Curse

Prayash · Jul 28, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Does the Discordway build with heroes require you to use the EotN skills ("Finish Him!" / "You Move Like a Dwarf")? Or can I use a normal PvE build with it.

subarucar · Jul 28, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

You need to supply a condition and a hex, these need to be spammable and you need to be able to upkeep energy.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 28, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

It doesn't require it but it helps. You would need to give one of your heroes a condition and hex to spam. Generally suffering/shadow of fear and weaken armor/ enfeebling blood.

The problem is they could take some time applying it so it'll slow down your spike. If your playing a caster character you'll pump out more damage with an ap caller most of the time.

If you are a physical try bringing something like asuran scan and some condition skill with you.

KZaske · Jul 28, 2009, 09:20 AM // 09:20

You need a condition and a hex at the start of the build. I consider "Finigh Him" to be the finale. It is not necessary for the build to work. I use it all the time on a smiter that does not have Finish Him. I just use a smite sig to polish him off. It just makes things move along faster.

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 28, 2009, 11:17 AM // 11:17

You dont need to have them although they do make things so much better as long as you have a mean to apply a hex and a condition in your build you will be fine.

Prayash · Jul 28, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Since, I dont have EotN, I'm thinking about using Assassin's Promise, Dancing Daggers, Entangling Asp, Signet of Toxic Shock, Augury of Death and maybe some other skills.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 28, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

If your using the assassin with no eotn skills you can just run a mb+ db sin with save yourselves. Will greatly help the discord party with armor and damage. You could alter some of the builds to bring strength of honor, splinter weapon etc.

If your just using a secondary assassin, (don't know your primary) then you can focus on your primary or go /necro and just bring a quick recharging hex and condition.

Prayash · Jul 28, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I am a W/ . Right now I'm using the AP caller thing without any EotN skills. I start with AP -> Augury of Death -> Dancing Daggers ->Entangling Asp (Enemy is dead by this time..) and if not, Signet of Toxic Shock.
My heroes are MoW (Healer), Olias (Minion Bomber) and Razah (Curser/Healer). I'm using the builds from PvX with slight changes.

Pocketmancer · Jul 28, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Hate to break it to you but Warriors and Paragons have difficulty running AP builds for Discordway with or without EoTN. Their energy regen just isn't enough to keep it going, even with AP returning some energy.

Prayash · Jul 28, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I'm using a +15 energy staff, takes up my energy up to 35. I use about 20 and AP gives back 17. I've tried the Deadly Arts skills that I listed in my recent post and I have had no problem with energy. I still have 2 empty slots and don't know what to put in them.

Improvavel · Jul 28, 2009, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Why you are using AP caller beats me.

If you really want an hex, grasping earth gives you a nearby AoE hex.

A condition isn't that hard to come by - WE can have easy deepwound, Earth Shaker has deepwound and/or weakness, Swords can have bleeding although that is meh and all can have withering aura,

Sincerely, if you do your job as warrior you can leave the hex and the conditions to heroes.

Ap callers need to apply a condition and an hex fast because they need to get their other skills recharged - mostly those PvE only skills from EotN.

As a warrior you don't have to do that.

There is a big thread around here concerning the use of discord heroes with physical heroes and without an AP caller.

fenix · Jul 29, 2009, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I use the AP caller on my Warrior; but I use this bar;

Assassin's Promise, You Move Like A Dwarf, Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, Enduring Toxin, Enraging Charge, Lion's Comfort, Save Yourselves, For Great Justice

I use the Hourglass Staff for +15e, and bring Succor on my N/Mo minion guy, so that I get 3 regen.

I never run out of energy, and if we're taking heaps, I can swap to a sword and SY everyone (AP recharging FGJ means 24/7 double adren, woo).

pug_ster · Aug 06, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocketmancer

Hate to break it to you but Warriors and Paragons have difficulty running AP builds for Discordway with or without EoTN. Their energy regen just isn't enough to keep it going, even with AP returning some energy.

I have a war and paragon running discordway build, with eotn. I have to equip with a +15 energy staff, though + 15 + 5^50 would be ideal, but not necessary... Just call AP, and if there's no condition on the mob, call YMLAF and EVAS on every other kill. By the 3rd or 4th mob, one of the necro would've used enfeebling blood, got affected by death nova or hit by a shambling horror, so you don't have to use YMLAF. I only use Finish him only if the I have alot of energy or if the mob is a monk or ritualist. It is certainly not as ideal as an necro running discordway build, but it can be managed. Though I like the look of a paragon holding a staff, looks like someone holding a baseball bat.

I would also recommend that you bring along signet of toxic shock with you as sometimes if the mob is poisoned you can use it. Or if you want to induce poison, put a few points in shadow arts and put on viper's defense. Run into the target, cast Viper's defense and follow by signet of toxic shock.

AtomicMew · Aug 06, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Paragon's do okay as AP callers because of built in e-management. Bump up leadership to 14. Anthem of flame spam gets you decent damage and little bit of energy. GftE or energizing chorus gets you a lot. Paragon also has strong optional slots in command shouts.

Paul Dawg · Aug 07, 2009, 04:15 AM // 04:15

This is my AP caller (which I think is a lot more effective than the standard AP caller):

A/N, 12+1+1 deadly arts, 12 curses (of course N/A works well too)

assassin's promise (e)
enfeebling blood
mark of pain
ebon vanguard assassin support
rigor mortis
"finish him!"
signet of deadly corruption (check the updated skill description!)
pain inverter

Standard sequence is 3-4-2-1-6-7. That works most of the time; sometimes 8 is a more effective hex than 3; sometimes 4 isn't really necessary; sometimes you can start right off with 1 instead of 3-4 first; and sometimes 5 is important to counter blocking.

Life Bringing · Aug 07, 2009, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

This is my AP caller (which I think is a lot more effective than the standard AP caller):

A/N, 12+1+1 deadly arts, 12 curses (of course N/A works well too)

assassin's promise (e)
enfeebling blood
mark of pain
ebon vanguard assassin support
rigor mortis
"finish him!"
signet of deadly corruption (check the updated skill description!)
pain inverter

Standard sequence is 3-4-2-1-6-7. That works most of the time; sometimes 8 is a more effective hex than 3; sometimes 4 isn't really necessary; sometimes you can start right off with 1 instead of 3-4 first; and sometimes 5 is important to counter blocking.

New Sig of Deadly Corruption is hawt, ive already put it in my AP caller. The thing i dont like about your build is that it lacks a knocklock, which makes it MUCH easier to shutdown monks/casters. Your kills will also take longer because they need setup time to apply your conditions/hexes, rather than just AP-->YMLaD! and the target dies with a finish him. On a side note, <3 new Masochism.

MercenaryKnight · Aug 07, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Yep I hated the old signet of corruption. I saw it at first and said this will be an awesome addition. Then I noticed the requirement.

Now you'll get an additional 80+ damage spike after ymlad and finish him to help ensure the target goes down. Not to mention even more damage if they are poisoned or weakened.

I run ap caller as a paragon. I bring fall back to help move quicker and also keep more minions alive longer. It's great with assassin's promise because it's recharged after every fight.

I am also considering we shall return for an emergency res incase of a hard area. But most likely if it's hard I would be running an imbagon anyway so unsure.

Awex Mafyews · Aug 08, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

I've used a normal PvE build with conditions on my warrior and comparing it to my mes that uses the standard AP caller build, the AP caller is 3 times as fast in my opinion. You can literally spam the first 3 keys in a lot of places, obviously that gets boring but yeah up to your personal preference, as long as you've got condition and hex applying skills somewhere in your build discord will work.

Life Bringing · Aug 08, 2009, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

I've used a normal PvE build with conditions on my warrior and comparing it to my mes that uses the standard AP caller build, the AP caller is 3 times as fast in my opinion. You can literally spam the first 3 keys in a lot of places, obviously that gets boring but yeah up to your personal preference, as long as you've got condition and hex applying skills somewhere in your build discord will work.

For a caster, your best bet is the caller. However, as a melee/ranger/paragon, it's relatively easy to decide to use other skills to provide the requirements. Asuran Scan+Wounding Strike is probably one of the best choices for derv and sin. Ranger could use apply+scan. Warrior and para are a little more awkward, but would still work.

Paul Dawg · Aug 09, 2009, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

New Sig of Deadly Corruption is hawt, ive already put it in my AP caller. The thing i dont like about your build is that it lacks a knocklock, which makes it MUCH easier to shutdown monks/casters.

Frankly, one of the things I don't like about discord in general is that it lacks a knocklock. YMLaD is hardly a knocklock. It's a single KD. And EVAS knocks down the target with iron palm anyway. So what does YMLaD really add? I find PI more useful, and you only get three PvE-only skills.

Quote:

Your kills will also take longer because they need setup time to apply your conditions/hexes, rather than just AP-->YMLaD! and the target dies with a finish him. On a side note, <3 new Masochism.

How does AP/YMLaD apply conditions faster than mark of pain/enfeebling blood? The first takes 2 3/4 seconds (since the crippled condition doesn't take effect until after the target gets back up). The second takes 2 seconds of casting time and an aftercast delay of 3/4 second in between. Isn't that identical?