Curse

Buns United · Nov 25, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

@IronSheik: As far as I've understood the OP's topic, he's looking for a build designed for him, his friends and heroes. Adding another Player Character wouldn't really be helpful, now would it?

Edit: heck, if you're adding Player Characters like that you could just aswell send him to PvX for a speedclear build. - But where's the fun in that???

IronSheik · Nov 25, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buns United

@IronSheik: As far as I've understood the OP's topic, he's looking for a build designed for him, his friends and heroes. Adding another Player Character wouldn't really be helpful, now would it?

Edit: heck, if you're adding Player Characters like that you could just aswell send him to PvX for a speedclear build. - But where's the fun in that???

Lol, he had an imbagon, an imbagon is a player due to you know, the pve SY skill. I simply took out the para for a sin, the para can run a frontliner build or a more damaging build instead.

There are 3 bars there with PvE skills. He specified 2 friends, para, and rit. Rest are hero-able.

Sir Cusfreak · Nov 25, 2009, 10:24 PM // 22:24

on a side note, the ER hero redbars pretty impressively. BUT never ever put one in a party with an MM.
they did buff AI in regards to infoos, but they missed a spot.

Xenomortis · Nov 25, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

on a side note, the ER hero redbars pretty impressively. BUT never ever put one in a party with an MM.
they did buff AI in regards to infoos, but they missed a spot.

They altered the AI to use Infuse more often (too much sometimes, especially when they have two other, perfectly satisfactory heals), but I've found that since then; they've refused to use Protective Spirit properly.

MercenaryKnight · Nov 26, 2009, 10:30 AM // 10:30

And even with all of those gdw dhuum will still get off quite a bit of dp. In our group even with me spamming can't touch this (note I did mess up a few chains... hey it's a long fight) we still had melee get up to -40% dp.

Lukyboy · Nov 26, 2009, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buns United

Moebius Strike hardly benefits your Jagged - Fox - DB chain, actually. It lowers your attack rate, and since you changed Judge's Insight with Strength of Honor, this would result in a loss of single target DPS and less frequent knockdowns. (But more AoE from spamming Death Blossom more often.)

Reckless Haste is pretty much wasted because you dropped Spiteful Spirit. Reckless Haste alone is a very good choice for Hard Mode, because the mobs already attack 33% faster anyway. In NM, this isn't the case. So you're benefitting less from Reckless Haste.

Good points. Will fix them

Quote:

Since you dropped Protective Spirit on the Elementalist, you could try Shelter on the Communing Ritualist because Protective Bond (with its' 2 second casting time) alone isn't going to protect you from big hits.

I actually have no experience with ER ele's. I heard about them, I've seen what they are capable of. From what I understand protective bond is only to be maintained on the ER ele itself, to fuel Ether Renewal and give some nice protection to it self, because monster will think you're a great target to eat up. I'm really not a fan of Shelter. It has its uses, but I wonder how much it is needed when I have dual SY.

Quote:

Ghostmirror Light is bad, let that get through to you. The healer isn't always going to need heals, and if he does he can't cast Ghostmirror Light on himself. So it'd be more effective to just take a 'target ally' heal, such as Spirit Transfer.

I didn't notice the 'target other ally' bit, but I do not agree with you on this point. Spirit Transfer is a power heal. I don't think I need yet another power heal (Infuse+ Spirit Light seems to be enough). A good alternative would be Soothing Memories, since the healer will be holding PwK for most of the time. The diffrence is pretty minimal if you ask me.

Quote:

Vampirism is bad, for similar reasons as the above. You're not always going to need a heal on the Communing Rit, and if you do Vampirism alone won't heal enough. It's also a relatively high energy cost for a low damage spirit, and a weak PvE-only skill.

Ofcourse Vampirism won't heal enough, thats not the point. It's in there to trigger Painful Bond. If I want a diffrent spirit on the Channeling rit, I would have to spec in communing (quite alot actually).

Quote:

Seeing how spammable your Channeling Ritualist's spirits are, Summon Spirits is wasted too. It might be decent for getting your offensive spirits out of AoE damage. But you can just aswell cast them in a relatively 'safe' spot away from your party members. This way, if the enemy AI decides to cast big AoE spells on your spirits, those big AoE spells won't be hitting you.

The reason for Summon Spirits is that the Channeling Rit has to stall 1 side of the 4 Horsemen quest long enough for the rest of the team to kill the other side (or most of it). With it and Armor of Unfeeling, we can probably buy alot more time. It could turn out that I'm wrong (It's a theorycraft still..). So it's not wasted, it has a purpose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

I typed a big long spiel and closed window, and have no will to type it again, so i remade the build to what I see would benefit it.

Not enuff hard revives.

Two frontliners with SY=Better than imba+frontliner

Too much anti melee.

Ranger had redundant skills.

Rits were bleh.

Thanks for taking the time to make this

I'm definatly taking over some elements of it.

Big thank you for all the feedback again! I will edit the OP

Riot Narita · Nov 26, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Have you figured out what happens to heroes if they die while fighting Dhuum?

As I understand it, players are turned into spirits and transported to Vale... they talk to the Mayor to return to the fight. But if heroes go back to the Vale, they can't talk to the Mayor and they're permanently gone. This could be disastrous.

If they don't go back to Vale (just drop down dead), then I guess you'll need to bring rez scrolls or UA (pre-cast before facing Dhuum) to bring them back?

Seph33 · Nov 26, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Me and a friend just beat Dhuum with heroes.
Here are some screens:

The builds probably aren't optimal (too much SS etc.) and the run took ages (about 4 1/2 hours), but it wasn't bad considering it was our first UW fullrun.
We used a total of 2 consets (could easily be done with just 1, but we didn't know Dhuum was so easy). You basically need a conset (or at least an essence) to do the 4 riders since you have to keep up spellbreaker constantly. The rest is a cakewalk, especially if you do the Ice Wastes, Chaos Planes and Bone Pits quests in succession with a conset.

Dhuum was basically a snorefest with this build as I only had to spam Great Dwarf Weapon while the warrior and Dunkoro did the rest of the job.

As for the thread starter, I'd suggest you to take at least a tank (a permasin maybe, especially if it has some form of self heal) because it makes those dreadful quests like 4 riders easy. Also, for Dhuum I'd take some mesmer interrupts (leech sig, pdrain) on the heroes because that way you'll never even see your health bars drop.

MercenaryKnight · Nov 26, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Heroes will automatically turn into the spirit version on death and teleport back to dhuum. So you can kill a hero and micro their ghost skills to spam dhuum's rest. Surprisingly a.net didn't screw over players who were gonna use heroes.

KageNoShi · Nov 27, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Interesting builds there, I may have to try heroway now since every PuG group I get into fails somewhere throughout the run.

Carboplatin · Nov 27, 2009, 03:44 AM // 03:44

nice to see it done with heroway. 4.5 hours is a bit much, but still respectable to be able to say you can.

gj!

Riot Narita · Nov 27, 2009, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Heroes will automatically turn into the spirit version on death and teleport back to dhuum. So you can kill a hero and micro their ghost skills to spam dhuum's rest. Surprisingly a.net didn't screw over players who were gonna use heroes.

Thanks for sharing this useful information.

Lukyboy · Nov 27, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seph33

As for the thread starter, I'd suggest you to take at least a tank (a permasin maybe, especially if it has some form of self heal) because it makes those dreadful quests like 4 riders easy. Also, for Dhuum I'd take some mesmer interrupts (leech sig, pdrain) on the heroes because that way you'll never even see your health bars drop.

Nicely done there. How did you do wastes?
Taking a tank was my initial idea, but after doing some mobway groups and seeing first hand what the tank has to endure, I didn't think I could do it. Now seeing you did do it (60 DP though :P) makes me question it again. I'm gonna stick with this setup, but if it fails I can do a similair tank like yours and try it that way. Mesmer rupts are pretty hard to fit in, so I'm gonna have to rely on D/Savage Shot and GDW.

Seph33 · Nov 27, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukyboy

Nicely done there. How did you do wastes?
Taking a tank was my initial idea, but after doing some mobway groups and seeing first hand what the tank has to endure, I didn't think I could do it. Now seeing you did do it (60 DP though :P) makes me question it again. I'm gonna stick with this setup, but if it fails I can do a similair tank like yours and try it that way. Mesmer rupts are pretty hard to fit in, so I'm gonna have to rely on D/Savage Shot and GDW.

We cleared 3 areas first (Wastes, Chaos Planes and Bone Pits) and then breezed through the 3 quests with a conset. As for wastes, I basically tanked the reaper's side, while the war and the rest of the heroes killed the dryders on King Frozenwind's side and then came to me to kill the rest. The tanking was actually quite easy, although the wastes are a bit tricky because I couldn't use spellbreaker (the dryders wouldn't to enough damage to trigger Spirit Bond if I did), so I just had to endure all those meteor showers.

Oh, and the 60 DP came from Dhuum's nasty touch skill, which I didn't really pay too much attention to in the end.

Fuzzy Taco · Nov 29, 2009, 08:15 AM // 08:15

A few friends and I have been developing a team build with some heroes for UW, and it hasn't been totally successful yet, so I won't bother posting the templates as they are at the moment.

I will just share some random priorities, ideas, etc. we've tossed around talking about Dhuum. First and foremost, as you've captured in each revision of your team, Spirits are going to be pretty key to the clear. They provide a slightly haphazard offense (it's powerful with Painful Bond, just a little erratic due to targeting mechanics), a wall of bodies, defense (talking about Communing), and they offer a character slot that can be used, at least in part, for utility.

Naturally, like every other UW theorycrafter, we're collectively petrified of 4 Horsemen. After the instinctive dread dissipates a little, we start thinking like you thought - I also think that a bunch of Armor-of-Unfeeling'd spirits will be able to retard the onslaught of at least two of the Dhuum Bros, especially if you dispatch a monk or something to keep the spirits from getting mercilessly squished. Our other idea was just to play it off the Reaper, employing an ER ele to superspam prots and Infuse on him. Does he have enough health for this to work? Because frankly, I think we can nuke one side really quickly, so maybe we could just force him to survive a double-sided attack for a little bit and clear one side at a time.

Lastly comes the fight with Dhuum. I think this really won't be a tremendous deal, just an arduous one with a couple really important focal points: Reaper maintenance and good ol' fashioned efficiency. It's obvious that the Reapers need to stay alive, which is no big deal - prot the ones that are going to get hit, heal, continue. Spam Heal Party and stuff for his AoE "attack". Remember how to monk. More importantly regarding time, the damaging bits of the party need to be aware and attack proactively - frontliners just need to be quick so that they can deal as much damage as is physically possible, and any offensive spirit users need to bring their spirits around to where Dhuum decides to pop up. Watching a couple videos of Dhuum battles that took under 25 minutes, I noticed how fast they were getting in a groove of dealing damage to Dhuum the second he appeared, and that paid off when his Rest bar filled up and they had to finally take him down.

Last but not least, careful about DP on heroes - Tahlk's allergic to candy canes, and can't use them, so I've busted out my stacks of clovers from yesteryear for some party-wide DP relief.

/boring

noob-lord · Nov 29, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

well, its possible with heros in an acceptable time, me and a friend did uw with dhuum in 2:06, 1:43 for the normal quests

it looks very strange, but well, it worked

we used a conset for 4 horseman+icy wastes and aslo one for dhuum.

4 horseman:
first we placed the spirits on the west side, then we flagged the heros around the reaper, the players were on the east side but still in range of heros
i just made the thunderclap ele to take care about the west side and microed the meteor swarm.
we nearly died, but still did it.

more explanations can be found here, but just in german, because my english isnt that well (well, i think you already recognized it ^^)

wotah · Nov 29, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Impressive

Lukyboy · Nov 30, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by noob-lord

well, its possible with heros in an acceptable time, me and a friend did uw with dhuum in 2:06, 1:43 for the normal quests

it looks very strange, but well, it worked

we used a conset for 4 horseman+icy wastes and aslo one for dhuum.

A build that doesn't rely on Earthbind to beat Dhuum, very good. Did you have any trouble with him? Could your healers keep up with his AoE damage?

noob-lord · Nov 30, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

no problems with dhuum, most things got rupted and the damage was not that big because of SY! and conset
just his touch made us to use Pumpkin Cookies (around 45) and Honeycombs (around 12) but well, we didnt now that Heros will come as spirits so if you let some specific heros die, probably hero 1 and perhaps hero 2 and the N/Mo after u already got him near to death, his bar will fill more speedly, so you wont get that much touches, but not testet at the moment