and enfeebling blood and shadow of fear/ suffering for aoe hex and condition so all the pressure isn't on the actual player to be hexing and conditioning every target they come across.

It's a shame, I wish there were more aoe condition skills (don't really like rotting flesh) or I wish shadow of fear was a 1 second cast.

distilledwill · Jul 30, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

Anyways, thought I'd throw this in here, for the discord necros, if you throw [soul bind] instead of discord on the first skill bar, you can pretty easily dominate any destroyer you face in the game. Although if you're in an area w/destroyers and other creatures, it helps if you micro it at times

I thank you, ive been lookign for a way to take out the newer hardier destroyers. With the new soul bind I can imagine them going down a lot faster.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 31, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Not quite sure if it's worth it. But so far whenever going into an area with a decent amount of corpses. I run 6 discord heroes, 2 of which both bring animate bone minions and death nova. Instead of bringing a jagged bones bomber they both can bring the discord elite as well as protective spirit, aegis or whatever else you may need.

I can generally see that between both of them they are able to keep up a good 15 or so minions easily, as well as dual death novas to get it going. Only bad thing is you can't bring blood of the master otherwise they would most likely sacrifice themselves to death. And you miss out on the bleeding condition from the jagged horrors.

I would like to try a dual fiend build for more damage, but the problem is that it seems too energy intensive for them to keep summoning 25 energy bone fiends. Not to mention again, there would be no blood of the master to keep them healed between fights.