Curse

Captain Arne Is PRO · Oct 01, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

600/smite is the common name for the holy wrath/retribution setup

go call someone else a failure lol

Only one person prior to me realized that.

Dumbass failure.

Faer · Oct 01, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Arne Is PRO

Only one person prior to me realized that.

Dumbass failure.

No, I'm pretty sure we were all aware of the use of the 600HP build (Hence the way we were saying 600/Smite, and so forth). Even Coloneh.

Andrew Dunne · Oct 03, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

In the UW, a 600 is better, no doubt about it, (assuming you go with a smiter) as I have tried both, 70 damage every attack unconditional is good, and is excellent when there is only one aaxte.

However a GOOD SS could beat that, but for PUGs that is rare so people prefer to take the guaranteed damage, as most of the time it is quicker.

For normal farming I always use a 55, there is no benefit to a 600 unless you are with a smiter, and then you cant take that many enemies unlike a 55.

Basically in ToA it is for the UW or FoW, where groups arent huge and a 600 is good

blackknight1337 · Oct 04, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

actually a good 600 can tank just as many enemies as a 55

if you don't believe me....well i wish i had a screenshot of the 600 i was smiting for in 3 man that tanked nearly half of the big room in foundry

its tricky but it can be done

and it is useful in many areas with a smiter, areas that a 55 can only dream of farming

ghostlyfenix · Dec 20, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

600 > 55
55 cant farm doa
55 and ss cant farm hm uw as fast

Pyro maniac · Dec 20, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

55 hp = solo
600 hp = duo

you can run 55 in duo, however retribution and holy wrath have no use
vice versa a 600 hp can solo, however 55 is just easier and faster (when using spoil victor or Spitefull Spirit).

IxiRancid · Dec 20, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I'm using both 600 (Ogden Smiter) and 55 (solo or SS partner) to farm. I began with 55 and then just for fun tried 600/Smite.

I don't make any assumptions to which one is better, but from my personal experience (please note "my personal") I rather use 600 with SoA.
It just feels safer at a few points - comparing 55/SS vs. 600/Smite - kills faster (note here that SS only kills bunched-up foes, while 600 kick even staff/wanders), can get ressed, it's a lot safer in HM (UW and FoW), with 600HP (700 actually) there is a slight chance if being stripped to recast PS and Spirit Bond, and the downside of SS partner is (with SS guildie I farm) aggro breaking the moment he puts Archaned SS on they break and chase his arse, then we wait a bit to break his aggro, return to me and what goes around..... that doesn't happen to me with 600 because the Smiter is always far away.

On the other hand, solo 55ing had brought me much more money than 600/Smite.

For the speed of killing we were just bored and tried 600/Smite + SS for some real "tough mo-fo" damage

the result was SS complaining about not even being able to cast SS properly before they all died.

But as I said above, I use them both and don't prefer one over the other. I like having one storage slot taken up by different armor pieces

squan · Dec 20, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

hmmm both are totaly different

55 monk set up is more for solo and 600 is for 2 or 3 men farms

but if you wanna compare it with somepopulair areas here we go

uw

600 monk is best if you go hm. smitter just stands back.
+point (very easy)
-point (boring)

if you go nm best way is with ss necro. not all 55 monks are capable to agro in a correct way (most 55 monks dont know what a 55 monk can do)
if i go as 55 monk i mostly take 6 aatxes + 3 groups of grasps in 1 pull (first room)

a good 55 monk can maintain 6 aatxes and 12 grasps
or
4 groups of smites and 8 colds

if you know that well then your a good 55 monk

Foundry

55 had no business here, he could but then as sv/af 55 monk + a famine ranger

but 600 owns foundry i can clear foundry in hm also complete the quest.

Coloneh · Dec 20, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackknight1337

actually a good 600 can tank just as many enemies as a 55

if you don't believe me....well i wish i had a screenshot of the 600 i was smiting for in 3 man that tanked nearly half of the big room in foundry

its tricky but it can be done

no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW.

ghostlyfenix · Dec 20, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW.

dude SoA fixed up spirit bond , moron

Age · Dec 20, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I would say that 55ing is much for fun as there are a variety of builds out there for them.You don't need a parnter in HM in other areas you can solo it at anytime.I still wouldn't mind trying the 600 out with a partner.I would say 55ing is like being an active protect Monk as compared to a bonder.

electrofish · Dec 21, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

what's the bar of 600hp monk?

Faer · Dec 21, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

no, your wrong.

If you can't handle a bunch of red -0's popping up above your head in the time it takes you to recast a spell with a two second recharge, something is seriously wrong with you (or your Internet connection).

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrofish

what's the bar of 600hp monk?

[skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Spell Breaker[/skill][skill]Blessed Aura[/skill][skill]Balthazar's Spirit[/skill][skill]Essence Bond[/skill]

You can put just about anything in the Optional slot. Some people take Shielding Hands, others might take Mystic Regeneration, and there are even still some people who bring Blessed Signet. Personally, I bring Sympathetic Visage.

Arkantos · Dec 21, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW.

[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Shield Of Absorption[/skill]

Sorry, you were saying?

darcness boy · Dec 22, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Personally i like going 600hp more than 55 hp. Yes, some people say that 600 is bad and su*ks, but thats not true. if its hard to recast Spirit Bond when it ends, biring SoA and youre fine :P. Sure when i go alone farm big mobs i dont play 600, usually i go 105 - works fine.

Syntonic · Dec 22, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Mantra of Resolve or Concentration is used in the optional in places with interrupts. Or you can consider echo for spellbreaker I think. I never heard of too many people taking Shielding Hands, it doesn't really fit with the build since you are trying to get spirit bond to trigger to keep yourself alive. When there's too much for spirit bond to keep up (not a good idea to spam it), SoA to help thin the crowd a bit with spirit bond. Following this line of thought, some people use frenzy along with this since it can help clear things faster. There's little use in taking blessed sig if your smiter is bringing blood is power though.

600 is easier than you might expect since there is some room for error though lag will kill you much like it would a 55. Everything else is pretty much self explanatory and any monk with experience should pick things up fairly easily.

Asha Rai · Dec 23, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW.

600 tanking is all about soa, not spirit bond.

1) cast spirit bond and soa
2) tank
3) when soa is almost recharged, use spirit bond immediately followed by soa

Ignoring dazed and interrupts you can tank a huge number of enemies. Spirit bond is just to keep you alive in the 1/2 second soa is down (with blessed aura and 20% staff it will last 11 secs, so soa down time = your ping). With 0 ping you can tank an infinite number of enemies.

The nice thing about 600-smite is that you do damage without the risk of agro breaking which can happen for 55 + ss depending on the situation. 55-ss also won't work where there is hex removal (unless you drain the mobs energy or something). And a 600 can tank is far more places than a 55. I can't think of anywhere a 55 can tank that a 600 can't.

Age · Dec 23, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

600 tanking is all about soa, not spirit bond.

1) cast spirit bond and soa
2) tank
3) when soa is almost recharged, use spirit bond immediately followed by soa

Ignoring dazed and interrupts you can tank a huge number of enemies. Spirit bond is just to keep you alive in the 1/2 second soa is down (with blessed aura and 20% staff it will last 11 secs, so soa down time = your ping). With 0 ping you can tank an infinite number of enemies.

The nice thing about 600-smite is that you do damage without the risk of agro breaking which can happen for 55 + ss depending on the situation. 55-ss also won't work where there is hex removal (unless you drain the mobs energy or something). And a 600 can tank is far more places than a 55. I can't think of anywhere a 55 can tank that a 600 can't.

The only problem with this though and that is a 600 has to have a partner in most places as with 55ing you don't except the UW.

batno_mercy · Dec 24, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

1) the 600hp monk can tank an infinite number of enemies and still have place for an elite (55hp can do it with healing hands and protective hands or SoA and protective hands) which will be efficient. the 600hp monk needs only two attributes maxed : Protection Prayers and Divine Favor. If you chose the former at 16, then you have:

-unlimited tanking protection combining protective spirit, spirit bond and shield of absorption combined with blessed aura.
-better heals form spirit bond

if you chose the latter
-you have place for Spell Breaker at 16 Divine Favor. Go /E with glyph of swiftness and you have only 5 seconds of vulnerability.

Or you can just get divine favor at 10 and then put a +4 cap, then switch it back for protection,time to put up blessed aura,SoA will still be infinite and you will have 32 attribute points for your other skill.

Comparing cost of equipment:

55hp monk needs
-any armor (may be 1337 armor, but most people just get shing jea) almost nothing but can be up to 5k
-the grim cesta - 5k
-6 superior monk runes (including switching caps, 5 if you don't switch caps) - roughly 5k, depending on current prices
-any +20% enchanting wand/melee weapon -5k

total cost : at least 15k

600hp monk needs
-you have your 600hp armor as you start the game (5 AL is best) so you don't need to waste money on armor or you can buy cheap shing jea for 15 AL still works, almost no price.
- 1 or 2 sup monk runes, depends if you switch caps -about 2k
- any +20% enchanting weapon (not necessarily with +hp) yakslapper goes for 3k...

total cost : at most 5k (I run CoF with this equipment)

600hp > 55hp in prices to start one (excluding skills etc.)

So, what more? Skill

55hp isnt a child's play you need to watch everything all the time. PS, SoA, HB. If you don't cast one of these in time you are dead meat, learning 55hp can be tricky.

600hp: you need to cast your enchantments in the beginning, then cast protective spirit, spirit bond and SoA. Then you can sit back for 10 seconds, recast spirit bond and SoA,then cast spirit bond again. 10 seconds, 3 skills, one used every 20 seconds (protective spirit)

Having played both, I learned to 55hp in about one week and still had flaws, learned to do it well after a lot of practice.
With 600hp, i bought my equipment, got my smiter hero, started CoF, died a few times, did the run in about 1h30, then started running people directly and it is really easy. All the 600hp builds are the same in practice, so UW went fine, so did other secret guild farming (BWAHAHA, 600/smiter/famine will not tell more XD)

Well, I think that having a 600hp monk is one of the things that makes you a good monk farmer. 55hp still has it's ways, but 600 is better overall (the only flaw in 600 is that you need to have a teammate that actually DOES that damage, but it actually goes just as fast as solo.

thibault the monk · Dec 24, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

55 can tank more enemies with a little bit more survivability, but the 600 monk kills far faster. With a 55 monk u can solo places, with a 600 u must have a smiter. Also, the 600/smite is a team, 600 doesnt work without the smiter. The smiter uses vital blessing on it, so its actually more like the 883hp monk (mine has 883 health). With the 600 monk u have to use SoA, but that doesnt make it inferior, it makes it so the 600 monk can tank up to about 11-12 monsters at once. Also, the 600/smite build works better because the monsters wont break aggro and kill the smiter, while in in 55/ss the monsters are likely to break and destroy the ss. HM is MUCH easier with a 600/smite, and very difficult for a 55, especially uw. All in all i like the 600 monk much better, always have.