Curse

MercenaryKnight · Dec 25, 2009, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Lately I have been trying to think a lot about multi purpose hero teams. The usual racway, arkfenway, sabway and discordway is what usually comes to mind.

There are pros and cons to each build but it seems like out of all of them the physical style builds are inferior (from the heroes use) than the caster builds.

The use of racway is pretty limited and unless you use an imbagon or have good healers you can run into trouble in most hard mode areas. There isn't much change you can use to most builds it's basically all ranged physicals + support. Where as most of the caster builds can be loaded with just about any utility you may need.

With arkfenway, general aoe (if noone runs up and aggros) can get more spirits demolished at start. Also relies a lot on spirit damage unless your going to run like 2 high dps melee/ ranged chars. Definitely need an aggro gatherer to keep spirits alive for most of the harder aoe battles.

Sabway is a decent all around, though heroes use of spiteful spirit causes a lack of damage from that main part. It's basically a pressure build relying on damage from multiple sources which isn't that bad. But the spiteful spirit elite for a hero generally ends up being a waste since that target will be spiked usually.

Then of course everyone loves and hates discordway. It is easy c-space 1234 ap caller spike. Just prime a condition and a hex, spike, rinse and repeat. It is boring but effective and heroes can manage to use it well and have many utility spots to slap on.

I keep trying to think about how effective big physical groups are when you run them with other people. But it just doesn't seem like we can get that great effective build done with heroes. Melee heroes basically just will run around half the time if we switch targets. You could try running some spear chucker rangers or other ranged physicals but heroes still will usually lack some good physical dps.

I run with a paragon and if an area is hard I will bring my imbagon build to make it tons easier. But it just seems like for most general effectiveness discord/ caster builds constantly outshine any physical team based hero builds.

I was hoping that this thread would get some discussion going so there will be less "my char is x what heroes should I run". If we talk about the general usage of most of the "well known hero teams" then they may see the thread and pick and choose for their own.

upier · Dec 25, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I'd probably go with an SoS spirit spammer and an ER protter as the core with the third slot wasted on what your character needs.

IronSheik · Dec 25, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

On any of my melee characters I run the basic same setup. (Usually using a scythe)

And that is to amplify all damage that I do.

I bring a SoS Hero with r10/12 Judge's Insight+Strength of Honor and a Level 14+ splinter weapon

I then run some type of curse hero with weaken armor, MoP and optionally Barbs.
This doesn't have to be a necro though, I've ran it on paragons to rits.

Third is a general tease/fevered/AoD mesmer. Prevents large pressure with Shadow wep and AoE rupts.

maxxfury · Dec 25, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

I bring a SoS Hero with r10/12 Judge's Insight+Strength of Honor and a Level 14+ splinter weapon

I then run some type of curse hero with weaken armor, MoP and optionally Barbs.

Eep! Drop Judges insight asap....nullifies mop and orders!

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 25, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I use this setup for most areas:
MM (+MoP/Barbs for physicals; proto/hex removal otherwise)
ER healer
SoS Rit (+SoH for melee)

I prefer this setup over Discord/Sab/Rac. It works best with melee since you can get SoH and the Rit hero will spam Splinter on you (MoP+ Barbs are bonuses...I don't bother microing them so they aren't as noticeable as the Splinter spam).

I don't like discord because an ER hero easily out-heals/protos anything the necros can do.

I like Sabway a bit better, but it has the same healing problem (necro healers are inferior to ele healers) and SS seems wasted on heros.

MercenaryKnight · Dec 26, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Everyone can feel free to post more than 3 heroes (incase some might find a friend to tag along). My guess is that using the generic MM+ ER+ SoS heroes along with a triple discord 1 ap caller and 1 save yourselves spammer/ high dps physical would be a really good set up.

Also I am curious as to what your ER heroes skill choices are. Since for the most part I haven't had much luck with mine acting very good (may have been cause vekk was on passive).

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 26, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Everyone can feel free to post more than 3 heroes (incase some might find a friend to tag along). My guess is that using the generic MM+ ER+ SoS heroes along with a triple discord 1 ap caller and 1 save yourselves spammer/ high dps physical would be a really good set up.

Also I am curious as to what your ER heroes skill choices are. Since for the most part I haven't had much luck with mine acting very good (may have been cause vekk was on passive).

I use this on my ER: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Sub mit+Query

Set on passive too. I've seen heroes forget to put ER on because they were busy wanding.

In an 8-man team, the players should run 2 physicals or 1 physical + MoP; although most other things would still work. As for the other player's heroes, they probably want to bring 1 healer and the other two as damage/utility (e.g. mm+hex removal, spirits, orders, extra copies of PS, etc.).

If you are going to spam SY! then a paragon hero may also be useful since they use Blazing Finale and They're On Fire pretty well (plus some other useful shouts/chants and another source of physical damage).

IronSheik · Dec 26, 2009, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Eep! Drop Judges insight asap....nullifies mop and orders!

MoP is on one target and this is in H/H Pve where things are rarely bunched. Judge's Isn't on me 24/7 and AoHM for my scythe adds more than orders/Barbs. Weaken armor is the only important skill for slash n bash

MercenaryKnight · Dec 26, 2009, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Yeah I was mainly looking at the additional slots if you use the MM+ER+SoS setup. The healer could still be a discord hero (just cause with your heroes and physical char you should have a condition and hex) so if the hero has no healing to do they can throw some extra damage.

Then most utilities can be put on extra discord characters or whatever fancies your characters. My problem is even running an orders character (when you really only have like 2 physicals) don't really add on more damage than running some extra discord heroes who can bring more utilities.

I will most likely make a half discord half balanced hero build and see if it outperforms my boring old 6 discord group.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 26, 2009, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Well if you are using physicals and you have SoH, Splinter, MoP, Barbs, and Orders, you will be killing stuff way faster than discord could ever do.

MercenaryKnight · Dec 26, 2009, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Well the main problem is you can't really run a ton of physical heroes. I also usually only do pve with my paragon so it's not like I would have the high dps of a w/d or msdb sin. Melee hero ai horribly fails for the most part as well. Can't switch targets or they keep running back and forth.

So for the most part it ends up being a ton of buffers and 1-2 physical human players if your lucky. I was considering maybe trying to make some beastmaster r/p spear chuckers for physical heroes. But I still have a feeling they won't be doing great damage.

So my main thing was still running physical buffers besides maybe the orders and soh since i'd be throwing spears and then the discords will just be additional. Since you can still run 2 discord heroes with the same buffs you'd need anyway.

I just wish we could actually run w/d, d/x or moebius assassin heroes and they could pump out the same damage as a human.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 26, 2009, 06:08 AM // 06:08

I didn't mean AI physicals.

2 players dealing physical damage with all those buffs will kill very fast.

MercenaryKnight · Dec 26, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Yeah that would be best if you had 2 physical humans who can dish out good damage. I usually run with a mesmer friend and I title hunt on my paragon. So it's unfortunately not that good for me but if others are doing pve with physical humans it'd be a great team build.

I will most likely focus on a split between like discord and arkfenway since I would have a caster friend and I would just run imbagon for defense.

My problem is currently as I try to think about stuff a pure discordway team (if ran with a spirit spammer human and an ap caller) may be some of the highest damage.

Although I have concerns about speeding it up (since I hate having to wait for death nova even though it does dish out 100 damage and is great). My one attempt would be to get rid of a "dedicated mm" and no death nova then just throw shambling horrors on 4 of the 6 necros (healers wouldn't have it).

I love the damage that death nova adds, but a lot of the time it can be problematic trying to run across or aggro a group without minions. Also, if there is no more minion bomber spamming death nova he could basically be a discord protector. Spamming protective spirit, aegis, spirit bond and soa stuff. Which would basically be an er hero but with the extra damage from discord.

Bobby2 · Jan 03, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Jora deserves playtime!

Scythe version
WE
Power Attack
Vic Sweep
Dis Strike
Dis Blow
BoA
Rush (micro)
Res sig

Sword/axe version
WE
Power Attack
Savage/Dismember
Dis Strike/Ago
Dis Blow
BoA
Storm Djinn's Haste @3
Res sig

Slap on SoH and/or GDW and gooooooooo!

OK so it's for fun and epicness. But at least somewhat effective.

tlee · Jan 30, 2010, 05:41 AM // 05:41

for PVE, i usually make all my heroes the same class... my main is a warrior.

I've made them all into ranger and warriors(using warrior henchies too) and i can run through the game pretty easy..

For all warriors(all swords equipped with hundred blades), I would me a W/N with well of blood and power using axe... With 5-6 warriors jumping 1 mob and then cast well of power.. repeat it with WOB.. killing mobs was super quick

For rangers, I was a W/R, of course... Everyone equipped with max bows... half were equiped with barrage and half with poison arrow/ignite arrow and some others.. Pretty cool..

I tried all mesmer once and it was cool too, but not as effective since mesmers are usually interrupters/drainers..

FoxBat · Jan 30, 2010, 05:57 AM // 05:57

I'd think of it more as "what the heck are your henchmen doing." They all more or less suck at doing damage, so I usually take 2 warriors and 2 monks. That's enough for me to play around with SoH and Dwarf Weapon to get something out of the henches, while heroes do the nec or rit thing.

HigherMinion · Jan 30, 2010, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Well I play as a Mark of Pain nuker; not your discord caller twoddle

My heroes are *generally* as followed:

E/Mo hero

Infuse, Prot Spirit, Spirit Bond, Reversal of Fortune, Shield Guardian, Aegis, Aura of Rest, Ether Renewal.

N/P Fail Back Minion Bomber

Aura Of The Lich, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Fall Back, We Shall Return, Masochism, SoLS.

N/Rt OoV/Weapon

Order Of The Vampire, Mark Of Fury, Well Of Blood/Strip Enchantment(depends), Nightmare, splinter and Warmonger weapons, SoLS, Flesh of My Flesh.

Lusciious · Jan 30, 2010, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Well I play as a Mark of Pain nuker; not your discord caller twoddle

My heroes are *generally* as followed:

E/Mo hero

Infuse, Prot Spirit, Spirit Bond, Reversal of Fortune, Shield Guardian, Aegis, Aura of Rest, Ether Renewal.

N/P Fail Back Minion Bomber

Aura Of The Lich, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Fall Back, We Shall Return, Masochism, SoLS.

N/Rt OoV/Weapon

Order Of The Vampire, Mark Of Fury, Well Of Blood/Strip Enchantment(depends), Nightmare, splinter and Warmonger weapons, SoLS, Flesh of My Flesh.

similar to what i use .

i use a SoS hybrid (with heals) instead . might swap it for another MM .

how are your MM builds ?

HigherMinion · Jan 30, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

similar to what i use .

i use a SoS hybrid (with heals) instead . might swap it for another MM .

how are your MM builds ?

Do you mean if they are any good or not? If they weren't, I wouldn't be using them ;-) I used to use OoU in place of AotL, but it makes raising minions so much faster with AotL.

Lusciious · Jan 30, 2010, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Do you mean if they are any good or not? If they weren't, I wouldn't be using them ;-) I used to use OoU in place of AotL, but it makes raising minions so much faster with AotL.

why ootv ?

isnt aotl's recharge very long ? why do you like it then ?

also, does ootv affect minions ?

what is the purpose of fallback really ? general IMS to get from places to places quickly or do you rely on it as a kind of healing ? seeing how fallback "Ends for an ally if that ally hits with an attack." i guess it's only for healing casters then ? o.o

also, you know that heroes only cast AotL after it has expired right ? o.o check wikipedia entry .