Curse

Fox Reeveheart · Oct 25, 2010, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I really want to use this LEAST represented class. While the dervish is probably the worst class right now, I feel the paragon is the least SEEN class. So I am deciding to give the beautiful Hayda some love with hero armor and some equipment... but wait.. I don't know where to start! I have full char slots currently and have never played a para.

So as far as builds for her, do you find yourself using motivation more or command more? Doesn't seem like you can run that imba-thing with a para hero. So what else is there?

I checked pvx, found ONE build under the "great" category, and that was kinda it.

Kojima · Oct 25, 2010, 06:39 AM // 06:39

This would be a post I would like to follow.

I stopped playing my para for a while but i have a mix of both. Not the greatest build but I noticed she is one that never died! So anything good to put on her would be greeat

Life Bringing · Oct 25, 2010, 07:05 AM // 07:05

I would probably end up with Command simply because Fall Back is in the command line. Mot doesn't really have anything i would consider worth bringing compared to other options.

Note that paragon heroes aren't really worth it in the first place, so if you're running one for shits and gigs it doesnt make a huge amount of difference which attribute line you decide to go with.

Ratman · Oct 25, 2010, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I mostly use the command line.
A lot of times i´m taking a para hero to support my char if i´m going physical.
Normaly I take a mix of damage buffs and defencive support.

At the moment I tent to run something like this:

P/W
Command 12+1+3
Leadership 8+1
Tactics 10

Soldier's Fury [E]
Anthem of Envy
Anthem of Weakness
"Go For Their Eyes!"
"Find Their Weakness!"
"Stand Your Ground!"
"Shields Up!"
Signet of Return

Some nice damage boosts and the extra defence is always handy.

LONGA · Oct 25, 2010, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Paragon is only kickass if you run certain team build.If you are hammer warrior or ranger who use bow attack.Command paragon is use to give nice overall attack boost.

onerabbit · Oct 25, 2010, 09:57 AM // 09:57

The only trouble is you can go /P and still use the same skills to buff your party, and use the primary for better skills.

NerfHerder · Oct 25, 2010, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Its unfortunate, but the only time I can fit a motivation paragon hero is when I use my imbagon with a command paragon. Which is basically Racway. The synergy between them is amazing. Its just a shame I have to use Henchmen with Racway most of the time.

A Command Paragon hero can be used to help spread conditions(weakness and burning) and criticals("Go for the Eyes!" a must have an almost any Paragon) in a physicals team. Personally, I like "Stand your Ground!" as well. Its maintainable and counteracts the -20ar from Soldiers Fury(also provides a cover shout) or AR. It also provides some damage mitigation when the condition is met. The use of "Theyre on Fire!" + "SYG!" on a squishy Searing Flames team can also be useful. However, with only 3 heros, the amount of support they offer isnt enough to justify use vs superior hero builds.

My prediction is that hero Paragons will become much more popular once 7 heros is added. And even more so once Paragon skills are updated. Except for my Racway team I rarely use paragon heros at all. But, when we can start to use 7 heros I will use a Command Paragon on all my physical characters(Sin, War, Derv, Para, and Ranger) along with an Orders/Smite hero. And probably a "ToF!" Hero Paragon on my Ele.

I would use something like what ratman posted, but go full paragon skills.

With runes I have 8+1 Spear, 11+1 Leadership, and 11+2+1 Command. I would also recommend Centurions insignia and furious spear mod.

Anthem of Weariness
Anthem of Flame
Spear of Lightning
"Go for the Eyes!"
Anthem of Envy
Soldier's Fury
"Stand Your Ground!"
(optional) "Fall Back!", "Find Thier Weakness!", "Theyre on Fire!", or Signet of Return

I would post PvX wiki build thats easy to copy, but they seem to be having some difficulties

drkn · Oct 25, 2010, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

(also provides a cover shout)

Since when one needs cover shouts?

The only time i used para heroes was when i did 2man Mallyx. No imbagon in the team. One was a motigon with additional ele wards, the other used spear to pump out some damage (used Splinter Weapon on a rit hero) and Angelic Bond to help avoid dying. They were great there since we couldn't use any enchantments or hexes, but shouts and chants proved enough.

MArcSinus · Oct 25, 2010, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by onerabbit

The only trouble is you can go /P and still use the same skills to buff your party, and use the primary for better skills.

This, I like to use hybrids with 3 paragon command shouts.

I find the command like shouts like "Fall Back!" and "Stand Your Ground" very handy. Motivation is pretty meh imo.

Oh btw I do run my own variant of racway on my paragon that's awesome.

aspi · Oct 25, 2010, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I'm gonna try the kway build that was posted on the paragon part of the forum. Just because I am not very far with my para and I want to try and finish the games with it. But I'll wait untill the 7 heroes will be implemented, much better than the usual henchmen.

NerfHerder · Oct 25, 2010, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Since when one needs cover shouts?

Soldier's Fury- Elite Echo. For 10...30...35 seconds, if you are under the effects of a chant or a shout, you attack 33% faster and gain 33% more adrenaline, but you have -20 armor.

I prefer Soldier's Fury over Aggressive Refrain on my command heros. Simply for the fact that you dont have to micro the skill. However, on my Racway variant team I use AR in order use another Elite. Side note, before the Paragon PvP nerf Soldiers Fury was very popular(in GvG I think). It used two Paragons to keep themselves covered with shouts in order to fuel Soldiers Fury.

Khomet Si Netjer · Oct 25, 2010, 11:58 AM // 11:58

The basic problem with paragons is that they are underpowered in general, so the only real way to make them effective is to have an entire team of them so that their synergy is strong. If you are going to use a paragon I'd say that you need to focus on things the paragon can do that no one else can match. For a paragon player this is basically Imbagon, but there are a few options for heroes. Here is one that I use.

P/E
Fire Magic 12
Leadership 12+1+1 (or higher, if you are willing to sacrifice health)
Motivation 3+1

1 = Searing Flames
2 = Fire Storm
3 = Meteor
4 = Glowing Signet
5 = Glyph of Lesser Energy
6 = Fire Attunement
7 = "They're on Fire!"
8 = Energizing Chorus

This combines decent offensive power with party-wide damage resistance similar to TNTF. No other profession can do this because they do not have Leadership. This works best when combined with other characters who can cause Burning, especially Searing Flames elementalists. If you have melee characters replace one of the fire skills with Blazing Finale.

Before anyone asks... this works in hard mode and energy is fine.

agrios · Oct 25, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Atm, Im only using Para heroes to help me running tru the maps: basically its "Incoming"
+ "Fallback" . Two paras help A LOT in the last section of Mustering a Response (WiK quest)

Since we are stuck, untill now, with only 3 heroes, Paragons are easily outmatched by Nukers, MMs, SoS and resto Healers. Maybe when 7 becomes an option, I will give Para heroes a try.

Bandwagon · Oct 25, 2010, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Overall Command seems to have the most going for it. Motivation is too limited in scope (however Finale of Restoration in a para-team is OP).

Unfortunately Command Para's don't offer enough utility to warrant a hero slot when you have crazy meta builds like minion bombers, SoS+ splinter, SoH smiters, etc etc that offer plenty of utility + powerful damage / support options.

Once / If 7 man Hero teams are available, paras will definitely be useful because then you can sync your entire team to benefit greatly from the command / motivation buffs, thus validating the paragon's presence. Until then, Racway (paragon Primary) is the only real use of a paragon.

If you are using a physical primary + paragon(s), bring an orders hero; +15 (Order of Pain) party wide damage and bonus adrenaline (Dark Fury / Mark of Fury) is pretty OP even in H/H when utilizing no physical henchies.

Xenomortis · Oct 25, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Motivation is pathetic. The recharges on the chants are too long to be worth the slot and the finales are of questionable worth.
Command at least has something going for it with GFTE, SYG, Fallback and Envy. I don't care for IJAFW and "The Power is Yours" is only good for triggering the finales (meh).

If you insist on a paragon, stick to Leadership, Command and Spear Mastery.

Necromas · Oct 25, 2010, 06:16 PM // 18:16

There aren't many paragon skills that are useful in PvE on a hero. Generally stay away from motivation entirely unless you're setting up a very specific synergy and give spear mastery a low priority. Leadership is of course important even if you don't use any of it's skills, to maintain enegry.

Leadership:
"They're on Fire!" - Quite possibly the best reason to take a paragon with you, if you have SF eles this means maintainable ~30% damage reduction on the whole party for one skill slot.
Aggressive Refrain - It's 33% more adrenaline. Downside sucks though.
Anthem of Flame - 28-42 damage on whatever you light up.
Signet of Return - Non-spell hard res
Soldier's Fury - Double adrenaline gain vs. no IAS, again the downside kind of sucks though.

Command:
"Can't Touch This!" - Useful in specific areas and if your party uses skills that require being under the effect of a shout
"Fall Back!" - Saves travel time and can help kiting
"Go for the Eyes!" - Lots of damage (for the cost) if you have lots of physicals, can chain with skills based on crits.
"Incoming!" - If you have a need for your party to be under constant IAS, this and Fall Back! or another incoming paragon are the way to do it.
"Stand Your Ground!" - Nice damage mitigation.
Anthem of Envy - Nice damage if you have a lot of physicals.
Anthem of Weariness - Nice damage mitigation.

Spear Mastery:
Barbed Spear - If you have a reason to spam bleeding.
Blazing Spear - Damage.
Chest Thumper - Combo with cracked armor for spammy deep wound.
Spear of Lightning - Damage, only use if you have enough energy to use it on recharge.

Two important things to note are that spirits benefit from the effects of anthems (the spirit attacks are attack skills) and minions benefit from the effects of "Go for the Eyes!" (although on average it's like 7-8 extra damage per minion, it's still a lot if there are a dozen minions). So even if you only have 2 or 3 physicals it would still be a good idea to bring a paragon if you have a spirit spammer and minion master.

Even in a party without physicals, "They're on Fire!" can be a good enough reason alone to bring a paragon if you can spam burning with something like Searing Flames.

Paragon players are far more useful than paragon heroes because they can use "There's Nothing to Fear!" and of course "Save Yourselves!".

JimmyTyme · Oct 25, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I used to use a moti build awhile back I found it to be AMAZING for party-heals, with a bit of party-wide energy boosts, with a few tactic's shouts to protect the party a bit, granted that was a long time ago

the skills i believe are:
signet of synergy
mending refrain
Ballad of Restoration
Song of Restoration
Aria of Zeal
"Watch Yourself!"
"Shield's Up" <- Might consider replacing this for FGJ or another skill you find more useful (situationaly dependent)
Signet of Return

I don't recall what the attribute spread was..