Curse

Meridon · Aug 20, 2009, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Hey people.

Everyone knows Sabway. Yes, it's good. I don't like running it on my Ranger though. I could of course just run Barrage + Barbs/Mark of Pain/Splinter weapon, but i'm not like that. I've also been looking for a way to make my 2nd mesmer hero an effective Illusionist, and I think I've found one.

This build has been designed to work with the minion master and the healer of Sabway, changing the curser to a condition-based spellcaster, along with the player (me).

Tnis is it:

Mesmer/ Elementalist
7+1 Fast Casting
10+1+1 Illusion Magic
10+1 Inspiration Magic
8 Water Magic
3 Fire Magic
7 Unused attribute points. This is iffy, but adding them to Fire magic doesn't really do anything. I guess you could lower FC by one and add a level in Water Magic though.

1. Fevered Dreams
2. Fragility
3. Glyph of Immolation
4. Steam
5-8 are optional, but need to be focused heavily on energy management. I run this:
5. Hex eater Signet (since Sabway lacks hex removal)
6. Power Drain
7. Drain Enchantment
8. Rez sig

The power of this build lies in the fact that it's able to shutdown entire mobs almost instantly, by applying and maintaining Blind & Daze. On top of that, there is room for hex removal, and Fragility has a huge damage potential. For one, it triggers on Jagged Horror's attacks. On my ranger I run an Incendiary Arrows + Apply Poison build to add damage through Fragility, and to spread degen. My Ranger is currently /P to Carry Hexbreaker Aria, an extra way to deal with hexes.

As far as I can see, these are the pros and cons:

pros:
-Great mob shutdown through daze + blind
-Fragility can be a very powerful AoE damage skill.
-Room for an interrupt, a hex remove, and an enchantment remove on the bar, making it very versatile, providing shutdown, damage, and support.

cons:
-Condition based. Against fleshy foes it's awesome. Against non-fleshy foes it still works in the application of blind & Daze, but poison and bleeding don't trigger anymore... and so neither does Fragility.
-Arguably a bit less damage output than the ordinary Warrior + Curser + Minions.
-Since it's condition based, it won't work with many player professions. Ranger is probably best. Paragon, Assassin Elementalist, and Necromancer (virulence) could work.

All in all, don't try to see this as just an alternative to Sabway curses, and more as a quest to find a new role for the Mesmer hero.

Feedback and suggestions please

Meridon

MarciNoExcess · Aug 20, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

If you're running a Fragility Hero, i recommend you to go R/Me, and use You move like a dwarf + Epidemic. And also, use Broad Head Rocket, if you dont like barrage.

Paul Dawg · Aug 20, 2009, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I like 1-4. Not so sure about 5-8. Hex eater signet has a 25-second recharge, so it's not like it's really going to help much against hex-heavy areas in HM, and heroes tend to miss pretty often with drain enchantment.

Captain Bulldozer · Aug 20, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Spreading your attribute points across 5 different lines is brave! Or foolish. Probably the latter. If you want to run FD, don't worry so much about causing all the conditions yourself. Let some of your hereos do some of the condition causing and focus more on your major attributes.

paranon · Aug 20, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Personally i don't think this is viable, even just to undust the old mesmer hero, conditions don't really do enough to be worth using an elite slot to spread, and 3 seconds of daze on 1 target.. technobabble anyone? There are better mesmer builds to run on heros (Me/Rt Tease, PB)

An interesting thing to try with a ranger would be to run Barrage with:

Hero 1 - A/D
Wounding Strike
Mystic Sweep
Eremite's Attack
Malicious Strike
Heart of the Holy Flame
Critical Eye
Way of the Master
(Other Damage Buff/Res)

Hero 2 - W/D
Warrior's Endurance
Power Attack
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
Heart of the Holy Flame
Endure Pain
Healing Signet
Resurrection Signet

Hero 3 - E/Rt
Ether Renewal
Fire Attunement
Earth Attunement
Air Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Brutal Weapon
Splinter Weapon
Resurrection Chant

Not sure how it would pan out, but could be potential for some epic splinter bombing, but the ele hero might need some serious microing.

Paul Dawg · Aug 20, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

The other problem is that once you've done glyph of immolation and steam, you've kinda hit a dead end. Reapplying burning and blind won't trigger fevered dreams again, and your bar doesn't have any other skills that cause harm. Why not at least throw on something like shatter delusions so that you can start the process over again?

I kinda think you have to scrap the fevered dreams idea, use epidemic instead, and think of some other elite that will punish conditions. But then the problem is that heroes suck at using epidemic...

Daisuko · Aug 20, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

Personally i don't think this is viable, even just to undust the old mesmer hero, conditions don't really do enough to be worth using an elite slot to spread, and 3 seconds of daze on 1 target.. technobabble anyone? There are better mesmer builds to run on heros (Me/Rt Tease, PB)

An interesting thing to try with a ranger would be to run Barrage with:

Hero 1 - A/D
Wounding Strike
Mystic Sweep
Eremite's Attack
Malicious Strike
Heart of the Holy Flame
Critical Eye
Way of the Master
(Other Damage Buff/Res)

Hero 2 - W/D
Warrior's Endurance
Power Attack
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
Heart of the Holy Flame
Endure Pain
Healing Signet
Resurrection Signet

Hero 3 - E/Rt
Ether Renewal
Fire Attunement
Earth Attunement
Air Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Brutal Weapon
Splinter Weapon
Resurrection Chant

Not sure how it would pan out, but could be potential for some epic splinter bombing, but the ele hero might need some serious microing.

Bolded = ew.

to list...

1 melee pathfinding is generally bad, overaggro is aplenty and they don't tank well.
2 A/D is not nearly as good on a hero due to lack of Critical Agility (or any IAS to speak of)
3 Heart of the holy flame is only helpful in areas with undead.
4 res sig/healsig/ect are baed on heroes imo.
5 the ele... just... just what the eff. E/Rt/Mo? (I assume you meant Flesh of my Flesh, res chant is a monks skill) you don't need that many enchants for energy, and talk about bad choices. attunes? 2 x 4 sec cast ftl, long recharge if stripped, no utility and only synergy is that it's an enchant. brutal weapon only works if you're not enchanted, and all of those bars have enchants, and likely you'll have a real monk with enchants, negating that. plus splinter is better, and you don't need UBER ENERGEEE MANAGMENT to spam brutal and splinter.

EDIT : Also, as a side note, even if you fixed the builds and had an A/D, barrage ranger, warrior, and E or Rt... it still wouldn't be that good. doable, would work in NM and maybe some HM... but the effectiveness and synergy is in the toilet.

Athene Pwnz · Aug 20, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Wheres water attunement man !!!

Seriously that wouldnt work

Daisuko · Aug 20, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

The other problem is that once you've done glyph of immolation and steam, you've kinda hit a dead end. Reapplying burning and blind won't trigger fevered dreams again, and your bar doesn't have any other skills that cause harm. Why not at least throw on something like shatter delusions so that you can start the process over again?

I kinda think you have to scrap the fevered dreams idea, use epidemic instead, and think of some other elite that will punish conditions. But then the problem is that heroes suck at using epidemic...

They recently buffed hero AI for epidemic, and previously it wasn't terrible either, they'd just use it too often. hero AI for epidemic is fairly good.

paranon · Aug 21, 2009, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisuko

Bolded = ew.

to list...

1 melee pathfinding is generally bad, overaggro is aplenty and they don't tank well.
2 A/D is not nearly as good on a hero due to lack of Critical Agility (or any IAS to speak of)
3 Heart of the holy flame is only helpful in areas with undead.
4 res sig/healsig/ect are baed on heroes imo.
5 the ele... just... just what the eff. E/Rt/Mo? (I assume you meant Flesh of my Flesh, res chant is a monks skill) you don't need that many enchants for energy, and talk about bad choices. attunes? 2 x 4 sec cast ftl, long recharge if stripped, no utility and only synergy is that it's an enchant. brutal weapon only works if you're not enchanted, and all of those bars have enchants, and likely you'll have a real monk with enchants, negating that. plus splinter is better, and you don't need UBER ENERGEEE MANAGMENT to spam brutal and splinter.

EDIT : Also, as a side note, even if you fixed the builds and had an A/D, barrage ranger, warrior, and E or Rt... it still wouldn't be that good. doable, would work in NM and maybe some HM... but the effectiveness and synergy is in the toilet.

all fair points, in my defence it was almost midnight when i wrote that and i was almost falling asleep :P

yeah, ignore my post :P

Meridon · Aug 21, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Thanks for your replies.

Indeed, 1-4 is the main part of the combo in this hero. I'd like to note that the player really doesn't need to cause any conditions himself (maybe one could be useful). The player doesn't nessecarily need to be a ranger, I think it will probably work really well with a warrior or assasin too. The mesmer hero is pretty efficient in applying blind, burn & daze on it's own. I do indeed agree that after the 1-4 combo, the hero kindof hits a dead end. I think this is something I still need to fix.

About the attribute split, this is true, but not such a pain to be honest. Daze lasts three seconds from Fevered Dreams @ 12 Illusion magic, and any extra points in it won't really do anything, except lengthen the hex duration a bit, and boosting Fragility by 1-2 points. Water Magic @ 8 is to make blind last 8 seconds, any more points in it would only boost the damage from Steam by 1-2, which isn't worth it. Fire @ 3 is again for the good stat split, it makes the glyph last for 2 spells, with 2 secs of burning. The rest is just divided over FC and inspiration magic, hitting the general sweet spot of FC at 8, and putting enough points in inpiration to make it worthwhile.

Water attunement really isn't an option at this point, because the bar only has one water spell. I've been thinking of adding Blurred Vision, in which case it could be useful. You move like a dwarf doesn't seem too useful at this point, to be honest I'd rather use Finish Him, since it then also spreads Deep Wound and Cracked Armor, two very useful conditions.

I've been messing a bit more, and here's what I have now:

Mesmer/Elementalist
8+1 Fast Casting
10+1+1 Illusion Magic
9+1 Inspiration Magic
3 Fire Magic
9 Water Magic
0 Remaining Attribute Points.

1. Fevered Dreams
2. Fragility
3. Glyph of Immolation
4. Steam
5. Blurred Vision
6. Water Attunement
7. Drain Delusions
8. Rez

Again, attributes are split to get the best break-points in skills. Blurred Vision now lasts 8 seconds, Drain Delusions drains 4*4. I also did some maths and came to the conclusion that at this setup, it doesn't matter much energy-wise if you take Water Attunement or Power Drain in slot 6. Pdrain would probably be more useful, then again Water Attunement can be used in practically any situation.

Either way, this second version should provide the hero with more things to do after having finished casting the first 4 skills. I'm going to test this with Finish Him equipped (and possibly also You Move Like a Dwarf). I'll keep you posted. Meanwhile, feel free to give this build a go or mess around with it.

Meridon