Curse

Madeentje · Apr 09, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Isn't Mark of fury a little redundant with all that adrenaline already flowing around.
Also why do you use vampiric spirit, icy veins has lots of damage + aoe...

DarkSpirit · Apr 09, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimitjeeuuhh

Isn't Mark of fury a little redundant with all that adrenaline already flowing around.

Not really. The hero doesn't always cast Dark Fury like clock-work especially when being attacked or chased around. Remember the strongest defense this build has is SY! from the Paragon character, in this sense it has a single point of failure so having the adrenaline pumping consistently is important.

Quote:

Also why do you use vampiric spirit, icy veins has lots of damage + aoe...

Rac's D/N is able to self heal since DF and OOP both require a hefty life sacrifice, my N/Rt can't which is why I tried vampiric spirit to reduce the pressure from monks. Left to herself, the hero tends to only cast vampiric spirit when she is low on hp, so some manual micro-management would help.

By the way, Rac's posted necro builds use Icy Veins but he was still tweaking them:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=126

..he also uses Blood Renewal for self heal. I dont really like Blood Renewal on a hero as they tend to over sac themselves but you can try that if you prefer.

randomperson · Apr 09, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycore

No, looks like your reading comprehension is wrong.

This particular team build as mentioned by the poster above me does not work vs certain enemy groups they can counter most if not all of the damage making the entire setup useless.

And PI is very invaluable with taking down elementalists and the crystal desert is crawling with them.

Warriors with riposte and shield stance shouldn't be a problem because as a physical team, you should be attacking the casters.

PS and RoF are far less of a problem to physical teams than caster teams, because you wouldn't expect to be attacking for huge chunks of damage at a time.

Pain inverter is nice to blow something up (although you say this isn't happening anyway) every 20 seconds, but I'd rather take the ward and have my whole team hit for +15~.

Finally, what wasn't mentioned was SoD on the monks... but this can be easily solved by target switching. Your physicals are ranged and it's the easiest prot in the game to see put on a target.

DarkSpirit · Apr 09, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomperson

Warriors with riposte and shield stance shouldn't be a problem because as a physical team, you should be attacking the casters.

PS and RoF are far less of a problem to physical teams than caster teams, because you wouldn't expect to be attacking for huge chunks of damage at a time.

Pain inverter is nice to blow something up (although you say this isn't happening anyway) every 20 seconds, but I'd rather take the ward and have my whole team hit for +15~.

Finally, what wasn't mentioned was SoD on the monks... but this can be easily solved by target switching. Your physicals are ranged and it's the easiest prot in the game to see put on a target.

Physical teams can have a higher DPS than caster teams and I think Rac's default build has good damage. The problem with physical teams is there are many ways to shut them down.

SoD has a short recharge, target switching may help alittle but it is a far cry from being "easily solved" especially when you have PS and RoF too. Switching target also forces you to switch away from the monk, so it runs counter to your first sentence and allows them to heal/regen back your damage.

In other words, I still think that having enchant removal would be more effective in this situation.

randomperson · Apr 09, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Yeah, some strips would be good. After all, this is build wars and PvE is certainly easier to buildwars

.

I don't think that you should have to switch to attacking warriors if the monk SoD's themselves though, unless you've already killed some of the group.

Racthoh · Apr 09, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycore

Tried this out vanqing in tyria, doesn;t work so well vs losaru with the healers. Even 3 vs 6 the damage output is so low the losaru healer can outheal all the damage done.

Works great vs the hydra though but so frustrating when you cant put a 4 legs down even with the target pain inverted.

I haven't vanquished all of Tyria just yet (crystal desert, ascalon and the snake's dance trek to go) so I haven't had a chance to go against the Losaru groups just yet. Although it does sound like hexes would be a stronger approach. The other option would just be to constantly change targets whenever SoD goes up, unless the groups are composing entirely of Bladehands and Lifebands. But really that would be too much of a hassle, casters would be stronger.

EDIT: I started to vanquish, router died so I couldn't finish but one Spear Swipe on Hayda instead of Mending Refrain (the 15 seconds annoys me) and it was pretty easy.

natural sugar · Apr 14, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

I didn't see any codes in the thread, so here are the codes for the builds:

[build name="SY! Player" prof=P/W Leadership=11+1 Command=6+1 Motivation=0+1 SpearMastery=12+1+1][Vicious Attack][Swift Javelin][Focused Anger]["For Great Justice!"]["There's Nothing to Fear!"]["Save Yourselves!" (Kurzick)][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Aggressive Refrain][/build]

[build name="Orders" prof=D/N Mysticism=10+1+1 WindPrayers=11+1 BloodMagic=10][Arcane Zeal][Dark Fury][Order of Pain][Mystic Healing][Vow of Piety][Watchful Intervention][Faithful Intervention][Dwayna's Touch][/build]

[build name="Morgahn Main" prof=P/W Leadership=10+2 Command=8+1 Motivation=0+1 SpearMastery=12+1+1][Blazing Spear][Vicious Attack][Stunning Strike][Anthem of Envy][Anthem of Flame][Hexbreaker Aria][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]

[build name="Morgahn Hex" prof=P/Mo Leadership=10+2 Command=8+1 Motivation=0+1 SpearMastery=12+1+1][Blazing Spear][Wild Throw][Swift Javelin][Anthem of Flame][Hexbreaker Aria][Empathic Removal][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]

[build name="Morgahn 4-Man" prof=P/W Leadership=10+2 Command=8+1 Motivation=0+1 SpearMastery=12+1+1][Blazing Spear][Vicious Attack][Spear Swipe][Anthem of Envy][Anthem of Flame][Angelic Bond][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]

[build name="Hayda Main" prof=P/W Leadership=11+1 Command=0+1 Motivation=10+1+1 SpearMastery=10+1][Wild Throw][Spear of Redemption][Merciless Spear][Aria of Zeal][Song of Purification][Mending Refrain][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]

[build name="Hayda Hex" prof=P/Mo Leadership=11+1 Command=0+1 Motivation=10+1+1 SpearMastery=10+1][Wild Throw][Merciless Spear][Hexbreaker Aria][Aria of Zeal][Empathic Removal][Mending Refrain][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]

I've only really tried Morgahn's main build (which seems okay), still checking out the others on my paragon and warrior.

Coloneh · Apr 15, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

plz plz plz add that (^^) to the op!

Racthoh · Apr 15, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Added, thanks Natural Sugar.

MercenaryKnight · Apr 15, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Might want to change out the mending refrain and probably hexbreaker aria if you found that they are kind of obsolete.

Super Igor · Apr 17, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

not really...

~Super Igor

~

zling · Apr 20, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

what about people like me who dont have EotN? I have all the other campaigns.
is it possible to adjust this build?
I wont have 2 Paragons nor Ebon Standard of Honour. that's all I seem to be missing. oh and a few spear attacks maybe but that isnt a biggie...
wondering which hero could replace Hayda.
also could I run a different SY spammer like Warrior or Dervish instead of the Paragon? or perhaps but SY on my Ranger

shru · Apr 20, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

also could I run a different SY spammer like Warrior or Dervish instead of the Paragon? or perhaps but SY on my Ranger

[SY Derv;OgGjUNpMLTGFNXxgygibXFxX9gA][build name="SY War" prof=W/P swordsmanship=12+1+1 strength=12+1][Dragon Slash][brawling Headbutt][Steelfang slash][Save yourselves][flail][for great justice][enduring harmony][sunspear rebirth signet][/build]
and for ranger, idk, this should work well:[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12+1+1 expertise=12+1][Barrage][distracting shot][Save yourselves][Triple Shot][dual shot][for great justice][dwarven stability][lightning reflexes][/build]
with no EotN maybe these->
[build name="SY War" prof=W/P swordsmanship=12+1+1 strength=12+1][Dragon Slash][Save yourselves][flail][enraging charge][lion's comfort][for great justice][enduring harmony][sunspear rebirth signet][/build][build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12+1+1 expertise=12+1][Barrage][distracting shot][Save yourselves][Triple Shot][dual shot][for great justice][flail][sunspear rebirth signet][/build]

toying around with ranger again:
[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12+1 expertise=12+1+1][distracting shot][Save yourselves][Triple Shot][dual shot][flail][expert's dexterity][for great justice][sunspear rebirth signet][/build]
edit: looked like it just might work on paper, but I wasn't able to handle energy cost. Even through careful use of skills and zealous bow I found myself just using just triple shot and d shot. I'll have to drop dual shot for another skill, going to go test some out now.

Richardt · Apr 20, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

I would use rapid fire with BHA if you wanted to spam SY! on a ranger.

XDeadboltX · Apr 20, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

toying around with ranger again:
[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12+1 expertise=12+1+1][distracting shot][Save yourselves][Triple Shot][dual shot][flail][expert's dexterity][for great justice][sunspear rebirth signet][/build]

I use [prepared shot] to counter the energy cost on my ranger. [needling shot] isnt bad either for some quick adrenaline since it only costs 2 adren. I use it while triple and dual are recharging, instead of the res. [rapid fire] preparation instead of flail, or [Expert Focus]

shru · Apr 20, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by XDeadboltX

I use [prepared shot] to counter the energy cost on my ranger. [needling shot] isnt bad either for some quick adrenaline since it only costs 2 adren. I use it while triple and dual are recharging, instead of the res. [rapid fire] preparation instead of flail, or [Expert Focus]

Dual and Triple shot are not energy intensive by themselves with a good investment in expertise, but the point of that build was to use Expert's Dexterity to be able to spam them with a 3 second recharge. That with dark fury and FGJ means a perma SY with relative ease.

But the problem I face is that with Expert’s Dexterity, the only energy skill I can use on my bar becomes triple shot. (It costs 11 energy at 14 exp, and 8 with a zealous bow) Spamming that every 3-4 seconds ends up at costing 4-6 energy regen, throwing that build completely out the window.

The Barrage build, on the other hand, does work with a zealous bow, and can maintain SY fairly effectively. And I've been toying with other various ideas, but as far as I can see, with atleast 13 in expertise, a build that has [skill]Triple shot[/skill] [skill]dual shot[/skill] [skill]FGJ[/skill] [skill]dark fury[/skill] should be able to maintain SY as a ranger.

Edit:
After toying around, this build wrecks with Racthoh's hero setup:[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12+1 expertise=12+1][distracting shot][Save yourselves][Triple Shot][dual shot][Glass Arrows][for great justice][dwarven stability][lightning reflexes][/build]There's no energy problems (I used a zealous bow, but it works with vamp too), the damage is great, SY is up 95% of the time (enemies dodging can screw you, so pick a target that's not likely to move much), and it has decent survivability being in the midline with Lightning Reflexes up 2/3 of the time.

Racthoh · Apr 21, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

what about people like me who dont have EotN? I have all the other campaigns.

To the posters above this means anything suggested should probably not use EOTN skills, not just PvE only skills.

Quote:

is it possible to adjust this build?

Losing the second paragon hurts because it is a powerful profession, in addition to losing the ebon battle standard. In that spot I'd use either a Broadhead Arrow ranger, curses necro (Weaken Armor and Barbs helps the loss from EBSHonor), or even just a warrior/dervish hero. Melee heroes can work, just not that well in areas with lots of AoE or really big mobs that risk bodyblocking the idiots.

DarkSpirit · Apr 22, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Although I like this team build, I am still considering replacing one of the Paragon heroes, with Sab's MM. Don't minions synergize with Paragon shouts to provide more energy back too? Besides all that body blocking and damage soaking goodness?

I also like Gfte which should affect minions too. Maybe a MM with some points into curse would be useful.

Richardt · Apr 22, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

As far as I know only GtfE affects minions.

Most of the other paragon shouts trigger when you use a skill.

DarkSpirit · Apr 22, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

As far as I know only GtfE affects minions.

Most of the other paragon shouts trigger when you use a skill.

Also, wouldn't the energy returned from Paragon shouts be greater? With more energy, you can also use TNTF more often right?

Being able to use TNTF more often, would be the main purpose of throwing in a MM+Gfte. The side benefits are also nice.

Furthermore, if you have Barbs, Weaken Armor, or Splinter Weapon from among your heroes, wouldn't those help the minions too as well as yourself as a paragon?