Curse

lordheinous · Aug 12, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

I've been thinking about new team builds to use for elite areas, and I think I may have come up with at least a prototype of a new team. Keep in mind that I don't have the most experience making full team builds; most of my guildwars "adulthood" occurred during the era of ursan, so I don't have as much experience in making team builds as older players may, and that I also don't have a real "pro" guild to work or practice with, hence why I'm bringing this here. It definitely still needs polish, I've only been working on it off and on today. Any feedback, so long as its constructive, is welcome.

And on to the build:

1xThe 1 hp Orders Necro

Necromancer/Dervish

Blood Magic 12+1+3
Soul Reaping 5+3
Wind Prayers 11

Low HP Runed Armor is necessary; normal armor may be necessary in some areas, such as the Foundry in doa, and should be brought according to the situation. A staff of enchanting is good as well.

[Awaken The Blood][Cultist's Fervor][Dark Fury][Order Of Pain][Masochism][Mystic Healing][Breath Of The Great Dwarf][Faithful Intervention]

First off, THE ONLY POINT TO FAITHFUL INTERVENTION IS A LONG LASTING ENCHANTMENT. Sorry, had to make that caps or the first 5 posts would all be flames telling me how stupid I am. Basically, the usage is similar to the 1 hp bip necro: you sac yourself down to 1 hp using superior runed armor. Once that is accomplished, keep up awaken, cultist's, masochism, and dark bond. Stay as far back from battle as possible; unlike the 1 hp bip necro, all of your spells are party range, so stay back, anything will kill you with your measly 1 hp. Use Dark Fury and Order Of Pain; however, it is important to make sure that the orders go down before they go back up again, so that the dervs get the energy gain out of them (more on that later), and yet to keep that window open for as small a frame as possible. In order to accomplish this, it will probably be necessary to start casting before the order ends, but also not too soon so as to prevent the order from going down. This will likely require some practice, but I'm sure a rhythm will eventually be found; half casting time mods are not advised. Spam Mystic healing whenever possible between orders for a free lower powered Heal Party to six of your party members (making mystic heal 5 party members versus six is Faithful Intervention's only purpose, though one it fills quite well with its long duration); Breath Of The Great Dwarf fills the same purpose, and can be cast in between two mystic healings for some quick party wide healing. If the party is in serious trouble, you could also abandon casting orders altogether and just spam mystic healing, though this should only be done in emergencies, such as multiple deaths, as it would take away much of the punch of the team. Thanks to Rhamia Darigaz for coming up with Faithful Intervention for the permanent enchantment.

2xArcane Weapon Derv

Dervish/Monk

Mysticism 12+1+2
Protection Prayers 12

Full Windwalker's Armor, a staff of enchanting.

[Arcane Zeal][Watchful Intervention][Faithful Intervention][Great Dwarf Weapon][Reversal Of Fortune][Imbue Health][Aegis][Extinguish]

This dervish is gains energy from the orders necro, both through the extra enchantments for arcane zeal and the mysticism bonus for the orders ending (assuming the necro is doing their job correctly). You should keep up faithful, watchful, and arcane on yourself at all times. You should keep Great Dwarf Weapon on the frontline dervishes at all times; the 2 people running this build should agree before hand which two dervs they will apply it to, so as to reduce confusion. You should alternate Aegises as well for extra blocking most of the time. Use Watchful Intervention on other members as necessary. Imbue Health is good for a large emergency heal. Extinguish it good to reduce widespread important conditions such as blind, as left alone it will kill your team. Spam Reversal Of Fortune.

2xSave Yourselves derv

Dervish/Warrior

Scythe Mastery 12+1+1
Mysticism 12+1

Full Windwalker's Armor and a Furious Scythe of Defense with +15% damage while enchanted.

[Avatar Of Dwayna][Eternal Aura][Whirlwind Attack]["Save Yourselves!"][Eremite's Attack][Mystic Sweep][Victorious Sweep][Heart Of Fury]

This build uses the orders necro's Dark Fury combined with the scythe's aoe attack to spam SY! while at the same time getting the most out of the order damage buff and Great Dwarf Weapon with the same aoe attacks whith Whirlwind Attackto spice things up even more. Also uses the energy gained from the ending orders to power the constant spam of the three attack skills. Uses Avatar of Dwayna combined with the skill spamming to keep the player basically free of all hexes while at the same time providing significant self healing. Keep up Avatar of Dwayna with Eternal Aura; while it might seem nice to try to hit a mob of foes with 100 armor-ignoring Eternal, keep your enemies in mind; if you're facing heavy interrupts, it would probably be good to sacrifice some of the extra damage and use right before actually engaging. Make sure to call blind, as SY! spam is very important. * Not sure if two of these are actually necessary, but I thought it was better to be redundant than lacking.*

1xWild Blow Derv

Dervish/Warrior

Scythe Mastery 12+1+1
Mysticism 12+1

Full Windwalker's Armor and a Vampiric Scythe of Defense with +15% damage while enchanted.

[Avatar Of Dwayna][Eternal Aura][Whirlwind Attack][Wild Blow][Eremite's Attack][Mystic Sweep][Aura Of Holy Might][Heart Of Fury]

Same as the SY! derv, but with Wild Blow instead as stance removal. Thanks to -Lotus- for the ideas on improving this one.

1xScan Derv

Dervish/Warrior

Scythe Mastery 12+1+1
Mysticism 12+1

Full Windwalker's Armor and a Vampiric Scythe of Defense with +15% damage while enchanted.

[Avatar Of Lyssa][Eternal Aura][Radiant Scythe][Asuran Scan][Eremite's Attack][Mystic Sweep][Aura Of Holy Might][Heart Of Fury]

This player should focus on priority targets, using Asuran Scan and high damage output to quickly take them down. Thanks to -Lotus- for the ideas on improving this one.

1xMonk

Unfortunately, monks are not my strong point, one of the things you guys can help me with. Definitely needs some condition removal, though the 4 frontline dervs will take care of any hexes on themselves, so hex removal, if necessary at all, would only be needed for the monk and arcane dervs. Since there is already a good deal of healing, I would think some kind of prot would perhaps be good, but I'll leave it to the experts. Edit-It has been suggested, among other things, that perhaps the new [Unyielding Aura] be used for the monk, and I'm inclined to put this down as the monk's elite tentatively, as the good instant rezzing capabilities among other things make room on the dervs' bars for an extra skill as opposed to the rez sig that was there initially. Thanks to -Lotus- for this idea.

Please comment, and if you have a good group of friends/guildies to try this out with (I don't unfortunately

) please do so and report back with your findings. Please don't flame me if you don't think it's good either; it may in fact not be good, but at least recognize that I'm TRYING to be innovative in the vacuum left by ursan.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 12, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Since you have lots of medium strength healing going on in pretty much all your builds, and a reliable SY! I would suggest a hybrid monk (Prot/Healing) with Restore Conditions as an elite, since you currently have little way of getting rid of conditions. I would -definitly- put Patient Spirit (energy for dervs) in the build healing wise, as well as Dwayna's Kiss, as it compliments the build insanely.

You seem to have Hexes covered on your front line Dervs, but you may want to consider something like Cure/remove Hex in case one of your casters gets stuck with bad hex.

itsvictor · Aug 12, 2008, 05:15 AM // 05:15

This build has been done before, I'm too lazy to look for it. I think using Heart of Fury instead of Victorious Sweep and Avatar of Melandru as the elite will give you heartier dervs. The Arcane dervs look like a waste imo if you're going to be bringing monks (which most likely should be running the HB monk build). I'd run 4 dervs and bring a weapon rit, maintain great dwarf on three of the dervs and splinter on the other. This way it's 4 dervs, 1 weapons rit(hybrid ritualist with channeling and resto), 2 monk bacline, 1 orders(I'd reverse the order necro to D/N and change the build around though I don't have that build handy on me right now).

lordheinous · Aug 12, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

This build has been done before, I'm too lazy to look for it. I think using Heart of Fury instead of Victorious Sweep and Avatar of Melandru as the elite will give you heartier dervs. The Arcane dervs look like a waste imo if you're going to be bringing monks (which most likely should be running the HB monk build). I'd run 4 dervs and bring a weapon rit, maintain great dwarf on three of the dervs and splinter on the other. This way it's 4 dervs, 1 weapons rit(hybrid ritualist with channeling and resto), 2 monk bacline, 1 orders(I'd reverse the order necro to D/N and change the build around though I don't have that build handy on me right now).

I appreciate the feedback but I have to disagree on the orders necro; the way it is now, between [Cultist's Fervor] and [Masochism] and 1hp, all of 5e spells cost nothing and give you 3e, while your 10e spells cost 3e but give you 3e bac, effectively costing nothing as well. The only point I could see to using a derv primary would be the energy management, but as the necro as is effectively doesn't actually use energy after the initial cast, and has the 4 extra point in blood magic from rune and headpiece, there isn't really a reason to run derv primary. The energy management of the 1 hp effectively allows it to cast [Mystic Healing] spam from anywhere on the compass in between orders.

-Lotus- · Aug 12, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

BiP > Cultist's even if it's not nessicary, neither is cultist's and keeping your monks happy is a good thing.

change the form on the Scan Derv to lyssa if that one is going to be taking down priority targets. he could also use High-Damage attack skills, [Radiant Scythe] comes to mind

also, AoHM on the Dervs will Add more damage than Orders

As for a monk, Try running something with the new [Unyielding Aura] and plenty of [Healing Seed] spam.

EDIT: Where is your IAS??!?!?!

FoxBat · Aug 12, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Seriously, people are still stuck on those stupid D/Ns because they got used as a flagger once before EotN. Between masochism and Ether Renewal there are other options now.

Ben-A-BoO · Aug 12, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Seriously, people are still stuck on those stupid D/Ns because they got used as a flagger once before EotN. Between masochism and Ether Renewal there are other options now.

Great post lol
How about to enlighten us with you modern post EotN builds.

lordheinous · Aug 12, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

BiP > Cultist's even if it's not nessicary, neither is cultist's and keeping your monks happy is a good thing.

change the form on the Scan Derv to lyssa if that one is going to be taking down priority targets. he could also use High-Damage attack skills, [Radiant Scythe] comes to mind

also, AoHM on the Dervs will Add more damage than Orders

As for a monk, Try running something with the new [Unyielding Aura] and plenty of [Healing Seed] spam.

EDIT: Where is your IAS??!?!?!

Thanks for the input, I have implemented some of your suggestions. Also, the point behind the orders isn't solely the orders primary effects, but also the secondary energy management they provide party-wide to the dervs through mysticism. Also took out the res sigs on the dervs for [Heart Of Fury], assuming an [Unyielding Aura] monk will be used, just thought of this idea this morning, that there was a glaring problem isn't a surprise ><. As far as BiP goes, in the original plan, there's only one actual monk, there are also the arcane dervs, but they're getting passive e-management through the orders through mysticism/Arcane Zeal, the reason I was hesitant to use BiP in the first place is because the build as is doesn't require the necro to be within range of the monks like a BiP would have to be; its more "user friendly" as it were, as 1 hp doesn't leave much room for slip-ups, though if testing proves that BiP is more reliable, I have no problem changing it.

X Joey X · Aug 12, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Even though it is not documented Aura of Holy Might will turn your scan and wild blow derv's damage into holy so they are not affected by Order of Pain/Dark Fury. However the extra damage from the skill may be worth it, especially if the orders is designed just to help keep SY! up.

lordheinous · Aug 12, 2008, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Joey X

Even though it is not documented Aura of Holy Might will turn your scan and wild blow derv's damage into holy so they are not affected by Order of Pain/Dark Fury. However the extra damage from the skill may be worth it, especially if the orders is designed just to help keep SY! up.

Yep, that's why it wasn't in the original builds. I added it to the Scan and Wild Blow bars, scan with Aura, Great Dwarf Weapon, and Lyssa will do some pretty wild damage I would think, and the Wild Blow derv doesn't need as much constant spam with Dwayna to be clear of anti-adrenal/anti-shout hexes that the SY! dervs will, though I think that the SY! bars do need that slot open for victorious sweep to promote said spam.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 12, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

dark bond -> faithful intervention on the orders necro?

lordheinous · Aug 12, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

dark bond -> faithful intervention on the orders necro?

That is a wonderful idea; when I was looking through the skills, I'm ashamed to say I didn't consider Mysticism for the extra enchant, thanks for catching that.

Tender Care · Aug 12, 2008, 08:05 AM // 08:05

since [ursan blessing] got nerfed, i suppose dervway to elite areas could be a good idea. Avatars cannot be stripped and can be kept constantly

.
A mixed team of dervs, support paras, monks and order necro would be great.
The problem of many elite areas and are that enchantments get stripped or spike dmg (see Bladed Aatxe o_O), so the best things are those which cannot be removed------->shouts, chants, echoes, Avatars, signets.
Just for example: an [avatar of balthazar] take 100 dmg from an aatxe: a dervish without AoB take 230 +/- .......so it's a big difference.

I will study a support paragon and dervish mixed builds for hard areas, if anyone has a suggestion it's very very welcome!

-Tender Care-

-Lotus- · Aug 12, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordheinous

the reason I was hesitant to use BiP in the first place is because the build as is doesn't require the necro to be within range of the monks like a BiP would have to be; its more "user friendly" as it were, as 1 hp doesn't leave much room for slip-ups, though if testing proves that BiP is more reliable, I have no problem changing it.

actually, the necro will already be in range of your monks if your monks are actually standing on the backline. the orders will need to be that close just to be within radar-range of the frontline. your frontline should be engaging the enemies, while your monk stands a full aggro circle away casting spells and the orders stands an aggro circle behind him spamming orders so casting BiP is really no problem at all.

and my advice when running a 1hp BiP is to go /Rt so you can use [Lively Was [email protected]]. that way you can self-rez so you never have to worry about aggro falling all the way back to you.

You might also consider not running at 1hp, your really not utilizing an elite so you could run [Aura of the Lich] and a regen spell.

EDIT: as tender care mentioned, an imbagon would probably be better than the SY dervs.

daze · Aug 12, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I really like that team build, it seems like it is really built towards a team of humans. Since the number of humans that i am willing to party up with is minimal and the number of them who play derv is even less, what do you think a good H/H substitute would be?

Also
Just some friendly word of advice about avoiding the flames. I made the same mistake and now i know.
Even if you think that you developed a new concept or came up with something new, for the love of god whatever you do, Don't post anything hinting at the idea that it is your own concept. Or you will be guaranteed to receive waves of posts (most of them condescending) saying that "this has been done before" or "you aren't special because this is the most common build in all of Guild Wars" or "How could you be so dumb to think or assume that you actually came up with a good idea?"