Curse

Alex Dimitri · Mar 24, 2009, 11:50 AM // 11:50

@ OP

First of all u need to rune up your heroes !!! Every one of them needs HP rune (+41hp is best in my opinion) also they need "good" weapons (not just some crap u pick up from random drops) ! Superior runes are MUST for Necros i mean MM with 12 Death Magic is just not gonna work ! They need 16 to make a blast (i run 3 Necros in Discord build, with me as a main hexer (i`m Necro myself) it is amazing too see what kind of spike the heroes make when u place condition+hex on foe, it`s just seconds even for a very tough opponents! One thing u gotta know is that no matter how good necros are for hexing and MM or healer jobs they don`t stand chance against melee or ele spikes (AOE) so choose targets wisely and build minions before engaging any bigger group of foes ! If u do this u gonna rip through maps in no time and with little or none danger for ur team !

infameGW · Mar 24, 2009, 12:30 PM // 12:30

weapons are a big factor, you need 40/40 sets or atleast a nice staff for the right attributes. It helps them have energy in the beginning of the fight before anything dies, so like the resto has energy even after casting reccuperation.

fires element · Mar 24, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

i might have missed it but he never said if he was infused. that would be your main problem against mursaat. while it is possible to out heal the spike from spectral agony (i know cause i have done it before) its not recommended as it can quickly deplete energy for your healers. as for the imps just spread out and prot yourself first and aggro.

Moloch Vein · Mar 24, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

1. You dont need Reckless Haste in HM

This is a misunderstanding.

Luminarus · Mar 24, 2009, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Reckless Haste in HM is actually probably just as good if not better in HM because it makes them miss, and the IAS doesnt affect them. They attack at same rate, but miss a tonne, how is that not good?

TheodenKing · Mar 24, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driv3r

What about Imps and Mursaats, they kill me with their Degens

1. You are an ele... use your strengths... ie [ward against elements].
2. Your MM needs to be a bomber.
3. Runes aren't expensive.

I found for most areas, discordway is faster and more reliable than sabway. The exception would be places where the enemies have lots of hex/condition removal.

ac1inferno · Mar 24, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Sabway isn't working for you because you're an Elementalist. Sabway is more physical oriented and you are not taking advantage of it. Go Discordway instead and you should see improvements because that's more caster oriented.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Discord_Spam

Parson Brown · Mar 24, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

When I run Sabway, I like the new Aura of the Lich for my bomber elite. I also take weaken armor on the Curse necro.

For groups of imps, I flag my party back, force my bomber to put prot spirit on me, then aggro the imps. They will all waste their Rodgort's Invocation on you. After that, unflag and unleash hell!

zling · Mar 24, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

to be honest, sabway works best when you're playing a melee character. as an Ele you'd be much better off with Discordway/Rojway if you insist on running gimmick builds.

Daesu · Mar 24, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

This is a misunderstanding.

The typical purpose of using reckless haste with SS is to increase their attack speed so as to get more damage from SS. Since HM monsters already have IAS, it cannot exceed that cap. The only advantage is the increased chance to miss. Which only makes it like blurred vision and since your caster heroes are kiting from melee most of the time, you dont really feel the difference. Besides, heroes often cast it on caster targets which is wasted.

KIDGOOCH · Mar 24, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

In any 8 man area I went into, I brought earth ele two healers or one and an rt along with tank if I wasn't one or interrupt ranger if I was. I use this build with all classes very well, though have switched to Discord build to try something different, then I bring mes, curses or blood nec, and make myself degen if possible (epidemic ranger is awesome). But either works very well as long as you know your limitations, no problems with melee ever, mesmers are sometimes troublesome as well as multiple healer groups, otherwise most groups get plowed through. Call targets whenever possible, to focus your groups attention or they will go after whatever is nearest. Rune you heroes immediately even if its only minors with attunements, and vigor as a boost. Go practice against ettins to get the feel of them, then go after griffons, then hydras, then hit shiverpeaks. By this time, everything should be clear as to how they are supposed to work.

Daesu · Mar 24, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

to be honest, sabway works best when you're playing a melee character.

Sabway works with caster characters too. Discordway is, strictly speaking, a variant of sabway using discord as the elite. Same exploitation of Soul Reaping with triple necro.

brakner · Mar 24, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Sabway isn't working for you because you're an Elementalist. Sabway is more physical oriented and you are not taking advantage of it. Go Discordway instead and you should see improvements because that's more caster oriented.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Discord_Spam

Wouldn’t having 2 Monks be better than 2 Rits? I find Hexes hurt way more than conditions in HM and the combination of Mend Body and Soul and Infuse/Foul Feast would be more than enough, especially if you take the protector hench. This works better for me than the PvX builds but I guess to each their own.

I also prefer Reckless Haste over Shadow of Fear as I find the 50% miss works better that 50% slower since I still take Enf blood/MoP/SS for my marking and all the minions plus Pain inverter for bosses. I just cant stomach taking AP and 3 PVE skills as what’s the point in me playing a Nec?

[build prof=N/Rt death=10+1+1 sou=8+1 res=12][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=8+1 curse=8+1 heal=6][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste][infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Cure Hex][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 soul=8+1 prot=9 heal=5][Discord][Putrid Bile][Animate Bone Minions][death nova][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Shield of Absorption][Cure Hex][/build]

JASON626 · Mar 24, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I killed the fire imps in tyria by keep heroes flagged back about at the edge of my agrro bubble. maintian prot spirit on yourself by forcing a hero to use it. move up a tank them. I was an ele, so use either nukes or I sometime run spiteful spirit on my self, necrosis, blurred vision, maelstrom,paininverter, ebon vanguard assissin support, enfebleing blood with a discord heroes and hench. The warrior hench isn't so great in some zones. He runs ahead pulls aggro or when fightening verses rangers you need to hide around corners and cast to aviod major damage he'll run ahead.

Moloch Vein · Mar 24, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The typical purpose of using reckless haste with SS is to increase their attack speed so as to get more damage from SS. Since HM monsters already have IAS, it cannot exceed that cap.

Wow, I so did not know that...

Quote:

The only advantage is the increased chance to miss. Which only makes it like blurred vision and since your caster heroes are kiting from melee most of the time, you dont really feel the difference. Besides, heroes often cast it on caster targets which is wasted.

Heroes often cast everything on the wrong target, Reckless is hardly an exception. And Blurred Vision is a great spell, it's just in a semi-weak line. Reckless Haste is a lot more useful against any challenging content than Enfeebling Blood, because it breaks chains.

The original poster was complaining about dying. Telling him he doesn't need Reckless Haste in HM seems a bit counterproductive.

Daesu · Mar 24, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Heroes often cast everything on the wrong target, Reckless is hardly an exception. And Blurred Vision is a great spell, it's just in a semi-weak line. Reckless Haste is a lot more useful against any challenging content than Enfeebling Blood, because it breaks chains.

The original poster was complaining about dying. Telling him he doesn't need Reckless Haste in HM seems a bit counterproductive.

It doesn't break any chains if it is used on a caster. Reckless Haste doesn't work well in HM through heroes, because heroes cast it on caster monsters also. In NM, Reckless synergizes with SS to work well even against casters so using it in NM makes sense, even through heroes.

There are other skills that work better with heroes like enfeebling blood (if he doesn't already have it). If he wants to bring Reckless, he should micro manage it or bring it on his own character so he can cast it on melee instead of casters, wasting energy and skill slot.

Like MoP, Reckless is just not the best skill to put on a heroes's bar for HM. That doesn't mean the skill itself is bad when used correctly.

zling · Mar 24, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Sabway works with caster characters too. Discordway is, strictly speaking, a variant of sabway using discord as the elite. Same exploitation of Soul Reaping with triple necro.

both abuse Soul Reaping, true, but Sabway is rather wasted on a caster class. [barbs], [mark of pain], [splinter weapon], etc are rather wasted on a caster, yes Minions still trigger the curses but it's a lot less effective than if you're running a melee.

Discordway is just spike, spike and moar spike, works with any character, but less effective than standard sabway if you're running melee.

Rojway is well, a rip off of Discordway just with Monks instead of Necros...

Daesu · Mar 24, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakner

I also prefer Reckless Haste over Shadow of Fear as I find the 50% miss works better that 50% slower since I still take Enf blood/MoP/SS for my marking and all the minions plus

Except that Reckless Haste at level 14 lasts for 12s and Shadow of Fear lasts for 28s at level 14. Shadow of Fear also has a recharge of 5s while Reckless has a recharge of 12s. But Reckless makes better sense with a SS build than SoF.

brakner · Mar 24, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Except that Reckless Haste at level 14 lasts for 12s and Shadow of Fear lasts for 28s at level 14. Shadow of Fear also has a recharge of 5s while Reckless has a recharge of 12s. But Reckless makes better sense with a SS build than SoF.

Its not that I want to run SS I am just A.D.D on my new Nec . I did Prophecy to Ascension , Nightfall up to Master of Whispers and then EoTN up to Livia. I haven’t decided which way to go now ( I would need to do Faction or get another book for Discord ). If I ran Discord on me I would probably change RH to SoF

Driv3r · Mar 24, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Thanks for all your help guys! So I will definetly rune up my hero's. Gatta practice and get a feel for it and just try different combo's. I'll definetly try a support build for my ele and the Imp strategy, ty all very much!