Curse

gerg-nad · Aug 11, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

What you now see since the nerf of Ursan and the large update for ursans is a Ranger/Mesmer with a Paragon and Monks team.

Generally the builds are the following:
5 Ranger/Mesmers
[ursan blessing][arcane mimicry] possible [ether signet] other ranger and mesmer skills + rez
Minimum 7 Expertise to allow Oath Shot to recharge

1 Paragon/Ranger
[theres nothing to fear][oath shot] other good paragon shouts and chants to help protect party

2 Monk/Ele
[healers boon][seed of life][glyph of lesser energy][heal party][healing seed] and several other healing skills

So the alternative for non-ranger classes is Assassine's Promise. So same concept only mimic Assassin Promise. The risk of AP is that you have 5 seconds for the creature to die, since you have 0 attribute points in Deadly Arts.

5 Ursans/Mesmer
[ursan blessing][arcane mimicry] and a balance between damage and survival skills.

1 Paragon/Assassin
[theres nothing to fear][assassins promise] other good paragon shouts and chants to help protect party

2 Monk/Ele
[healers boon][seed of life][glyph of lesser energy][heal party][healing seed] and several other healing skills

So the idea is the same in both cases. When the Ursan comes out of form get back to it as soon as possible by instantly recharging your skill bar. The Assassin Promise would be to Hex a foe that is near death and if it dies within 5 seconds your bar will recharge. So because of this its best to balance two things on your remaining skill bar, large damage skills when foe is <50% health and survival skills such as Save Yourself (for the party, not yourself), or other such skills in case you do not get a recharge.

gigahertz205 · Aug 11, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Ursan is an elite? WIth AP, you will have two

Xebedinct · Aug 11, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

1. Ursan is dead. Use some real skills

EDIT: Bleh, I apologize for my ignorance. I just skimmed through the skills and assumed that was what you were planning. However, my first point still stands.

Snow Bunny · Aug 11, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Edit: I see how it works, but who cares. Balanced is still better.

It's humorous watching you all flail around trying to make Ursan work.

JONO51 · Aug 11, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xebedinct

1. Ursan is dead. Use some real skills

2. Ursan is a form. Arcane Mimicry won't work.

You mimic AP/Oath shot---> use it and UB is recharged....

Skeet · Aug 11, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

You Mimic Either Oath Shot or Assasin's promise once out of Ursan...therefore recharging it

DarkNecrid · Aug 11, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

and it's still pretty terrible and needs to be fixed since it's an anomaly anyways.

Hint: This is way slower than even a balanced build.

Washi · Aug 11, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigahertz205

Ursan is an elite? WIth AP, you will have two

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xebedinct

Ursan is a form. Arcane Mimicry won't work.

You guys fail at reading, stop playing games, go back to school.

srsly

gerg-nad · Aug 11, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

You guys fail at reading, stop playing games, go back to school.

srsly

Some folks failed to understand that you mimic AP or OS and use that to recharge your bar. You do nothing with mimicry and Ursan Blessing.

This still does not account for Ursan not being armor ignoring, so higher AC take a little longer to get down. Also Cons will also be needed.

Personally miss the secondary benefits of Ursan which are:
1. Team formation was simple and fast
2. Quad run in HM was very fast
3. Allowed most any character class into team

There are certainly other teams that can do DOA and you will see one posted here, the real problem I see is speed of team formation (class restricted) and possibly speed of doing HM.

TheodenKing · Aug 12, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Stick a fork in it... It's done.

BTW, since you were talking about DoA... the new non-elite status of Lightbringer Signet makes it a must have for every skillbar in DoA. The wiser players have already incorporated it.

MisterB · Aug 12, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

[Assassin's Promise] and [Oath Shot] need a minor update. Please change to "all your non-form skills." Do it, Arena Net.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

BTW, since you were talking about DoA... the new non-elite status of Lightbringer Signet makes it a must have for every skillbar in DoA. The wiser players have already incorporated it.

I don't agree with this for a warrior bar, unless you're running some kind of boring tank bar. It's a waste of a slot on a warrior bar, as it does nothing that hitting things with a zealous weapon will not do.

Mr.Kotte · Aug 12, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Edit: I see how it works, but who cares. Balanced is still better.

It's humorous watching you all flail around trying to make Ursan work.

Touché
1234567

odly · Aug 12, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Last time I checked (not so long ago, but before the last update) you could still arcanmy mimicry Ursan Blessing itself. No need for oath shot.

Ursan's just need arcane mimicry.
Some one else brings Ursan blessing and doesn't use it. (if he uses it, it's no longer on his skill bar and you cannot mimicry it anymore. This could be a minnion master for example. (they don't need an elite that badly do they ?)

Each time Ursan runs out you mimicry Ursan from the other player and reactivate it. X/me can do it, no attributes needed.

I have not tested it sonce the update, but I didn't see a mention that they changed something that would make this impossible.

Longhair · Aug 12, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Dont try to make ursan builds. Ursan was overpowered in the 1st place and really took away the challenge of the game way. Now that ursan is nerfed people can go back to using real skills. That build wont work anyway. Again dont try to bring ursan back.

Tender Care · Aug 12, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

just a little problem for [arcane mimicry] = cannot be used while ur skillbar is the ursan one....i tried it out and u cannot mimic anything, cos actually under the ursan blessings u got no elite skill!

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 12, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Care

just a little problem for [arcane mimicry] = cannot be used while ur skillbar is the ursan one....i tried it out and u cannot mimic anything, cos actually under the ursan blessings u got no elite skill!

No. You use AM when Ursan ends, snag Oath Shot from the Para/Ranger/whatever, use it, and Ursan is recharged.

This build has been on PvX for a few days already, you're a bit behind

.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Aug 12, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

It is simpler and faster to form a group this way so maybe this concept will be embraced by lots of people and become the new cookie-cutter... We'll see.

What I see here is that the potential to fail with this build is so much higher than before the nerf (and some PuGs had the ability to screw up basically anywhere in DoA). So perhaps, because this requires at least "some" form of team coordination, you'll start to find more intellegent PuGs around.

or not. lol.

briangm · Aug 12, 2008, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

No. You use AM when Ursan ends, snag Oath Shot from the Para/Ranger/whatever, use it, and Ursan is recharged.

It would seem easier to have the Paragon bring Ursan Blessing and just AM that whenever needed.

EDIT: OK, nevermind - I see from pvx that you can't mimic ursan.

gerg-nad · Aug 12, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Even after serveral people posted that you cannot mimic Elite Form and, with the update, Ursan is an elite form, many folks still don't seem to get it.

You mimic a recharge skill to instantly alow Ursan to come back once you are out of form. Oath Shot is only assured for Rangers, so Assassin Promise could be used for the rest of the classes, but still has risk.

I see there are a number of Ursan haters, which I would say at one point I was a bit of one too. I was one of the first to say ok, press skill 1, 2, 3, 4 and repeat, duh. The real challenge in Ursan was the "Leroy Effect". That is, there seemed to always be this one Ursan that would aggro the whole map or too fast for the monks energy to recover.

I am not necessarily trying to bring back Ursan, I just want a team, call it cookie cutter if you like, that forms quickly and have a high probability of success and is as fast as Ursan. Ursan was less restrictive of character class than most team builds.

I played DOA a lot before EoTN using the traditional trinity team and was one of the first teams to conquor Mallyx after the door glitch was fixed. I played all classes for those teams as well (SB, HB, Bonder monk, Obby, BIP, Ele and Necro) and most often played with folks on Vent or Team Speak. Have played modified Imbagon teams throughout DOA as well as Famine, etc. Soon after EoTN high rank Ursan was introduced, which significantly spead things up, including team formation, as well as allowed many different classes to participate.

I enjoy playing with real people and challenging areas. So as history has shown, you need a build folks can quickly form into or you will be waiting a long time or if you take a "hoj poj" team your chances of success are pretty low. So if you want to revitalize DOA again, we need a build that has a good probability of success, is not too difficult, and allows a wide range of character classes to participate. I see there are folks trying the traditional Sac MS Eleway, Ritway, Cryway, but if you have too many ways then team formation will slow down and availability of players will be limited.

DarkNecrid · Aug 12, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

I am not necessarily trying to bring back Ursan, I just want a team, call it cookie cutter if you like, that forms quickly and have a high probability of success. Ursan was less restrictive of character class than most team builds.

There are a shit ton of cookie cutter builds before Ursan that worked in DoA and formed quickly and had a high probability of success if you didn't decide to use your crotch instead of your hands.

True story.

EDIT:
Also PUGs suck and want to do everything in a way. Get some friends or a guild which doesn't suck & does elite areas. You don't need any of those things to beat DOA, just brains.