Curse

Ministry Of Peace · Jun 20, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

NOTE: Due to people complaining about the enchantment free claim, I do not count echo and arcane echo, as explained below.

UPDATE 7/3/08: Added comments and testing notes at bottom.

UPDATE: Due to feedback from this thread, I have re-thought some of the skill choices, and updated some of the bars. Explanation is below under possible changes.

UPDATE TWO: I did some testing of the protection offered by angelic protection. For a full overview, see my most recent post at the bottom.

*Introduction*

Looking through various farm builds and places that can (or cannot) be farmed, I noticed that a lot of places are unfarmable due to heavy enchantment removal. This got me thinking about ways that these areas could be farmable with as small a team as possible, which led me to something like the builds below. After some discussions with friends that like to do farming, I think I have come up with something that could be workable, so I thought I would post them to see if anyone had ideas to improve on the builds.

*The Builds*

[build prof=Ritualist/Warrior][Vengeful Was Khanhei][Soothing Memories][Spirit Light][Pure Was Li Ming]["For Great Justice!"]["To the Limit!"][Bonetti's Defense]["Save Yourselves!"][/build]
[build prof=Ranger/Necromancer][Serpent's Quickness][Quickening Zephyr][Marksman's Wager][Rigor Mortis][Mark of Pain][Blood Ritual][Healing Spring][Heket's Rampage][/build]
[build prof=Paragon/Mesmer][Echo][Angelic Protection][Song of Concentration][Energizing Chorus][Anthem of Envy][Ether Phantom][Cry of Pain]["Go for the Eyes!"][/build]

Optional for more damage:
[build prof=Necromancer/Paragon][Angelic Protection][Spiteful Spirit][Parasitic Bond][No Skill][Enfeebling Blood][Signet of Corruption][Foul Feast][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Alternative Rit Build:
[build prof=Ritualist/Warrior][Vengeful Was Khanhei][Soothing Memories][Spirit Light][Pure Was Li Ming][Brawling Headbutt][Pain Inverter][Bonetti's Defense]["Save Yourselves!"][/build]

Since this has become sort of my build showcase and might be useful with this team build, here is a monk healer I made:

[build prof=Monk/Elementalist][Glyph of Renewal][Divine Spirit][Aura of Stability][Smiter's Boon][Vigorous Spirit][Reversal of Damage][Reversal of Fortune][Release Enchantments][/build]

Add in rebirth to make it a rezzer as well, in case the main party all dies.

*How it works*

The foundation of this build is built around the skill "Angelic Protection", and maintaining it on the Rt/W tank.

The ranger uses high expertise and wilderness survival to keep QZ up, using Marksman's Wager for energy management, and various curse spells to augment damage.

QZ allows the paragon to chain arcane echo, echo, and angelic protection to keep angelic protection on the tank at all times. The paragon uses "There's Nothing To Fear" to help protect himself and the ranger, and his other shouts/chants for energy management. He augments damage by spearing the enemy that has mark of pain. Alternatively, a scythe could be used to attack multiple enemies hexed with mark of pain, due to the short recharge granted by QZ, and the relatively long duration.

The ritualist is a fairly straightforward build, using VwK for damage and healing to offset the initial ~90 damage required for Angelic Protection to kick in, as well as to offset degen. The healing spells are used to heal any leakers that may attack the ranger or paragon, and pure was li ming is used to take off any conditions. Bonetti's Defense is used for energy management, and Save Yourselves! is used to protect the ranger and paragon, and help keep aggro on the ritualist. In order to take as much damage as possible to build adrenaline, the ritualist will use the lowest AL possible. The ritualist must have high HP in order to survive the hits (so they can be healed right afterwards).

*Preliminary Tests*

Unfortunately, since I don't have any of these professions with the necessary skills (my main characters being elementalist and monk) I haven't been able to test the entire build yet, just pieces of it. However, using hero's, I have been able to test the foundation of the build (perma QZ/Angelic Protection) and it works fine, with no energy problems whatsoever.

*Possible Changes*

My original plan was to have the ranger be a SS Necro, but obviously that would introduce some huge energy management issues. I also thought about using glyph of renewal for QZ, then having some sort of ele skills for damage. Unfortunately, this also introduces a lot of energy management problems.

Could use Brawling Headbutt on the rit to deal with any pesky monks/mesmers/anything else giving you trouble.

Could put backfire on the para to deal with pesky monks/mesmers/other annoying caster.

If there are a lot of knockdowns, could use "I am unstoppable!" on any character that didn't want to be knocked down =]

Could put hex eater signet on the para for hex-heavy mobs.

*Explanation of Skill Changes ROUND ONE*

Hexbreaker Aria on the paragon is to deal with hexes, as well as energy management. Air of Superiority I feel would be a lot better than arcane echo, because of the numerous different bonuses it gives. Obviously it leaves a lot more to chance, but it will help a lot with energy and health management, as well as giving the chance to recharge all skills instantly. Echoing Angelic Protection just once is enough to last ~45 seconds, at which point most of the enemies should have died anyway.

As for the rit bar, granted you won't be able to go INTO an engagement with Save Yourselves! but in exchange you have much greater ability to deal with bosses/monks. Brawling headbutt should be a pretty much total shutdown to one character, while pain inverter will be HUGE damage, and can likely be kept up indefinitely at high asura levels due to qz. Once again, energy shouldn't be an issue due to bonetti's defense.

*Explanation of Echo and Arcane Echo*

Granted echo and arcane echo are enchantments, but the paragon would easily be able to run outside the range of any enchantment stripping monsters when he needs to cast those, since it only needs to be done every ~30-40 seconds. That would also help prevent interrupts. Ditto with the ranger, he would have to wander a ways away to recast QZ (if necessary) to ensure he didn't get interrupted/it doesn't get killed.

Mainly the Song of Concentration is just to coordinate with the rit so VwK doesn't get interrupted. I figure that it should pretty easily be recharged by the time the rit needs to recast VwK with 15-16 resto.

Anyway, that pretty much sums it up ^ ^ any ideas?

PS: Almost forgot about the monk build... that was my original concept for the tank, but obviously it uses enchantments...

CronkTheImpaler · Jun 20, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

looks like a workable build. some areas might cause some issues though. also not to nit pick but aside from the monk your enchantment free build has 2 enchants.

Cronk

Shrimz · Jun 20, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Your monk would get owned from enchant removal lol

Legendary Shiz · Jun 20, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

tl;dr

I did get a nice lol when I read the title and it said "enchantment free", and when I open it the monks bar is all enchants spare a PvE skill and some empty slots, not to mention echo and arcane echo are both enchants.

I also got a kick out of the "3 man farm team", only to see 4 skill bars.

Again, I didn't bother reading anything you said because of the immediate lulz factor.

Ministry Of Peace · Jun 20, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

If you read the note at the bottom, the monk is not actually part of the build, it was just something I was messing around with in team builder. Granted echo and arcane echo are enchantments, but the paragon would easily be able to run outside the range of any enchantment stripping monsters when he needs to cast those, since it only needs to be done every ~30-40 seconds. That would also help prevent interrupts. Ditto with the ranger, he would have to wander a ways away to recast QZ (if necessary) to ensure he didn't get interrupted/it doesn't get killed.

Mainly the Song of Concentration is just to coordinate with the rit so VwK doesn't get interrupted. I figure that it should pretty easily be recharged by the time the rit needs to recast VwK with 15-16 resto.

Thanks for the comments

360° · Jun 20, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

This is hands down the most creative build for a while. Can't say if it works, but the concept is interesting.

Borat X · Jun 20, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I am going to try this later

Laylat · Jun 22, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Will VwK steal health if blocked?

Ministry Of Peace · Jun 22, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

@ Laylat
Yes it will, it will also work if they miss, fail, etc. It is sort of like IW, as long as they make a swing at you, it will steal the health.

--------------------------------------------------

UPDATE: Did some testing of the Angelic Protection mechanism of the build today, and I am happy to say that it works!

Test 1:
Me as the echo/angelic prot
A friend was monking with Healing Hands (didn't have a rit with VwK, so we had to simulate it

)
Used a hero for the qz

I had him take his armor off, and aggro the large group of spiders outside sunspear great hall on hard mode. He was able to survive as long as I kept angelic prot on him, but as soon as I let it drop (lagged :/ ) he died nearly instantly.

Note that prot spirit/spirit bond were NOT used, just healing hands, healing breeze, and healing touch.

We repeated this experiment twice, with him dying both times nearly instantly as soon as angelic prot went down, regardless of healing hands (which he was able to keep up continuously due to qz).

Since my friend had 0 armor, he was able to hold ~90% of the aggro, despite me being easily within their aggro range.

Test 2:
My friend had to go, so my good friend dunkoro resumed his role

This time the testing took place in the underworld against the bladed aatxes. This didn't work as well because I lagged and didn't recast angelic prot in time, and the aatxes didn't hold aggro very well because I couldn't take dunk's armor off, but he was easily able to tank them during the ~10s that the initial angelic prot lasted, which was a good 10 aatxe hits. Satisfied with this result, and not wanting to waste any more plat on heros, I discontinued the aatxe test.

Notes:
Having tested this portion of the build, I am very optimistic that the build will work in a real setting. It is not too terribly difficult to recast angelic prot in time, as long as you don't lag too terribly much. There is a good 5s window in which you can cast it each time. A good rule of thumb is to cast it when the other copy of it is approximately half recharged.

I will try to do more extensive tests when I get more time (and it's not double rep weekend

). If you do any independent testing, be sure to let me know how it goes

Ministry Of Peace · Jun 29, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

added optional necro for extra damage, and updated some of the other builds to better fit their role.

Oblivious Moose · Jul 02, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

good anti kd skill to bring would be ["brace yourself!"] saves a slot on the tank.

N e x x u s · Jul 03, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

w00t w00t
dunno if AoS works on other Chars than the Tank too.

Ministry Of Peace · Jul 03, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Ok, me and a friend did extensive hard mode testing of this yesterday, so here goes:

Bad things first:
When echo reverts from angelic protection, it is not subject to the half recharge granted by QZ. This means that there is a 2 second gap during which angelic protection can't be kept up. Obviously this isn't a problem if you can kill mobs in 45-50 seconds reliably, however it also means that if the build is not changed, your team will likely wipe when the 50 seconds is up. Things I am considering is arcane echo to copy echo, then after the first angelic prot is running out, echo it with the arcane'd echo, which will easily fill the gaps to cast echo when it runs out, then echo the real copy of angelic prot. This would extend the tanking at least another 50 seconds, if not indefinite.

Another option is to simply take a fourth character, which I am highly considering, as it would buff the damage tremendously, as well as highly simplifying the tanking process. I'm thinking a N/P or P/N for SS. Para primary would be ideal for the extra armor and the fact that angelic prot would still be max 90 damage per second, however, energy management might be a problem.

As for the good parts, even with relatively small mobs, the tank is able to spam SY!, and we had no trouble killing the mobs in 50s, even with a single cast of SS.

We did the bulk of our testing on the bugs outside the sunspear great hall in hard mode, but I have also done testing in underworld on the aatxes. Since I had to use a hero tank I couldn't take his armor off, so he had trouble holding aggro, but he was easily able to survive the aggro he had (2-3 aatxes) until the one that leaked killed all of the support characters.

I will try to post updated versions of the builds later on tonight.

Also, thank you for the great suggestion moose, I will have to add that to the updated builds tonight

I will also try to put together an optional fourth SS build.

@ N e x x u s: AoS gives a bonus whenever you get XP from killing a NPC. So as long as you were ~in shout distance at some point before the NPC was killed, you will get XP and AoS will activate. However, AoS only activates every so often, sort of like soul reaping. If a lot of monsters die at once, it will only give one bonus.