Curse

Linksys · Oct 03, 2007, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I'm not sure how to make a complete guide to doing Hero/Hench FFF and it would take a lot of time. And I could find out that someone has already done it somewhere else on the internet. There are probably guild and alliance websites and forums where this has been done.

But many people have different methods for this so I guess we can share ours here. One thing I get a lot of is people in the Lutgardis outpost who constantly ask to tag along with someone's hero fff. I can't let them in mine because I don't really do run after run constantly. So I'm not gonna have someone in my party meaning I'm stuck at the keyboard and have to go on and on nonstop to keep the other person happy. Plus there are the incidents that has already happened like a legendary survivor title seeker who seemed to have an uncontrollable impulse to hurry things up by going thru the portal when not everyone was ready. No matter how many times I told him that only I am to go thru the portal both ways, he did it anyways. Needless to say, I kicked him and never let him in again. After other incidents with other people, I no longer invite people.

But I am glad to help people figure it out themselves. I can't do this in the game for everyone, one on one, one person at a time. Well I can, but I'm not about to. Instead I'll advise them to come along to this post and figure it out themselves.

Anyways, I'll start out with where to flag the heroes. Observe this image:

This is where the heroes end up when the reach their spots, as shown by the flags. This is not the compass map. This is the map you see by pressing the U key, which you can stretch out like shown here.

For anyone who has tried to flag a hero to stairs but it didn't work, flag the hero first to the little island on the way. Depending on which run skills you have on the hero, by the time the hero reaches the island is when you then re-flag it to the stairs.

This is where to flag the shore running. You'll have to look closely. When you move the mouse cursor over the U map, the pointer is bronze color and the point of the arrow is the exact spot where the hero will run and stop at. When the flag appears, the exact pinpoint spot is not the bottom of the flag pole like some may think it is(it would be easier if it was programmed like that though). I drew a red arrow pointing where to pinpoint the flag spot.

The stairs is tricky to flag. Some people try to flag the actual stairs themselves and often end up probably flagging a solid wall. I just flag the water right above the stairs. The red arrow shows where. The water goes up like a street and ends in a culdesac. I myself just flag the bottom part of the culdesac, but still in the water. It will still capture that spot.

This is how I flag the mushroom. I just position it in a way so it's like the flag is sticking out of the rock like a candle on a cupcake. It's just the way that became routine and I'm sure someone else can explain this one better. But this works for me.

For the bridge, any spot after the bridge is fine. I wouldn't flag the bridge itself because it may end up flagging the water under it. Just flag it like shown in the image and it will be fine. I send the henches Devona and Lukas there.

I first flag the three heros. Then I use the all-flags flag for the bridge, which by effect sends the henches. The heroes will stay where they are since they're still individually flagged.

As for the builds the heros use, it varies from person to person. My FFF character does not have any ranger heroes. If I take the time to get two or even three ranger heroes, my runs will go from just under a minute to surely a bit faster. But I'm fine with what I have now.

R/A heros can use Shadow Form, Dash, and throw in all other run skills in there. You manually control the skill bars of the heros. You can alternate Dash and other run skills. Just do Dash again right when it reloads, anything else in between. Any 33% run skills(Dodge and Zojuns Haste) can be done longer than 8 seconds.

A/R heros are good too, but can only use Dodge and Zojuns for 5 seconds. Still worth doing and throw in all other run skills you have available.

Anything/A will work too. Shadow Form, Dark Escape and Dash. Warriors have another run skill to use too.

Send the fastest runner to stairs, which it's the longest run.

When figuring this out, do one hero at a time. Eventually you'll develop a routine for doing them all at the same time. I go something like this, if this makes sense:

Flag 1, Flag 2 island, Flag 3, henches(Devona will usually do "Charge!"), Shadow form, Shadow form, Shadow form, Dash, Dash, Dash, run skill, run skill, run skill, dash, dash, dash, dash, run skill, reflag 2 to stairs, run skill, run skill, and keep alternating dash and any run skill on stair runner

You should also figure out a layout/interface that makes the mouse clicking easiest. Where to position the hero skill bars, U map, and compass(the compass holds the flags, I put my U map right under it). This will vary person to person.

Anyone feel free to add your images, tips, and info. Screen shots of hero builds for this would be great.

SotiCoto · Oct 03, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Wait... Are you saying you get the heroes alone to do ALL the running while you just stand there and wait for them to finish?

I can't see the images so I can't tell....
... but it doesn't look fast at all. It looks like it could be quite a lengthy and awkward process....

PERSONALLY.... I solo FFF with heroes in a very different way. My standard build is A/D .... though theoretically ANY class can do the run. I just prefer doing it the fastest way:
[skill]Pious Haste[/skill][skill]Dash[/skill][skill]Dark Escape[/skill][skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill][skill]Shadow of Haste[/skill] Two totally optional. Healing skills are nice for emergencies, but not necessary.

#1. Bring 3 heroes, no henchies, and no res skills. In case they get in trouble, Warriors or Paragons with high armour are the best choices.

#2. From the start of Melandru's Hope.... all-flag the heroes on the map over to the bridge. Just drop the flag on the far side of the bridge and leave the heroes to their running.

#3. Sprint off the other way, alternating Dash and Pious Haste for optimum speed... sticking to the upper path to the north until the split, then the lower path up to the two Mantises. If done correctly, Pious Haste should just have run out before you reach them.

#4. Deadly Paradox > Shadow Form > Run past the two mantises with Dash.... then Dark Escape. Cut immediately down the beach and make an as-the-crow-flies path to get around the ramp in the water and on the way toward the steps. Use Dash after Dark Escape wears off and resume standard fast-running.

#5. Activate Shadow of Haste at the bank (leading up toward the mushrooms) and head through the water down the side-passage to the steps. Go up about two or three steps then turn the camera to the right and activate Dash.

#6. Health should be coming back from after Shadow Form. Either run (Dash/PH) through aggro range of the nearest group on your way to the mushrooms to stop regen... or control with Vampiric weapons. Run straight to the point inbetween the mushrooms and inbetween all the big groups.... and aggro to die quickly. IF you decide to play it safe and go up with full health, simply cycle: Shadow Form > Pious Haste > Dash to instantly smash health down for easy self-sac.

#7. While waiting for resurrect, de-flag the heroes.

#8. Run to the questie and pick up the reward, head back to Lutgardis, repeat.

Now.... I know I was being rather specific with skills.... but I've managed to do this with a Water Elementalist using nothing more fancy than Armor of Mist and slowing down on the route to avoid aggroing any groups. If taken more slowly (rather than running through under Shadow Form), it can be done by anyone with any speed boost sans problem for the sacrifice of less than a minute.
Naturally... Assassin primary is the best choice... followed by Dervish. I have no idea why people run as Rangers since ranger running skills have low duration and high recharge for the most part (nothing compares to Pious Haste for constant 33% run speed at 0 Mysticism).

[I might add pictures later if you're interested, but I'm at work now and reciting from memory.]

Mickey · Oct 03, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I can do it in 45 secs, but I've done the run over 2000 times. It's awkward at first, but when you get used to it, it's around as fast as regular FFF, because you don't have to wait for people.

SotiCoto · Oct 03, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

I can do it in 45 secs, but I've done the run over 2000 times. It's awkward at first, but when you get used to it, it's around as fast as regular FFF, because you don't have to wait for people.

45 seconds?! o_0;

Using his method?
Alright... you win.
My method takes just under 2 minutes a time.

The undead Mesmer · Oct 04, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

The heroes all run to their location and BAM instant quest reward (I have done it before with a guildie who was learning it) fastest way of getting faction in the game nothing can beat it

daky · Oct 04, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Yes an average time for my hff is 45-50sec a run 35min. to get 10k IMO its faster then any human team...no rez and no idiots to screw an entire party.

Linksys · Oct 04, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Yes it is faster. I've been with someone who did it in what seemed like 45 seconds per run. Start, wait 45 seconds, get quest and reward. And redo.

holababe · Oct 04, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

I tried the wiki build but it was confusing

This seems much better!!

Antithesis · Oct 04, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Thanks Linksys, will give it a crack. If you could post the skills template codes that'd be helpful.

odly · Oct 04, 2007, 07:35 AM // 07:35

/impressed.

I have a hard time remembering the runs when I run them myself. (Don't do it that often)
Having heroe's do it ... Well I'm impressed.

Linksys · Oct 04, 2007, 08:03 AM // 08:03

For my a/r hero, I use:

Dash, Natural Stride, Storm Chaser, Dark Escape, Shadow Form, empty, Dodge, Zojun's Haste.

For my Koss hero, I use:

Dash, Sprint, Dark Escape, empty, Shadow Form, empty, empty, empty

My Mo/A hero has:

Dash, Dark Escape, empty, empty, Shadow Form, empty, empty, empty.

I put all att points on shadow arts. And all on strength for the warrior and wilderness for the assassin/ranger.

For ranger/assassin heros, max up expertise for the 33% faster run skills.

Obviously I send the monk to shore. If I bother to get more heros on my FFF character, I can get a ranger or two and make the runs faster.

I put Dash on the first slot on all the heroes and stack the skill bars on top of each other(with space between so I can see which run stances are active). That way I can click on Dash on all three one after another. Same reason I put Shadow Form on the 5th square on all three skill bars.

Here are my hero skill bars. Again, it's not the optimum set up. A better set up is two rangers and any other hero(the third would run shore, which is a short distance). Or better yet, three rangers or two rangers and an assassin. That way if the stair runner dies, which can happen every now and then, you can let the shore runner reach shore, then send it to stairs. If you take the quest too early and the Luxon pop up at the stairs kills the stair runner, you can send the mushroom runner there.

When the heroes get past the enemies you see right away, they will not encounter any more enemies. Only human gamers will spawn them. If you have a friend die and watch, they'll see. If you die and watch, you can see until you're rezzed by the shrine. If you bring a friend, you can stay dead and watch(good to practice this way!). Just send the henches first so they don't rez you.

If you watch, again you'll see that there are no enemies out in the map beyond your range. That's why you always use Shadow Form early at the start so that the heroes pass the enemies you see in your range. The only enemies they'll encounter beyond is the boss at the stairs(which won't matter because the hero will be at the spot anyways) and the Luxon pop ups if you take the quest too early.

It's usually okay to take the quest a moment or two before the stair runner is done. The runner will usually make it anyways. That way you can finish and get the reward moment it's done. Or you can play it safe and take the reward when the run's been done for probably 5 or more seconds.

Oh yeah, may as well put the heros on Avoid Combat.

Put a superior Shadow Arts rune on the assassin/ranger.

Superior Expertise runes on any ranger heros.

Superior Strength on warrior heroes if you use one. And add some energy runes like Radiant and Attunement since they don't have much energy or energy regeneration.

Have them hold anything that gives them plus 20% enchantment for Shadow Form. If you have all the /bonus weapons on your account, that's perfect so you don't have to hunt down any Totem Axes or enchant staff wrappings.

SotiCoto · Oct 04, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linksys

When the heroes get past the enemies you see right away, they will not encounter any more enemies. Only human gamers will spawn them. If you have a friend die and watch, they'll see. If you die and watch, you can see until you're rezzed by the shrine. If you bring a friend, you can stay dead and watch(good to practice this way!). Just send the henches first so they don't rez you.

I've noticed it when I flagged Heroes to the Bridge before. It seemed odd that most of the time they didn't encounter any trouble at all, when I can't get to the bridge without aggroing something (usually)...

So are you saying that if I flagged my heroes to the Stairs.... in one go... just one click on the U-map.... and they ran straight across the middle of the lake.... that they wouldn't run into Chkkr Locustlord and his cronies at all?

Linksys · Oct 04, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

For some reason the boss will be there. If the hero is close enough to it, it will be attacked and killed by it. If you flag the stair runner directly to the middle of the round water area above the stairs, this will happen but the hero will still capture the Stairs spot. I usually flag the lower part and usually the hero won't be attacked.

SotiCoto · Oct 04, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linksys

For some reason the boss will be there. If the hero is close enough to it, it will be attacked and killed by it. If you flag the stair runner directly to the middle of the round water area above the stairs, this will happen but the hero will still capture the Stairs spot. I usually flag the lower part and usually the hero won't be attacked.

I'm not so concerned about the Rit boss.
It is Chkkr Locustlord... the Sin in the middle lake... that I'd be concerned about.
Both the Stairs runner and Shrooms runner need to get past him somehow.

Star Gazer · Oct 04, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

very nice...ill try this when I get home

Linksys · Oct 04, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I'm not so concerned about the Rit boss.
It is Chkkr Locustlord... the Sin in the middle lake... that I'd be concerned about.
Both the Stairs runner and Shrooms runner need to get past him somehow.

Hmm, I'm aware of those bosses but I've never had any problem with them. I've never had a mushroom runner die. Sometimes a shore runner, stair runner, or both may get stuck in front of the slope they have to run to the right of to enter the water. Also the enemies will follow them for a little bit beyond your range. Sometimes things will happen and success isn't 100% out of any large number of runs. But with practice any incidents won't happen too often.

Just remember to flag the stairs runner to the little island on the way first, then at a certain moment(which depends on which run skills you're using on that hero's skill bar) flag him to the water above the stairs.

Also, when sending the shore and stair runner at the same time, you'll see this on the compass:

You see the red arrow I drew with Photoshop pointing to those runners. When they are that close to the two enemies(red dots above), that's when you'll want to click on Shadow Form for both those heroes. Make them get no closer than that before Shadow Form. Otherwise the enemies may throw a hex on a runner. There are three hexes that may happen. One of them makes a hero run 50% slower. The other is Conjure Nightmare, which won't really matter. The other is some damage on hit hex or something which doesn't matter either.

MercenaryKnight · Oct 05, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Just so everyone knows at guildwiki, theirs a texmod that adds dots to your minimap for areas of which to flag your heroes. Not needed by pros but helpful to beginners who aren't quite sure where to flag them.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 05, 2007, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Two questions:

Are you as the human, just doing door? i'd prefer not using hench and running one point myself.

And... i take it your micro'ing Shadow Form etc. Well, how do you know when they are just about to aggro a mob? Bit late to put it on when you've seen them hit by crippling anguish

Linksys · Oct 05, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

When the heroes run, it's different because you activate their Shadow Form at the start of their run. You can see the image of the compass above. When the two runners(I drew a red arrow pointing at them) are that close as shown in the pic to the enemies above, that's when you'll want to click on their Shadow Form on their skill bars. Sometimes the enemies won't be there, but you'll want to do it anyways.

As for being the "door," there isn't a door role. No human gamers die in this method. You don't map back after you get the reward. Well, you could if you're going solo with heroes and henches but I usually just go thru the portal so I don't have to click the button to return to the outpost. Just easier to run thru the portal.

If you mean do you just stay where you are, yes you just stand where you are when you appear. You yourself don't run anywhere. When the heroes finish, just get the quest, then the reward, then zone to start another one.

___________________________________

On a side note, if you're in the American district 1 at Lutgardis a lot, you'll see a person who is always standing afk by the portal to Melandru's Hope. I won't say his username but if you do FFF a lot, you probably know who I'm talking about. I thought he was just standing there to get famous or something. But I wonder if he's just planted there for bots. Not saying that's the case. The bots I've seen walk to the sign post. But it may be easier to program a bot to go "return, up arrow, return" which would make the chat box input "/invite person's name," then hit Spacebar to run right up to him. Then forward thru the portal.

I'm hoping this isn't the case with him. He may be standing there for everyone else to target him and hit space. It's a nice luxury that takes away the repetitiveness of navigating up the lower steps and to the portal manually. Just target and hit space. But if Anet looks for bots that highlight him and run direct to him, it may not be wise to do that.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 05, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Wait, so you mean that any monsters beyond your compass range won't spawn, except for bosses?!