Curse

thetwistedboy · Jun 14, 2011, 03:43 PM // 15:43

SY definitely isn't needed, I think that EFGJack only slotted it on the sword bar because of his adventures in DoA. You can't ball everything, especially in the foundry. So, in HM, SY is kind of a must.

@Assylia, Shelter is basically a partywide PS. It's great just in case something goes wrong and it can't just be stripped by enchantment removal.

Assylia · Jun 14, 2011, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Well I never did DoA with heroes myself because I'm not really a fan of it in general, but I'm sure SY can be usefull there.
I don't like Shelter, I understand it's great power to save a whole team from wiping in a generic c-space team, but if you actually have a dedicated frontliner that takes all the damage, then PS seems so more safe, and if the spirit dies you're gonna get raped too. And to me it really looks like the spirits dies fast if the tank is standing in like 30 firestorms. ;p

Wenspire · Jun 14, 2011, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Tank probably won't be taking damage that reaches the 10% threshold often. Shelter is mainly for the squishies in the party, I believe.

thetwistedboy · Jun 15, 2011, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Shelter is basically there for the squishies yeah. It last quite long, surprisingly. And because of ST, it's thrown back down a couple seconds later. Like I said, it's basically there because you can't ball everything everywhere, or at least it can be hard to, and because of his adventures in DoA. Where you can't ball everything and AoE is pretty much everywhere. *Cough* Rage Titans with Shockwave that own your party anyway because Shockwave is evil *cough*

outlaw161 · Jun 15, 2011, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assylia

Well I never did DoA with heroes myself because I'm not really a fan of it in general, but I'm sure SY can be usefull there.
I don't like Shelter, I understand it's great power to save a whole team from wiping in a generic c-space team, but if you actually have a dedicated frontliner that takes all the damage, then PS seems so more safe, and if the spirit dies you're gonna get raped too. And to me it really looks like the spirits dies fast if the tank is standing in like 30 firestorms. ;p

You can have both ST and PS in your party,than your also protected as a tank,and your party is also protected if some aggro will lose control

Assylia · Jun 15, 2011, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Ah well, since you're talking about the mobs that doesn't get balled, then I would rather just take SY to reduce most of the damage that way. And again I can't really say much about DoA, but all dungeons and stuff went fine without even thinking about Shelter.

hunter · Jun 15, 2011, 01:18 PM // 13:18

SY is fine until you face those pulls with flame Djinns and 3 roaring ethers in HM. Forgewright is a good example of it.

Assylia · Jun 15, 2011, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Forgewright is a good example where you can just Death Charge to the caster mobs and just spike 'em down to avoid having your backline getting agro. Ooze Pit and SoO are other places where Death Charge is really good.

Daesu · Jun 15, 2011, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I replaced BiP with Well of Power for hp and energy and some corpse control.

I don't trust heroes with drain delusions either although it is a good energy management on human mesmers, they could drain a useful hex from the target due to the limited AI.

Everything else looks good.

Squishy ftw · Jun 23, 2011, 08:33 PM // 20:33

That's my version of Rojway. Very much open to suggestions/improvements.

One of the more fun team builds to run imo.
AoG -> SS -> Death's Charge -> Aura of Thorns -> Eremite's and stuff will be crippled + diseased + bleeding while you should have some proper adrenaline ready for Heart of Fury -> Staggering -> Wearying. This is usually the point where stuff blows up.

hunter · Jun 24, 2011, 01:30 AM // 01:30

IT lacks single target prot. What will happen is that shelter will go down due to the initial AoE burst (think flame djinns or roaring ethers) leaving your party naked for the onslaught.

First thing you do is throw PS in there. give it to the ST, or some of the RoJ monks, or even the para, i don't care

I would ditch the para altogether but i take it you wanna avoid the 2x mes 2x rit makeup we have all grown to love and hate.

Only thing im worried about is the healing, 1 AoE healer and 1 single target healer while lacking PS and single target protting won't cut it in some areas.

Surgo · Dec 14, 2011, 09:12 PM // 21:12

To EFGJack:

First of all, great builds! I just have a few questions on the workings though, and what your micro "routine" is for maximum efficiency.

* For Strength of Honor, do you disable it and micro it on yourself? I've noticed heroes can vary between sucky and good when it comes to casting this in combat then dismissing it at the end of it.
* For the constant-upkeep Shield of Absorption, is this part of your micro? I have next to no experience with this skill whatsoever.
* I'm pretty sure the last time I tested the combination of Judge's Insight and Strength of Honor, they didn't stack. Which would you say is the more valuable skill to be kept?
* What is BIP buying you? You've got GoLE and at least one other energy management skill on just about everybody. If you got rid of BIP, who would be running out of energy?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to take my heroing "to the next level" or so and your build here looks incredibly great.

Olle · Dec 14, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgo

To EFGJack:

First of all, great builds! I just have a few questions on the workings though, and what your micro "routine" is for maximum efficiency.

* For Strength of Honor, do you disable it and micro it on yourself? I've noticed heroes can vary between sucky and good when it comes to casting this in combat then dismissing it at the end of it.

Yes, disable and micro, otherwise they wount keep it up during some battles.

* For the constant-upkeep Shield of Absorption, is this part of your micro? I have next to no experience with this skill whatsoever.

Yes, this is needed to be microed, otherwise the heroes would use SoA on any other npc under alot of pressure
Basicly, Cast on yourself before rushing in/shadowstepping,then when its about to run out, cast on second hero.

* I'm pretty sure the last time I tested the combination of Judge's Insight and Strength of Honor, they didn't stack. Which would you say is the more valuable skill to be kept?

Im quite sure the +20% and the added damage does infact stack

* What is BIP buying you? You've got GoLE and at least one other energy management skill on just about everybody. If you got rid of BIP, who would be running out of energy?

My guess is that he doesnt need more damage, nor protection, and therefor wants BiP to make his heroes have full energy at all times to cast the important skills(some which are a bit e-heavy aswell,if you get the HSR)

Sorry for the questions, just trying to take my heroing "to the next level" or so and your build here looks incredibly great.

Hope it helped

Surgo · Dec 16, 2011, 04:57 PM // 16:57

It did. And to clear up any confusion, I just ran back to the Master of Damage and re-tested Strength of Honor and Judge's Insight. They do stack; I was in error.

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind...

* With Balthazar's Spirit, is Warrior's Endurance really needed on the axe build? I'm not even sure about FGJ! as the only two adrenal skills on the build are Whirlwind Attack and Dismember, and they'll be practically insta-charged between Dark Fury and Balthazar's spirit.
* Similarly, with Balthazar's Spirit, is the blood support from Mark of Fury / Dark Fury so necessary? It'd be nice with the hammer build I suppose (you can keep getting a lot of adrenaline while they're KD'ed), but for the axe and sword? Well, I guess it can always get stripped and that sucks.

Olle · Dec 16, 2011, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgo

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind...

* With Balthazar's Spirit, is Warrior's Endurance really needed on the axe build? I'm not even sure about FGJ! as the only two adrenal skills on the build are Whirlwind Attack and Dismember, and they'll be practically insta-charged between Dark Fury and Balthazar's spirit.

Try diffrent elites out, who knows, you might find a more usefull elite
though you do realise balt isnt going to be triggered 100% of the times, since you might not get a good ball, or other factors

* Similarly, with Balthazar's Spirit, is the blood support from Mark of Fury / Dark Fury so necessary? It'd be nice with the hammer build I suppose (you can keep getting a lot of adrenaline while they're KD'ed), but for the axe and sword? Well, I guess it can always get stripped and that sucks.

as above, try diffrent skills. i like it cause BS can get stripped, and MoF/dark helps getting extra-extra adrenaline.

Everyone can run discord and roll truh the game, but not everyone can/know howto change skills in order to make the build(s) more efficient

EFGJack · Dec 16, 2011, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgo

To EFGJack:

First of all, great builds! I just have a few questions on the workings though, and what your micro "routine" is for maximum efficiency.

* For Strength of Honor, do you disable it and micro it on yourself? I've noticed heroes can vary between sucky and good when it comes to casting this in combat then dismissing it at the end of it.
* For the constant-upkeep Shield of Absorption, is this part of your micro? I have next to no experience with this skill whatsoever.
* I'm pretty sure the last time I tested the combination of Judge's Insight and Strength of Honor, they didn't stack. Which would you say is the more valuable skill to be kept?
* What is BIP buying you? You've got GoLE and at least one other energy management skill on just about everybody. If you got rid of BIP, who would be running out of energy?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to take my heroing "to the next level" or so and your build here looks incredibly great.

Right. I micro SoAs on myself as the cooldowns allow, with 2 copies of 'em I have one on me at all times. I force the ritualist to maintain Judge's on me and if I have hexes or conditions on myself I smite them off for increased AE damage. I rarely micro ROJs or Panic as the heroes use them well most of the time, unless I know I'm facing a tough pack that needs to be dealt with properly, then I disable ROJs, Binding Chains and Panic and use them after balling up. I've got Ancestor's Rage & Splinter Weapon bound and Splinter is pretty much always on.

C - Target Closest
Space - Attack
N - Self-target
T - Smite Hex #1
G - Smite Hex #2
B - Ancestor's Rage
Y - Judge's Insight
H - Splinter Weapon
Mouse #4 - SoA #1
Mouse #5 - SoA #2

...And some others that I've forgot. I haven't played GWs in a few months. Anyway, with the keybinds above my "micro routine" is basically SoA rotation that is easily achieved by hitting N & Thumb button #1 -> instantly hit C after issuing the command for SoA #1, and repeating that with Thumb #2 after SoA #1 runs out. This I keep doing at all times if I deem it necessary. I add Smite Hex and Condition into the routine if there are hexes or conditions in the area.
Ancestor's Rage is pretty easy to micro on cooldown by simply pressing N->B->C and continuing with what I was doing. N->Y->C for Judge's and N->H->C for Splinter.
There's obviously more than just using skills: flagging heroes, using the odd spirit, Shatter, ROJ, Binding Chains, etc., but those are situational.

Strength and Honor - keep it disabled and use it on yourself. It stacks with Judge's Insight as you learned from testing it on your own.
Shield of Absorption is one of the strongest skills in the game as you can tank pretty much anything with your standard SoA rotation. Covering it with junk enchantments is recommended in some areas. You be the judge of what to change and when.
BiP and GoLE are skills that I bring for several reasons. The most obvious is the fact that they provide heroes with energy. One reason hides within the fact that heroes are bad at using their skills properly: if a hero has 4 skills that do the same thing (heal or damage) and 3 of the skills do 20 damage/healing and 1 does 100 damage/healing, and they're all on a 2 second cooldown, there's a small chance the hero will not use the skill that does 100 damage at all (heroes suffer from aftercast delay as well). Because of this I generally try to avoid having more than 3 skills that do the same thing.. which is why my heroes are always built with the following template in mind: 2-3 damage skills, 2-3 utility skills and 2 selfish skills. And that BiP suits the build well. For example: having the heroes at decent levels of energy in DoA/UW/etc is better than PoD.

Feel free to ask if you have any more questions.