Curse

Godrik Gandolfi · Jun 06, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Playing through NF the other day, we had a mission which required us to take Koss and Melonni along. Like the other melee heroes they don't get much playtime these days with the necros, mesmers and rits stealing all the limelight. From reading around, I gather the melee AI is not that well-regarded - but for fun I spent some time getting the builds sorted out on my warriors, dervishes and ranger heroes, using some of the good hero builds recommended on GWPVX and tweaking from there.

Then there's Anton and Zenmai. Now I gather assassin hero AI is even less well-regarded than melee in general, and I haven't been able to find any recommended builds. I've tried a modified dagger spammer with Jagged Strike, Fox Fangs, Death Blossom and Critical Eye, but Crit Agility is a PvE skill so won't work.

Now just for the sake of interest and completeness, I'd like to get these heroes optimized, even if they won't see much serious use.

Before anyone replies with the usual 'do a search' or 'why not just experiment' type of replies - I'm quite happy to fiddle with builds, but didn't want to spend a long time on this. So - if anyone has tried this before, I'd be interested in any ideas for an assassin build that the hero AI will handle - at least not too badly. If not, I'll just see what I can put together.

Spiritz · Jun 06, 2011, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I dont actually think many ppl bother with sin heros - and i have to add that one of the mods will probably state you should use search ( most questions have been asked before many times and answers given ).
Infact i dont ever recall seeing any sin hero builds on the old pvxwiki , gwpvx or even here on guru - you may be seeking something that may not exist.

Plutoman · Jun 06, 2011, 06:32 PM // 18:32

I don't believe a good 'sin build exists. Might've been able to wing it with a crit-scythe prior, but hmm.. If anything, I'd go with a crit-barrage build. Don't try anything with dagger attacks, the AI is horrible with chaining them.

Whirl E Vic · Jun 06, 2011, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Chains don't work. I think the "viable" options are to try to abuse crits or double strikes. In a party with an orders spammer I tried Anton with Locusts Fury and the "golden" attacks. Worked ok, but he was a little too fragile.

Anaraky · Jun 06, 2011, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Yep a Barrage build is generally by far the best you can do with Assassin heroes. Not only do you get away from the horrible melee/dagger-chain AI, Barrage-sins are pretty decent overall anyway.

Godrik Gandolfi · Jun 06, 2011, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Thanks for this guys - that's exactly the sort of heads-up I was hoping for. Just saved me a lot of time trying out dagger chain builds :-)

@Spiritz - thanks, and I do appreciate the good reasons for using search first on forums, just in this case there didn't seem to be much out there.

I'll have a go with some crit barrage builds and see what happens.

Xsiriss · Jun 06, 2011, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Advice on hero sins? Don't use them. If you want a melee hero use a derv or warrior. You could always use a warriors endurance dagger spam build on a warrior,if you're that keen on using assassin skills.

Anaraky · Jun 06, 2011, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Advice on hero sins? Don't use them. If you want a melee hero use a derv or warrior. You could always use a warriors endurance dagger spam build on a warrior,if you're that keen on using assassin skills.

Wouldn't work, the AI cannot get their head around the dagger chains.

Boogersnot · Jun 06, 2011, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Ah, is that what the problem is? Heroes randomly use dagger skills instead of chaining them?

Mike Jack · Jun 06, 2011, 08:33 PM // 20:33

They attempt to chain attack skills.

It doesn't go very well.

What happens is they use whatever skills are available. So suppose the AI finished their offhand attack but their lead attack just recharged. Now they have a dual attack and a lead attack that can be used. Guess which attack it'll use. Not only that, but it doesn't chain them back-to-back. (it will eventually go through all the chain, but at like 50% efficiency) It's more of an "Attack Skill"+Auto Attack a few times and then another attack skill.

Morte66 · Jun 06, 2011, 08:39 PM // 20:39

There are some assassin builds listed (kind of grudgingly) in the "Hero Meta" sticky in this forum.

Three of the four don't use daggers.

Godrik Gandolfi · Jun 07, 2011, 05:20 AM // 05:20

I've had some success with the following today, doing summit badge farming in Tasca's Demise, although haven't been using for long enough to test thoroughly.

Barrage
Distracting Shot
Keen Arrow
Optional Bow Attack - Determined Shot or Pin Down if you have a crippled +33% bow
Way of the Master
Critical Eye
Shroud of Distress
Optional - I put Signet of Malice here for energy-free condition management, but other utility skills or even a pet could go here.

Critical Strikes 10+1+1
Shadow Arts 8+1
Marksmanship 12
Blessed insignias x 5, best vigor rune you have, vitae x 2

Used this with Anton and Zenmai together, energy management was OK with Barrage going off nearly every second. Even the build using Pin Down for cripple did not run out of power so may be scope for adding more energy hungry attacks. Seems fairly resilient, although not pressure tested with big HM groups yet.

Anyway - seems like a fun way to make use of these two heroes from time to time, even if they're not going to be replacing the mesmers anytime soon :-)

AndrewSX · Jun 07, 2011, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Disrupting accuracy + crit eye + way of the master + Burning arrows (multiple hit w/o prep lose) get my vote.
This and the standard crit barrage are the best thing a sin hero cna do probably.