Curse

SotiCoto · May 23, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

look up at my data again, the scaleible loot drops were indenticle over the same peroid of time. if you prefer SV because you get a warm and fuzzy fealing seeing one large pile of loot after a long and tedious trip - then say so - don't try to go around makeing up BS that one way gives more loot then the other, because the real word data shows that they are, in fact, equeal.

the only difference between the two styles is doing alot of fast runs that nets 3-4 drops a run, or doing few long drawn out runs that net larger piles - both are equeal ammounts of loot, even the scaleible; and any belief you have otherwise is a delusion.

Firstly... calm yourself down. You're abusing the "delusion" word quite excessively for one thing... especially for someone who continues to take matters out of context.
Now.... back to the point.

I will repeat the key thing I was trying to explain in the last post nice and slowly for you:
This. Is. Not. Measured. In. Relation. To. Time.

It is measured in relation to any given group of enemies. Time can be put aside for the moment... totally put aside. Yes. Really.
The overwhelming consensus, which is testable by anyone who can be bothered to try it.... is that for any given group of enemies killed by a solo-farmer in one run.... more chalks, blues and grape items will be dropped if they are killed separately rather than nuked.
While it is genuinely impossible to prove this absolutely true... I have reason to believe it is a valid observation since my every farming session has shown results consistant with this.

Now... I have my suspicion that what we are seeing is in fact the loot-scaling effect itself in action (as I wasn't aware of any such thing before loot scaling was implemented)... and that it can be bypassed by staggering the kills (though that defeats the purpose of quick-farming in some cases). This is backed by the observation that indeed rare (non-scaled) items seem not to be influenced by the killing time at all (I have noticed a trend thus far that I get a higher ratio of golds to chalks if I kill quickly than otherwise).

So... if you wanted to bring time back into it at this stage.... I would agree that to some extent having a few small piles or one big pile effectively equates to the same thing... and time-wise it may well be about the same.... Less actual effort per unit time however is required to do a staggered farm... which sometimes is better. And on the flipside... as I already noted, I have no reason to believe non-scaled loot is influenced by this at all...
Then again... as also noted.... some enemies HAVE to be SVed... whether because of a lack of desire to cluster together ... or some bizarre immunity to SS (e.g. Kappas).

jwangyh · May 23, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

kinda off topic but who is manitoba? i'm relatively new to the game and the screen doesnt really tell me why i shld know him. just curious. any1?

Marth Reynolds · May 23, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwangyh

kinda off topic but who is manitoba? i'm relatively new to the game and the screen doesnt really tell me why i shld know him. just curious. any1?

Haven't heard to much about him as well tbh, but he is showing a image of the protecive bond monk build the one before 55hp's were introduced.
It was a major farm build at that time, perhaps he invented it??

Ah well when i started farming protective bond was nerfed already so i wouldn't know

More on topic:
And i agree with soticoto and WildmouseX their points, drops seem to be better when you kill them one at a time, but this also slows a run down.
So it's most likely just up to personal preference taking your time or go for mass murder

manitoba1073 · May 23, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marth Reynolds

Haven't heard to much about him as well tbh, but he is showing a image of the protecive bond monk build the one before 55hp's were introduced.
It was a major farm build at that time, perhaps he invented it??

Ah well when i started farming protective bond was nerfed already so i wouldn't know

More on topic:
And i agree with soticoto and WildmouseX their points, drops seem to be better when you kill them one at a time, but this also slows a run down.
So it's most likely just up to personal preference taking your time or go for mass murder

I was one of the first few ppl who did come up with the 55 build.

Now for the drops again. Its not really about killing them slow or fast try this out, wait 1-2 mins when you enter a zone before starting to kill things.

deluxe · May 23, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

he is the leetsauce dude, noone was 55farming in august 2005

wel i was, and with me hundreds of people.... tell us something impressive dude. I have screenshots from july 2005 doing uw solo, omg i am so leet and cool, why dont you know me? WHY?

dude, shut up and get back ontopic, people like you annoy the shit out of me.

ArKaiN · May 23, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

he is the leetsauce dude, noone was 55farming in august 2005

wel i was, and with me hundreds of people.... tell us something impressive dude. I have screenshots from july 2005 doing uw solo, omg i am so leet and cool, why dont you know me? WHY?

dude, shut up and get back ontopic, people like you annoy the shit out of me.

Overreaction+Self-promotion FTL

Nkah Sennyt · May 24, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Back to discussion about drop rates, not egos.

Destinyy · May 24, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Lol... I got the 1st 55 user as this Jak dude way back when, in fact, the 55 started off as a 10hp monk at lvl 3!!!

Go look in the monk forum for PvE at the thread "The ogirin of the 55" to see who actually used 55ing first!!!

So from what I can see, the place you'd really wanna take SV over SS to is somwhere like UW/FoW to try negate the 1K entry fee by more merch food dropping. Farming a free area is more profitable over time if yuo use SS...

*Kicks himself for the hours spent SVing those freakin Luxon Assassins*

Necro and deluxe, where is the 300 run test data u guys have been promising???

boarderx · May 24, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

just close this, its not making sense anymore, lol

all you need to know is this: loot is scaled back, if you kill the foe you get a chance of getting loot.

Levi Garett · May 24, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Oh please who cares who was the first to make 55 builds or whatever. That's not the point of this post.

And just FYI I was solo-monking and 55/105'ing back in late June 2005. Just because people didn't make a post about it on guru does not mean it wasn't happening. But I'll never claim I was the first person to use a low HP build.

I'm a firm believer that if you think you're doing something for the first time in a MMO then odds are there's somebody that has done it before you.

One of the greatest things about farming for me is coming up with my own builds/concepts. Only you will ever truely know that you came up with a build without relying on fan sites, etc.

Bottom line: Just enjoy the feeling of not using cookie-cutter builds and coming up with something on your own.

ArKaiN · May 24, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Yeah, who cares about who started it, this isn't about me.
Back in 2003 I was farming all the time with 55, and you had to farm with only Orison of healing and Shielding Hands on account of those were the only monk spells in the game in the pre-alpha version, and like everything was pixellated, and I got like 150 ectos and now I actually OWN Kamadan, just FYI.
And also close this thread please.

Levi Garett · May 25, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Not sure why this was closed but it's back open for now.

I'll do some cleanup when Guru starts to settle down a little.

Keep this on topic please....Yes I'll be deleting my reply above as well.

lord_shar · May 25, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

I've started mass-AE farming again just to see if my initial observations were a fluke. Starting from scratch, after 10+ full smite runs along with 20+ halcyon runs, I not could see a definitive drop pattern. Sometimes every mob will drop something if I AE-kill a single group, sometimes I get nothing. I've killed multiple groups of 10+ smites and gotten 3 total drops... other times, nothing. It does seem very random, but loot-scaling is definitely skewing the results.

Given the above, it's pretty safe to say that mass-AE farming will probably out-pace single-killing given the sheer bulk of opponents being taken out very fast and efficiently. While this is not ideal for places like UW due to 1k entry fee, you will still net more gold long term with loot-scaling-exempt items (rares, dyes, etc) factored in.

SotiCoto · May 26, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Does seem to make most sense that way.

Unfortunately, since the nerf I've been unable to farm Urgoz's Warren any more (or at least until I decide to make a ranger primary AND rocket it that far through the game to get trapping... which seems unlikely before a second nerf comes into play)...... and since Urgoz's Warren was the quick, easy farm I was using as a mass-kill reference (since the Thought Stealers would kill themselves VERY rapidly).... I'm going to have to find an alternative to keep testing myself.

For the record, I don't know many things that SS will actually finish off that quickly.

drupal · May 28, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I don't think that the loot scales because of AoE. There's no difference between my 55/SS und 55/SV UW runs in drops... I just tried it.

zorbi · May 29, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

It affects. You have less white items with ss but same amount of ectos.

drupal · May 29, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorbi

It affects. You have less white items with ss but same amount of ectos.

Not really, I had some white/blue drops but in general the same amount of drops. I just tested it because of this thread.

Pyro maniac · May 29, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by drupal

I don't think that the loot scales because of AoE. There's no difference between my 55/SS und 55/SV UW runs in drops... I just tried it.

nothing personal, but I prefer that nice spreadsheat on page 1 over you're sentence of 12 words

also, [skill]Spoil Victor[/skill] does almost triple dmg over [skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill]
Although SS is AoE, clustering 3 mobs is sometimes a hard job (casters). So if SV does yield more loot, it can be both faster and profitable =)

drupal · May 29, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

No Problem, I just wanted to post my experiences.

SotiCoto · May 31, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

True that.
Comparing SV to SS on the simple basis of SV being singular and SS being AoE is unreliable for a number of reasons:

#1. Spoil Victor does almost three times as much damage per strike as Spiteful Spirit... hence on average, if you're killing a group of three clustered enemies then both methods should take approximately the same timespan to kill them (though if the SS target dies, you need to apply it to a new target).
#2. Spoil Victor causes "health loss" as opposed to the actual armour-ignoring damage of SS. While usually this makes no difference... there are places where it is significant (e.g. the Kappas outside Gyala Hatchery).
#3. Strange things can happen with Spoil Victor due to its "target needs less health" thing combined with 55hp being less than the damage done by the spell. Sometimes it will kill the enemy outright, but sometimes it will leave them at under 55 hp and they'll stay that way until their health regenerates... which sometimes results in accidental spike kills as regeneration takes a previous SV target's health above 55, causing their next attack or targetted skill to kill them at the same time as the next SV target.

Oddly enough... I've found that having that Unreal Tournament "headshot" sound mod really helps me gauge the timing of kills as there is absolutely NO mistaking when something dies nearby.