Curse

ragnagard · Dec 03, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I will sometimes see a dropped item appear BEFORE the monster that drops it dies.

I know lag can account for something dying before I see it die, but how does the item display before the monsters death displays? First time it happened, I thought it was an odd lag issue. I even commented about it to a friend who was in the zone with me. Since then, I see it about 1 time per run.

Yeah I also noticed that sometimes, and i could not explain it but... just happens. Mmm I can almost say that sometimes I see a text(¿name?) and no items dropped... just like i was going to get it and.. a big hole just eat it hehe. Maybe i just see a "XXX corpse" and I dream about items haha.

And if you use aoe skills like crystal wave / tenhai, inferno, etc... you can just note the "lag" produced and the drop... sometimes even if there is no drop or too low. weird haha

Chico · Dec 04, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

vewy intewesting

That means one can probably know or guess if he's going to get good drops by watching how for example the first mob is layed out?
I'm gonna start taking a snapshot of the first mob whenever I enter an area.

I think the system behind all these coincidences is that maybe what you manage to do when you enter at the same time is to get the same random seed that distributes the drops. If this is all true it would also explain why we do get 1/8th or so of drops in an area but _only_ if we clear it completely.

Oh, and this also would be proof of all loot being pre-generated server side as you enter a zone as a few other posts have also mentioned. Excellent discovery.

great sir s · Dec 04, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Awesome discovery, and what zone is this btw that your farming?

nechronius · Dec 04, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

I believe it. This doesn't surprise me one bit. Using Time as a randon number generator seed is quite common.

The reason you can fairly easily pull this off is that you and your brother probably live under the same roof and share the same connection, thereby most likely connecting to the same server. I suspect this would be much harder to do if you lived in different geographical locations where servers may have different Timing but you would also be connecting to different server IPs.

I Will Avenge You · Dec 04, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

The drops are almost identical... and you guys were solo-ing it; meaning in the different instance.

So how in the world did those drops line up??????

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

The reason you can fairly easily pull this off is that you and your brother probably live under the same roof and share the same connection, thereby most likely connecting to the same server.

Before dropping the game for a while, me and my roomates back in '05 used to race in UW smite runs. I swear to you our drops were anything but linear.....
There's always a generic one person hits jackpot, few of us would get average drops and maybe one person or two get nada

Main question : Did you guys sync when entering instance?????

I got so many questions in my head now after looking at the comparisons

Armond · Dec 04, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

The reason you can fairly easily pull this off is that you and your brother probably live under the same roof and share the same connection, thereby most likely connecting to the same server. I suspect this would be much harder to do if you lived in different geographical locations where servers may have different Timing but you would also be connecting to different server IPs.

He mentioned above that that wasn't the case.

Skinny Corpse · Dec 04, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

The reason you can fairly easily pull this off is that you and your brother probably live under the same roof and share the same connection, thereby most likely connecting to the same server. I suspect this would be much harder to do if you lived in different geographical locations where servers may have different Timing but you would also be connecting to different server IPs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny Corpse

That's right, we're not on the same router, not even the same ISP.

And even if on the same ISP & router etc I think it would be equally tricky.

manitoba1073 · Dec 04, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

That is why I said Min Chos Estate. Not only is it easier to sync but the mobs are ALWAYS identical. That is where you need to be doing the actual testing.

Skinny Corpse · Dec 04, 2007, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

That is why I said Min Chos Estate. Not only is it easier to sync but the mobs are ALWAYS identical. That is where you need to be doing the actual testing.

Do you mean the mission? I tried it yesterday and it gets to the point where
Togo wants you to wait for the mobs to split up., then they both get themselves killed and mission fails.
Or do you mean the explorable area?

And identical mobs is not really an advantage, rather the opposite imo.

van · Dec 04, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Ok this is how I see the Game of Guild Wars drop rates. When you load up the instance "So in this case Farahnur, The First City" A package or grouping of loot is loaded unto the monsters. The Packages are determined by a random program that proably why, I will Avenge You, One guy got better loot then the rest of you five. The package would have to be relevent to the monster so no dropping of heket axes off of a Restless Corpse. Now this might be a bit much to ask but could you possibly show a time counter or some sort of a clock?

KartMan · Dec 04, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny Corpse

Do you mean the mission? I tried it yesterday and it gets to the point where
Togo wants you to wait for the mobs to split up., then they both get themselves killed and mission fails.
Or do you mean the explorable area?

And identical mobs is not really an advantage, rather the opposite imo.

I think you need to take necrotic traversal or consume corpse to avoid having togo and his fellow to follow you
also it's true that the mob in the beginning are exactly the same (so you cannot really check if both are synchronized or not), they differ at the end, with rit + el instead of war only

vespertine · Dec 04, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by van

Ok this is how I see the Game of Guild Wars drop rates. When you load up the instance "So in this case Farahnur, The First City" A package or grouping of loot is loaded unto the monsters. The Packages are determined by a random program that proably why, I will Avenge You, One guy got better loot then the rest of you five. The package would have to be relevent to the monster so no dropping of heket axes off of a Restless Corpse. Now this might be a bit much to ask but could you possibly show a time counter or some sort of a clock?

well.. this can be proved as WRONG. example is the hero lutgardis FFF.. you can send the heros via u-map to certain points outside your radar and NO mobs will spawn..

from a software-design point-of-view it would be quite stupid to create instances (of mobs/loot-pools/whatever) which are never used afterwards..

KartMan · Dec 04, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by vespertine

well.. this can be proved as WRONG. example is the hero lutgardis FFF.. you can send the heros via u-map to certain points outside your radar and NO mobs will spawn..

from a software-design point-of-view it would be quite stupid to create instances (of mobs/loot-pools/whatever) which are never used afterwards..

no mobs ? you sure about that ? isn't it rather shadow form that makes you believe that ?

for your second point, what would you prefer ?
10 sec of loading (generating etc), and then play a smooth game ?
or
no loading, 1 sec of loading (lag included) everytime you move to a new spot ?
another reason I think it is pregenerated is that gw is a client-server game, the generation is made by the server, imagine that if the server had to generate things on-the-fly, multiply it by the number of instance it has to handle, it will have far more workload than if it was done one-time only per instance.
my 2 cts ^^

gw_poster · Dec 04, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny Corpse

This happens to me too once in a while, more frequent when using SoJ it seems.
I never thought much about it but I definitely agree with you, good point.

I even caught it on film in a clip I did to show how retarded the cutthroats look when
they're slammed to the ground by SoJ. Cracks me up every time.

I use SoJ a lot and that pre-death fall drop seems to happen most often with corsairs...the drop flops up in the air and they're still standing, lol.. About the drop rate discussion, though - I've often wondered the following: Is it possible that each day starts with a 'pool' of rare (gold, unique, etc.) drops, meaning a total number available drops for all monsters? Hard for me to explain in computer terms, as I am not a programmer type, but what I mean is does each monster type have a certain number of drops that can be done that day...for example, aataxes are loaded with a number of ecto..when that number is reached, they stop dropping ecto, then that pool of ecto is loaded again the next day. The reason I wonder this is because it seems as though on 'slower' days/times (Tuesday evening, for example), I get lots of gold/rare drops, ecto, etc. as opposed to Saturday afternoon, where there are presumably more people logged on (and presumably getting more drops), thus the worse rate of golds/rares. Don't flame the lame...but, forgive me if this sounds totally naive and ignorant, but I was a liberal arts major - known for illogical/abstract thinking...lol.

Just a thought...good work Skinny, btw...

Skinny Corpse · Dec 04, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

I use SoJ a lot and that pre-death fall drop seems to happen most often with corsairs...the drop flops up in the air and they're still standing, lol.. About the drop rate discussion, though - I've often wondered the following: Is it possible that each day starts with a 'pool' of rare (gold, unique, etc.) drops, meaning a total number available drops for all monsters? Hard for me to explain in computer terms, as I am not a programmer type, but what I mean is does each monster type have a certain number of drops that can be done that day...for example, aataxes are loaded with a number of ecto..when that number is reached, they stop dropping ecto, then that pool of ecto is loaded again the next day. The reason I wonder this is because it seems as though on 'slower' days/times (Tuesday evening, for example), I get lots of gold/rare drops, ecto, etc. as opposed to Saturday afternoon, where there are presumably more people logged on (and presumably getting more drops), thus the worse rate of golds/rares. Don't flame the lame...but, forgive me if this sounds totally naive and ignorant, but I was a liberal arts major - known for illogical/abstract thinking...lol.

Just a thought...good work Skinny, btw...

Maybe some abstract thinking is what we need?

And actually I'm not sure it's totally out there. People have noticed a decrease
in good drops in numberous areas for quite som time, but what and why is still
speculations mostly. A recent example is the raptor farm in Riven Earth. Rata Sum is flooded with E/A, A/E etc and
there's been complaints about a drastic decrease in drops.
As for my own experience; when I see a lot of Mo/D doing the colossal farm
it tends to drops a bit less good stuff.
But what, why and how is yet to find out.. we'll have to plan some new experiments I guess.

mystical nessAL · Dec 04, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Hmmm...Hard to believe.

vespertine · Dec 04, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by KartMan

no mobs ? you sure about that ? isn't it rather shadow form that makes you believe that ?

for your second point, what would you prefer ?
10 sec of loading (generating etc), and then play a smooth game ?
or
no loading, 1 sec of loading (lag included) everytime you move to a new spot ?
another reason I think it is pregenerated is that gw is a client-server game, the generation is made by the server, imagine that if the server had to generate things on-the-fly, multiply it by the number of instance it has to handle, it will have far more workload than if it was done one-time only per instance.
my 2 cts ^^

yes, i'm absolutely sure about the FFF thing.. cause SF wears off way before they reach their destiny (actually while they WOULD run through enemy groups if you were with them)..

the workload is not the problem, but the memory that is required.. take fow/uw or other large areas as an example.. instead of creating data for ~400-500 mobs at instance creation they just create them on-demand (let's say in bunches of probably 5-50 at a time)..

i, for my part don't beliefe the thesis by the OP is true (no offense, but there are just too many attention-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs in the net) until confirmed/proved by other users..

KartMan · Dec 04, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by vespertine

yes, i'm absolutely sure about the FFF thing.. cause SF wears off way before they reach their destiny (actually while they WOULD run through enemy groups if you were with them)..

the workload is not the problem, but the memory that is required.. take fow/uw or other large areas as an example.. instead of creating data for ~400-500 mobs at instance creation they just create them on-demand (let's say in bunches of probably 5-50 at a time)..

i, for my part don't beliefe the thesis by the OP is true (no offense, but there are just too many attention-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs in the net) until confirmed/proved by other users..

ok you were right, my bad, I just made a small test and it's true that ennemies don't spawn if you don't get within radar range I think, I suppose that it's to save memory.
I guess that means that for a given instance, a seed is created and stored somewhere when the instance is generated, and then each monster that is generated later uses that common seed, so if between 2 instances you have the same seed, then you'll probably get nearly the same drops, as we see in the OP

Ken34 · Dec 04, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny Corpse

Maybe some abstract thinking is what we need?

And actually I'm not sure it's totally out there. People have noticed a decrease
in good drops in numberous areas for quite som time, but what and why is still
speculations mostly. A recent example is the raptor farm in Riven Earth. Rata Sum is flooded with E/A, A/E etc and
there's been complaints about a drastic decrease in drops.
As for my own experience; when I see a lot of Mo/D doing the colossal farm
it tends to drops a bit less good stuff.
But what, why and how is yet to find out.. we'll have to plan some new experiments I guess.

I dunno, outside of bergen hot springs probably has the most consistent amount of farmers at one time, i dont see any other outpost filled with just monks like that one, but yet the drops are still pretty good consistently.

Skinny Corpse · Dec 04, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken34

I dunno, outside of bergen hot springs probably has the most consistent amount of farmers at one time, i dont see any other outpost filled with just monks like that one, but yet the drops are still pretty good consistently.

Indeed..
..but what would happen if you were there all alone?
Would there be a difference?
Would the drops be even better?
That's what I'm curious about.
But as the Springs is constantly packed with farmers it's not really possible to find out tho.