Curse

HigherMinion · Nov 30, 2011, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I am flabbergasted, quite frankly. I was under the assumption Anet had "fixed" them. I decided to do a little experiment. I let Anton attack the Master of Damage with Jagged-FF-DB, Wota and Crit eye on the bar (14 dagger, 13 critical; zealous daggers not customised). Nothing else. He dealt 45dps.

I then decided to micro the chain and WotA/CE. I was just going to micro the chain, but I realised if I was spamming the chain to it's maximum efficiency, the hero wouldn't try to trigger the stance or skill alone.

64dps.

Now, it doesn't seem to make alot of difference, but you do trigger Death Blossom more often when microing and that in turn produces alot more damage that the MoD cannot show us. To be honest, I don't understand why those adjacent dummies are there if not to show damage from AoE sources... If you do not micro the dagger skills, the hero can take up to 7 seconds to use DB, when it can and should be used every 3-4. The damage would increase alot more with the more melee buffs you added to the mix (MoP, Barbs, GDW, SoH)

I also think AI needs to be updated in the way it deals with maintained enchantments and stances. Look at Aura of the Lich as a prime example; it has an improved effect if maintained once for a further stronger minion, but AI decide to let it end for a bare second before raising it again. This is the same for skills like Frenzy, Flurry, WotA, Critical Eye, etc. What SHOULD happen, or what the AI should be thinking (similar to a human) is "this skill is recharged and is about to end... it has a 0s cast time so i should cast it with 1 second to go" or if it has 2s, give it 1s longer.

So conclusion: Anet, please fix AI with maintaining skills and spamming. Thanks.

Venganza · Dec 01, 2011, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Sin heroes are next to useless, which is why no one in their right mind uses them.

Heroes are not supposed to be replacements for humans, and to try code to that end would be an insanely silly task.

Certain heroes do ok with a reasonable number of skills, others do not: Sin fall into the latter category.

HigherMinion · Dec 01, 2011, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venganza

Sin heroes are next to useless, which is why no one in their right mind uses them.

Heroes are not supposed to be replacements for humans, and to try code to that end would be an insanely silly task.

Certain heroes do ok with a reasonable number of skills, others do not: Sin fall into the latter category.

Players can use PvE skills and consumables. They can also split and can race ahead. That is the advantage. Using skills poorly is not an excuse of preventing "heroes replacing humans".

The skills that don't function at all well on a hero need fixing, save a few which would still be tough to use, like AP.

Leohan · Dec 01, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44

hmmm...maybe.
Things could always improve, why it is taking GW2 so long..lol
I never use a melee hero, only when I have to (Nightfall missions). I'll only use casters with spells or skills that keep their distance from the foe. Anet may want to look at making heroes a little better for when GW1 population becomes a little dead because of GW2. This is definitely not urgent stuff, but something to think about it.

HigherMinion · Dec 01, 2011, 04:06 AM // 04:06

I saw there was an upcoming melee AI update but whether or not that will include attack chaining or not is another matter. I thought melee were fine in any other way.

Malganis · Dec 01, 2011, 06:34 AM // 06:34

I have better luck sticking a bow in their hands along with way of the master, and critical accuracy. Assassin heroes are great at interrupting.

Wenspire · Dec 01, 2011, 08:16 AM // 08:16

When I used a hero sin, i can't remember seeing them activate crit eye unit sometime into the battle. They should have the AI keep that up.

Quaker · Dec 01, 2011, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Yeah I'd much rather they spend time trying to make a Sin Hero work the way you want it to, then to waste time working on GW2. /sarcasm

HigherMinion · Dec 01, 2011, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Yeah I'd much rather they spend time trying to make a Sin Hero work the way you want it to, then to waste time working on GW2. /sarcasm

Funny, that, but GW and GW2 are not the same game. You do also realise they have separate teams for GW and GW2?

Outerworld · Dec 01, 2011, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Even if the chains were made to work properly, they would still pale in comparison to a Derv if you were to insist upon using melee heroes.

HigherMinion · Dec 01, 2011, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Even if the chains were made to work properly, they would still pale in comparison to a Derv if you were to insist upon using melee heroes.

Why? Dervs hit 3 foes at a slow attack speed. Sins spamming DB deal alot more potential aoe damage and trigger buffs faster (perhaps a little less if foes are well balled for scythe).

Gladiator Steven · Dec 02, 2011, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Trolololololol using assassin heroes and than complaining about them being bad.

HigherMinion · Dec 02, 2011, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Steven

Trolololololol using assassin heroes and than complaining about them being bad.

They still produce more DPS than Discord, bro; AoE and single-target. However, the AI for melee and assassins specifically is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO and should be fixed as part of the monthly or bi-monthly, or however long they've extended it to now, bug fixes.

The Drunkard · Dec 02, 2011, 05:24 AM // 05:24

There seems to be something with the AI that paces how fast skills are cast. When I am running interrupt-heavy builds on my mesmer, a lot of the mobs will delay casting skills for extended periods of time, instead of just spamming skills one after the other.

It's not just the melee AI.

Quaker · Dec 02, 2011, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

They still produce more DPS than Discord........

What you fail to realize is that there are problems with the way the Heroes of any class use certain skills, and there are certain builds or skills that don't work well or need to be micro'd for all classes. Just because the particular build you want to use on a particular Hero doesn't work, doesn't mean that much.
What few times I've used a Sin Hero, they worked well enough with just a basic build, so I would assume they could work even better. But just like for every other class, there are some things they won't/can't do well. There are some Hero types that work better than others.

And, within NCsoft, the programmers would would be capable of modifying the hero AI would probably be assigned to new projects such as GW2.

HigherMinion · Dec 02, 2011, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

What you fail to realize is that there are problems with the way the Heroes of any class use certain skills, and there are certain builds or skills that don't work well or need to be micro'd for all classes. Just because the particular build you want to use on a particular Hero doesn't work, doesn't mean that much.
What few times I've used a Sin Hero, they worked well enough with just a basic build, so I would assume they could work even better. But just like for every other class, there are some things they won't/can't do well. There are some Hero types that work better than others.

And, within NCsoft, the programmers would would be capable of modifying the hero AI would probably be assigned to new projects such as GW2.

Yes, but think about it like this. You have an ele bar with searing flames, burning gaze or w/e, immmolate and AoR/Attunement. Well, the enchantments should be maintained because there is a general benefit for doing so. Then the hero AI must work out when to use their skills. They know not to use Gaze until the foe is burning, but they have to decide whether or not to use SF or Immolate. They work out how many foes are there or if they are burning already. AI IS intelligent.

Now consider a build that contains nothing but a 3-skill dagger chain, a stance and a skill. The skill has no aftercast so it's basically a stackable stance. Neither skills interrupt the flow of attacking. There is also only one possible way the attack will go. THey will always go JS-FF-DB. Always. Of course, or they will fail. That doesn't now explain why they are using their build slow as hell.

Gladiator Steven · Dec 03, 2011, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

They still produce more DPS than Discord, bro; AoE and single-target. However, the AI for melee and assassins specifically is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO and should be fixed as part of the monthly or bi-monthly, or however long they've extended it to now, bug fixes.

Yeah, but we all know how good A-net is with keeping up with updates.