Curse

Lishy · Dec 28, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I was researching Elementalist heroes and their uses, and a question has been brought up to me: Why not use an ele for orders?

[Ether Renewal] allows you to regain health and energy for each enchantment on you when you use a spell, which can totally counter the energy and health cost of [dark fury] and [order of pain]
[Aura of Restoration] gives a big health boost back when you use a spell, in which, when combined with [Ether Renewal] not only counters health loss, but gives you a nice boost of health in the process. AND it provides an enchantment for [Ether Renewal]
With such possibilities, though with a lack of support skills on an Elementalist, this brought me to look into the support that a blood necromancer and pull off. With your boost in Health, I think [blood ritual] can significantly support your party's e-management. However, even with [blood ritual], there is still a lack of skill slots. So far you have:
[Ether renewal] [dark fury] [order of pain] [aura of restoration] [blood ritual]

This leaves you with 3 more slots. Normally this could be used on pve skills, but right now we're using an Elementalist hero. [Resurrection Signet] is always nice to have, but usually it is only treated as a filler. Hmmm

Snow Bunny · Dec 28, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Maybe not because you devote your elite to micro managing a hero that could be done better with a necro primary without micro?

Dre · Dec 28, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I like the idea
maybe [glyph of swiftness] to keep up [ether renewal]?

Lishy · Dec 28, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

I like the idea
maybe [glyph of swiftness] to keep up [ether renewal]?

Heroes are dumb. It wouldn't work unless microed

Shursh · Dec 28, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

interesting...i've been using N/D and going [Order of the Vampire][Signet of Pious Light][Order of Pain]

1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2-1....cast signet of pious light just before the order runs out...bring along [Mystic Regeneration] and some enchants for extra healing, but you probably won't even need it.

the Puppeteer · Dec 28, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

as far as I know - dervish heros make great /N orders... If you replace em with an ele, dervs wont be used at all ^^

Nightow · Dec 29, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

[build=OgSjQsqKrOeXDxk4+ifDvg3yL]

Why micro?

Lishy · Dec 29, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

[build=OgSjQsqKrOeXDxk4+ifDvg3yL]

Why micro?

Which brings me to the question:
If heroes use that correctly, what about Ether Renewal? Is it confirmed they use it like an orders derv uses Arcane Zeal? They function very similarly, so I am not sure.

Luminarus · Dec 29, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I dunno if hereoes would do it well, because whilst they are similar, arcane is maintainable by itself, whilst renewal isnt. Could be worth trying. Also, since only blood and e-store is used, the other skills could be something more useful, such as blind, rodgorts invocation, curse skills, hell even animate bone minions could be tossed out as like a secondary MM.

Nightow · Dec 29, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Which brings me to the question:
If heroes use that correctly, what about Ether Renewal? Is it confirmed they use it like an orders derv uses Arcane Zeal? They function very similarly, so I am not sure.

I haven't used an ether renewal hero in a while but I believe they used it decently, just don't expect them to use Glyph of swiftness before it all the time if at all. IOW, you gotta micro with an ele hero.

distilledwill · Dec 29, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

If you use a Major Storage rune and have a +20% enchant weapon ER last 24s, the 6s of downtime of ether renewal will not hurt the ele's energy supply - especially seeing as he will have so much due to the high energy storage. I would suggest a build like this:

[build prof=E/N energy=12+1+2 Blood=12 pve][Order of Pain][Dark Fury][Blood Ritual][Blood Bond][Strip Enchantment][Energy Blast][Aura of Restoration][Ether Renewal][/build]

Energy blast/Blood bond are changeable for other skills.

Daesu · Dec 29, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

If you use a Major Storage rune and have a +20% enchant weapon ER last 24s, the 6s of downtime of ether renewal will not hurt the ele's energy supply - especially seeing as he will have so much due to the high energy storage. I would suggest a build like this:

[build prof=E/N energy=12+1+2 Blood=12 pve][Order of Pain][Dark Fury][Blood Ritual][Blood Bond][Strip Enchantment][Energy Blast][Aura of Restoration][Ether Renewal][/build]

Energy blast/Blood bond are changeable for other skills.

That looks a little too taxing on the health. Besides heroes dont always cast ER on their own as soon as it renews unlike arcane zeal or pious renewal. ER Orders Ele played by a human is fine, but I doubt Ele heroes are the best choice for an orders build. I prefer an orders N/Rt hero for Splinter Weapon support.

-Lotus- · Dec 29, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

It's been done before. Im not digging up any threads at 4AM, but its in here somewhere. anyways, it works, but Dervish heroes are more reliable at it.

Super Igor · Dec 29, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

If you use a Major Storage rune and have a +20% enchant weapon ER last 24s, the 6s of downtime of ether renewal will not hurt the ele's energy supply - especially seeing as he will have so much due to the high energy storage. I would suggest a build like this:

[build prof=E/N energy=12+1+2 Blood=12 pve][Order of Pain][Dark Fury][Blood Ritual][Blood Bond][Strip Enchantment][Energy Blast][Aura of Restoration][Ether Renewal][/build]

Energy blast/Blood bond are changeable for other skills.

Interesting, needs some imporvement but Im liking the idea of blood bond.

Abedeus · Dec 29, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

The problem with ER on heroes is - they use it when it's too late.

I often find my ER healers/protters low on energy, because they decide to use ER when they have 15-20 energy. And by then they have not enough enchantments on themselves to regain energy :/

distilledwill · Dec 29, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That looks a little too taxing on the health. Besides heroes dont always cast ER on their own as soon as it renews unlike arcane zeal or pious renewal. ER Orders Ele played by a human is fine, but I doubt Ele heroes are the best choice for an orders build. I prefer an orders N/Rt hero for Splinter Weapon support.

Bear in mind that with Aura of Resto they gain 400% of the energy cost back as healing, with a 10 energy skill thats 40 health, combined with 60 (assuming you only have 3 enchants on at the time, the order, aura and ER - in reality you're likely to be under Blood Bond and maybe enchantments from other sources) from ER, thats 100 health back with each cast. Admittedly this may be a little trying on health as with this build the hero will probably be at about 500-550 max health (with the 17% sac removing about 80-90 health) but combined with the use of other non-sac skills (energy blast, blood bond, ER, Aura, Strip Enchant) which will gain health without sacrificing every time they're used, and with Strip occasionally hitting you with a bit of health gain the hero will probably pull though.

Blood bond may be a bit much to handle - I've not tried it yet - its just theorycrafting though, try it and see. Also, I'd disable blood ritual so it can be manually used when needed.

I often use a ER prot/smiter and their energy is managed absolutely fine, even when theyre maintaining [[Strength of Honor] and casting with [[Zealot's Fire]. He seems to maintain ER when he can.

Daesu · Dec 29, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Bear in mind that with Aura of Resto they gain 400% of the energy cost back as healing, with a 10 energy skill thats 40 health, combined with 60 (assuming you only have 3 enchants on at the time, the order, aura and ER - in reality you're likely to be under Blood Bond and maybe enchantments from other sources) from ER, thats 100 health back with each cast.

Isn't Blood Bond an enchantment that you cast on target other ally and not on the ER hero, so it should not be contributing to the bonus from ER?

Quote:

Admittedly this may be a little trying on health as with this build the hero will probably be at about 500-550 max health (with the 17% sac removing about 80-90 health) but combined with the use of other non-sac skills (energy blast, blood bond, ER, Aura, Strip Enchant) which will gain health without sacrificing every time they're used, and with Strip occasionally hitting you with a bit of health gain the hero will probably pull though.

The sac is about 80-90 health every 6s or so, plus the additional -3 degen from Blood Bond and hits from HM monsters. Energy Blast is only once every 20s maxed, and strip is conditional with a 15s recharge. It may work in some areas but I doubt it will work well in high degen areas in HM.

Quote:

I often use a ER prot/smiter and their energy is managed absolutely fine, even when theyre maintaining [[Strength of Honor] and casting with [[Zealot's Fire]. He seems to maintain ER when he can.

ER smiter is alot easier to maintain compared to dual orders. Perhaps a low health build would work better for it.